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Thread: Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title?

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I agree. Look at how many times Patrick Chan has landed his two quads, only to trip up on easier elements later in the program. Or Jeremy Abbott -- by falling on his opening quad attempt the whole program goes down the tube. If he left out the quad he could probably land his other jumps and score pretty well.

    Ftank Carroll, in his interview with Jennifer Kirk and David Leash, ws asked whether Lysacek (should he return to competition) would need to do multiple quads to keep up with the standard set by the other guys. He said, no, he doesn't need multiple quads, he needs one quad done beautifully.

    I think Frank Carroll is right. If someone can land two quads in the short and four in the long, good for him. But if the rest of the program suffers he will give back a lot of those points.



    What does Rodnina think the Russian Federation should have "stepped in" and done?



    No, not at all. I thought he (Lysacek) skated with intensity and verve.
    Two quad -too much risk. I wonder how many quads will be in the Olympic programs. In 2002 wasn't question, had to do two quads in LP.... In 2006 one quad was enough to win....

    I have no idea, what does Rodnina think... maybe should have protested?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I don't know what "scrappy" landing means? What was the problem with it? Was it worse than Lysaceks landing on his 2nd 3a?

    Maximizing points was not about doing what you are capable of doing the best. It's about not doing all you are capable of but rather choosing jumps that are smart to do in a smart place. Plushenko was capable of doing a quad but shouldn't have done one because they were not omg Amazing anymore even though in 2010 they were better than the ones In 2006 especially in the sp. The smart thing to do was go below what you are capable of do easier things the best to get goe. So my lp for plushenko would have no quad - neither the sp would have one. His lp would have looked like his 2005 worlds qualifying skate where he put s 3a in the second half. He showed total cop savvy in his 2005 worlds qualifying skate but when he could do the quad again he stopped being so savvy. And the rules in 2010 demanded he be smarter because he wasnt so in shape. So he stops all quads does 3/5 layout and spends quad time on spins and steps. You don't do what your capable of - you don't take risks- not in Vancouver you didn't!! He was capable of the quad but people were like "oh he's coming down so heavy! There's little flow out! Its so ugly I shouldn't count!" so he should have taken it out. 3lz/3toe would have been smarter for him.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtY1CuAbLgs&t=4m5s A scrappy landing means a landing that is still not as bad as a fall/stepout/hand-down but still scratchy and poor -- in this case, Plushenko landed on his inside edge (and had an off-axis air position) which rightfully lead to -GOE.

    It wasn't that Plushenko wasn't credited for doing quads. It was his quads that actually elevated him over the field... if you had Lysacek/Takahashi/Chan/Lambiel/Plushenko all do programs without quads, and only 3A's, if every one of them skated cleanly, Plushenko would have been 4th or 5th because his program itself was less difficult and the other elements were inferior to those guys. Really, what earned Plushenko the silver was including the quad, and I don't think he lost the gold because he had them (I think he just expected to win the gold if he had them and assumed things like if he skated clean he would get PCS marks that were mountains higher than the rest of the field).

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtY1CuAbLgs&t=4m5s A scrappy landing means a landing that is still not as bad as a fall/stepout/hand-down but still scratchy and poor -- in this case, Plushenko landed on his inside edge (and had an off-axis air position) which rightfully lead to -GOE.

    It wasn't that Plushenko wasn't credited for doing quads. It was his quads that actually elevated him over the field... if you had Lysacek/Takahashi/Chan/Lambiel/Plushenko all do programs without quads, and only 3A's, if every one of them skated cleanly, Plushenko would have been 4th or 5th because his program itself was less difficult and the other elements were inferior to those guys. Really, what earned Plushenko the silver was including the quad, and I don't think he lost the gold because he had them (I think he just expected to win the gold if he had them and assumed things like if he skated clean he would get PCS marks that were mountains higher than the rest of the field).
    But that was a mistake. Because you bash and relentless attack the quality of all the jumps and lots do. So if Plushenko didn't do a quad and expend that energy on quads maybe all the jumps would have been better overall. That would not have been a guarantee of course but he spends the energy and mental and physical strength to do a quad triple but what if that had not been a factor. He does a 3lz 3toe and 3axel 3 toe and gets all +3 GOE? Then he does all the rest of the jumps in the second half of the program and he gets the bonus and +GOE on all them too? That is what the whole idea of him being smart would have meant eliminating the quad triple from his free skate and maybe the SP as well. He does a quad but most say it is not perfect and amazing and give him zero or negative GOE on it so then it worth less. And the energy spend on that means he tilts in the air but has a fine landing on his first 3A? What if he never did that quad triple? People are totally discounting his quad triple as an element that was worth doing but it effects everything else. The quad may have lead to silver but eliminating it and doing triples better was good for GOLD! Going for gold was the point and maybe doing no quads was better for that goal. Worlds 2008 and 2009 and then the Olympics 2010 showed quads done was stupid! Quads did not elevate him over the field because even though he did them they were not COP smart! They did not lead to even a lead on TES! So no quad training means more training for spins and maybe halfway point bonus jumps. There was a theme and a trend he misread the theme and trend. He does quads but they don't get the points because theyre not OMG amazing! and don't get GOE! So he has program frontloaded to do 4/3 3A 3A+2t so he can use the adrenaline created for the big jumps but even though they are done and nearly textbook he has slight tilts in the air so they get some negative GOE as well. He was dumb to include quads. Misread the system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Two quad -too much risk. I wonder how many quads will be in the Olympic programs. In 2002 wasn't question, had to do two quads in LP.... In 2006 one quad was enough to win....

    I have no idea, what does Rodnina think... maybe should have protested?
    Olympic competitions are absolutely different level then Worlds, I would assume to skate clean max one quad plus two 3A in LP. IF quad value is not much higher than in 2010, we might see some skaters play safe in SP and go without quad.
    To win gold in Sochi, Plushenko can afford couple mistakes, for Chan he needs Plushenko to have more then 2-3 mistakes. I wish they skate back to back so everybody see the difference!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bestskate8 View Post
    Olympic competitions are absolutely different level then Worlds, I would assume to skate clean max one quad plus two 3A in LP. IF quad value is not much higher than in 2010, we might see some skaters play safe in SP and go without quad.
    To win gold in Sochi, Plushenko can afford couple mistakes, for Chan he needs Plushenko to have more then 2-3 mistakes. I wish they skate back to back so everybody see the difference!
    sigh... go Plushy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bestskate8 View Post
    Olympic competitions are absolutely different level then Worlds, I would assume to skate clean max one quad plus two 3A in LP. IF quad value is not much higher than in 2010, we might see some skaters play safe in SP and go without quad.
    To win gold in Sochi, Plushenko can afford couple mistakes, for Chan he needs Plushenko to have more then 2-3 mistakes. I wish they skate back to back so everybody see the difference!
    What are you talking about?! Quad value has already been raised and set the following season after 2010 Olympics. I don't think it will change again next season. So there is no "IF".

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    But that was a mistake. Because you bash and relentless attack the quality of all the jumps and lots do. So if Plushenko didn't do a quad and expend that energy on quads maybe all the jumps would have been better overall. That would not have been a guarantee of course but he spends the energy and mental and physical strength to do a quad triple but what if that had not been a factor. He does a 3lz 3toe and 3axel 3 toe and gets all +3 GOE? Then he does all the rest of the jumps in the second half of the program and he gets the bonus and +GOE on all them too? That is what the whole idea of him being smart would have meant eliminating the quad triple from his free skate and maybe the SP as well. He does a quad but most say it is not perfect and amazing and give him zero or negative GOE on it so then it worth less. And the energy spend on that means he tilts in the air but has a fine landing on his first 3A? What if he never did that quad triple? People are totally discounting his quad triple as an element that was worth doing but it effects everything else. The quad may have lead to silver but eliminating it and doing triples better was good for GOLD! Going for gold was the point and maybe doing no quads was better for that goal. Worlds 2008 and 2009 and then the Olympics 2010 showed quads done was stupid! Quads did not elevate him over the field because even though he did them they were not COP smart! They did not lead to even a lead on TES! So no quad training means more training for spins and maybe halfway point bonus jumps. There was a theme and a trend he misread the theme and trend. He does quads but they don't get the points because theyre not OMG amazing! and don't get GOE! So he has program frontloaded to do 4/3 3A 3A+2t so he can use the adrenaline created for the big jumps but even though they are done and nearly textbook he has slight tilts in the air so they get some negative GOE as well. He was dumb to include quads. Misread the system.
    No, what I was saying was that due to inferior programs, content-wise, compared to the other top guys, Plushenko's quad is really what kept him up there. If all the other guys did a quad in their SP and FS, and all skated clean, Plushenko would have been in 4th or 5th. Add to that the fact that Plushenko isn't maximizing the scoring efficiency of his jumps (part of the reason he lost) by adding the 2L or performing a 3A in the second half and he's really shortchanging himself. The whole point of the system is to garner as many points as possible, and if he's throwing away points it obviously doesn't take away from what a great performance it was, but it does take away from how high the program can score (which, in this case, affected the final placement).

    Under 6.0, an extra double loop, lower levels, and front-end loading wouldn't matter as long as you skated clean, but under the rules he - and everyone else - had to follow, it made a difference in your score. Oda would have a World bronze, but under the IJS rules his 3A-3T was negated and he lost it. It's also how Plushenko lost to Sandhu. You win by the rules, you lose by the rules. Plushenko physically did everything he could to win (double loop aside) by skating two clean skates and incorporating quads, but his programs didn't do everything possible for him to win.

    I'm saying that instead of just expecting clean programs with quads to win, he should have made efforts to include even small changes that would maximize his points. It's like a runner who is in front the whole race and then eases up at the end because they think they have a prominent lead, and then all of a sudden somebody going at 90% of his speed the whole way ends up catching up and narrowly beating him. Tortoise & Hare scenario, if you will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    So "wonky" doesn't cut it anymore - let's come up with something new.
    Empty? Empty as in 'not many transitions'? Yeah, that's true. That's exactly one out of five PCS categories. That alone is supposed to defend Evan winning? Lol.

    The problem wasn't just that Evan didn't have a quad. If Buttle would have won OGM, the outcry wouldn't have been even close to the same level. The problem is Evan wasn't outstanding in anything and his only strength was that he didn't make any mistakes. Evan shouldn't have been able to beat Plushenko in TES: no quad + the ugliest 3A's of the whole competition. That he got massive +GOE on those jumps stinks like hell. If you want to talk about PCS: CH was generic, his SS are good but far from outstanding, his performance quality is okay but he never seemed to even know there was music playing in the backround. Evan was overscored from the start - he beat Daisuke in PCS. Evan beat Daisuke in Interpretation. Worst joke ever.

    If Plush wants to disagree with Evan's win, he has all the right to. I don't think he would have said anything if Daisuke without the fall on his 4F would have beat him. But even without that fall, the numbers look as if Daisuke might not have beaten Evan anyway. Urks.
    Exactly. It wasnt just a quadless champion. It was an average skater in everyway able to win without even donig a quad. Simply ridiculous. Only a truly special skater should be able to win without quads in this day and age. It makes me annoyed at Jeff for not continuing. As for Evan's triple axels they should all get either -1 in GOE or some of them downgraded (his 2nd triple axel in Vancouver should have been downgraded and wasnt, while Takahashi's lutzes which were nowhere near as much a problem got calls, what an epic joke). Had his triple axels in Vancouver been scored properly in Vancouver they would already probably lose him 10 or plus points to drop him back to 3rd or 4th place. That is before even getting into his ridiculous PCS in the SP which were higher than Takahashi's and almost as high as Lambiel's, LOL! Plushenko's PCS in the LP were also too high (while in the SP too low), but he is already well clear of Evan at this point, with the only question being if he would have won gold over Takahashi if Takahashi had been scored fairly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    What are you talking about?! Quad value has already been raised and set the following season after 2010 Olympics. I don't think it will change again next season. So there is no "IF".
    That is right, I just checked, it was increased 0.5
    yes, and i am talking about skaters not taking risk for 0.5

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    No, what I was saying was that due to inferior programs, content-wise, compared to the other top guys, Plushenko's quad is really what kept him up there. If all the other guys did a quad in their SP and FS, and all skated clean, Plushenko would have been in 4th or 5th. Add to that the fact that Plushenko isn't maximizing the scoring efficiency of his jumps (part of the reason he lost) by adding the 2L or performing a 3A in the second half and he's really shortchanging himself. The whole point of the system is to garner as many points as possible, and if he's throwing away points it obviously doesn't take away from what a great performance it was, but it does take away from how high the program can score (which, in this case, affected the final placement).

    Under 6.0, an extra double loop, lower levels, and front-end loading wouldn't matter as long as you skated clean, but under the rules he - and everyone else - had to follow, it made a difference in your score. Oda would have a World bronze, but under the IJS rules his 3A-3T was negated and he lost it. It's also how Plushenko lost to Sandhu. You win by the rules, you lose by the rules. Plushenko physically did everything he could to win (double loop aside) by skating two clean skates and incorporating quads, but his programs didn't do everything possible for him to win.

    I'm saying that instead of just expecting clean programs with quads to win, he should have made efforts to include even small changes that would maximize his points. It's like a runner who is in front the whole race and then eases up at the end because they think they have a prominent lead, and then all of a sudden somebody going at 90% of his speed the whole way ends up catching up and narrowly beating him. Tortoise & Hare scenario, if you will.
    Maybe he wouldn't have medaled if everyone else did a quad because of the quality of his quad and spins and program design would have gotten all others more points. You may be right there. But they were not doing them because they were going by the system!

    His strategy turned out to be bad but people act like doing a three jump combo with a double loop on the end was so obvious and easy and it was a mistake not to do but what if he ur-ed it! There was a reason why he never did a 3 jump combo the whole entire season! Maybe he was stepping out of all of them or ur-ing them?

    3T
    4T
    3A
    3R (Loop)
    Sit spin, change foot sit spin
    2A
    3L
    Flying sit spin
    Circular footwork
    3Lz+2T
    3A+2T
    3S (step out)
    Straightline footwork
    Camel spin, sit spin, upright, change foot came, sit spin, upright

    This was his Russian nationals skate and he did do a 3A combo after the halfway point at least once but it was as a result of a mistake and also here no three jump combo! It was a terrible performance anyway but within that terrible performances there was a quad and a 3A after the halfway point but it shows how the team had a strategy that was designed to get the best out of plushenko. There program was not just done by idiots for an idiot! But if they were totally looking at what would work best there are so many things they could have done! Not just add a double loop and more second half jumps! If you look at what won there was no quad there at all! So you take Plushenko's layout and change it from 5/3 to 3/5 and add a never done that season three jump combo and he wins? Maybe? But that leaves out the person who won didn't do a quad so it makes no sense just to add a 3 jump combo and keep in the quads. Just the fact that he could do a 3A and 4/3 made him unique in Vancouver but that was not the smartest thing to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by bestskate8 View Post
    That is right, I just checked, it was increased 0.5
    yes, and i am talking about skaters not taking risk for 0.5
    Well more than making the quad worth over 10 they changed the underrotation rules. Because toe loop is the most accessible quad for most skaters if you ur a quad toe it goes back to 3t value- easiest triple!! So that change has changed the mindset! Quad toe mistakes keep you in the quad recognition zone! Not the easiest triple zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Maybe he wouldn't have medaled if everyone else did a quad because of the quality of his quad and spins and program design would have gotten all others more points. You may be right there. But they were not doing them because they were going by the system!

    His strategy turned out to be bad but people act like doing a three jump combo with a double loop on the end was so obvious and easy and it was a mistake not to do but what if he ur-ed it! There was a reason why he never did a 3 jump combo the whole entire season! Maybe he was stepping out of all of them or ur-ing them?

    3T
    4T
    3A
    3R (Loop)
    Sit spin, change foot sit spin
    2A
    3L
    Flying sit spin
    Circular footwork
    3Lz+2T
    3A+2T
    3S (step out)
    Straightline footwork
    Camel spin, sit spin, upright, change foot came, sit spin, upright
    To be honest, I think the reason he didn't include the 2L was because he felt he didn't need it. He's done 4T-3T-3L and 4T-3T-2L many times and surely he could have put a 2L after his second 3A-2T (his plan should have been to do 4T-3T-2L, and then if he bailed the 2L now goes on the 3A-2T, and if he bailed the 2L now goes on the 3Z-2T. Plenty of skaters plan for missing a combination and practice incorporating the missed part of the combination later on, but I'm thinking he never planned it because he didn't really think he needed it. In his mind, he had landed a quad, and two triple axels and that would secure a victory. He could also bump up some of his spins to level 4, but again, he probably didn't want to expend the energy to do so because he felt he had done enough. The same thing happened in the GPF he lost to Sandhu... he assumed that since he had done his 4T and 3A's (and was unaware of his second 3A being negated), he had done everything he needed to do to win and omitted a whole jumping pass (the 3S, which would have won it for him).

    And according to that Russian Nationals skate, he is capable of doing a 3A after the halfway point. He really should have done a 2A in the first half and a 3A in the second half. If you look at most of the guys in that 2010 Olympic FS, they not only didn't frontload, they also put difficult jumps in the second half and got extra points for it. Plushenko's layout is a "downhill" layout which means it starts really hard and gets progressively easier and easier (the loop being the exception: 1st half: 4T-3T, 3A, 3A-2T, 3L, 3Z 2nd half: 3Z+2T, 3S, 2A), and while it worked under 6.0 which was essentially a checklist of jumps no matter the order, this isn't rewarded by the IJS. I think Plushenko just assumed that a clean skate with a quad would be enough and didn't make the efforts to maximize his scoring potential.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    To be honest, I think the reason he didn't include the 2L was because he felt he didn't need it. He's done 4T-3T-3L and 4T-3T-2L many times and surely he could have put a 2L after his second 3A-2T (his plan should have been to do 4T-3T-2L, and then if he bailed the 2L now goes on the 3A-2T, and if he bailed the 2L now goes on the 3Z-2T. Plenty of skaters plan for missing a combination and practice incorporating the missed part of the combination later on, but I'm thinking he never planned it because he didn't really think he needed it. In his mind, he had landed a quad, and two triple axels and that would secure a victory. He could also bump up some of his spins to level 4, but again, he probably didn't want to expend the energy to do so because he felt he had done enough. The same thing happened in the GPF he lost to Sandhu... he assumed that since he had done his 4T and 3A's (and was unaware of his second 3A being negated), he had done everything he needed to do to win and omitted a whole jumping pass (the 3S, which would have won it for him).

    And according to that Russian Nationals skate, he is capable of doing a 3A after the halfway point. He really should have done a 2A in the first half and a 3A in the second half. If you look at most of the guys in that 2010 Olympic FS, they not only didn't frontload, they also put difficult jumps in the second half and got extra points for it. Plushenko's layout is a "downhill" layout which means it starts really hard and gets progressively easier and easier (the loop being the exception: 1st half: 4T-3T, 3A, 3A-2T, 3L, 3Z 2nd half: 3Z+2T, 3S, 2A), and while it worked under 6.0 which was essentially a checklist of jumps no matter the order, this isn't rewarded by the IJS. I think Plushenko just assumed that a clean skate with a quad would be enough and didn't make the efforts to maximize his scoring potential.
    Sign, why Plushenko did not do 2L only he knows, repeat million times that you think it is because he thought he did not need it (hence hinted he is arrogant) would not make your statement true.

    Besides, why discuss again about his 2010's program? That is in the past. If Plushenko would compete in Sochi, do you think he would not maximum the scoring potential based on what he is capable of?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    To be honest, I think the reason he didn't include the 2L was because he felt he didn't need it. He's done 4T-3T-3L and 4T-3T-2L many times and surely he could have put a 2L after his second 3A-2T (his plan should have been to do 4T-3T-2L, and then if he bailed the 2L now goes on the 3A-2T, and if he bailed the 2L now goes on the 3Z-2T. Plenty of skaters plan for missing a combination and practice incorporating the missed part of the combination later on, but I'm thinking he never planned it because he didn't really think he needed it. In his mind, he had landed a quad, and two triple axels and that would secure a victory. He could also bump up some of his spins to level 4, but again, he probably didn't want to expend the energy to do so because he felt he had done enough. The same thing happened in the GPF he lost to Sandhu... he assumed that since he had done his 4T and 3A's (and was unaware of his second 3A being negated), he had done everything he needed to do to win and omitted a whole jumping pass (the 3S, which would have won it for him).

    And according to that Russian Nationals skate, he is capable of doing a 3A after the halfway point. He really should have done a 2A in the first half and a 3A in the second half. If you look at most of the guys in that 2010 Olympic FS, they not only didn't frontload, they also put difficult jumps in the second half and got extra points for it. Plushenko's layout is a "downhill" layout which means it starts really hard and gets progressively easier and easier (the loop being the exception: 1st half: 4T-3T, 3A, 3A-2T, 3L, 3Z 2nd half: 3Z+2T, 3S, 2A), and while it worked under 6.0 which was essentially a checklist of jumps no matter the order, this isn't rewarded by the IJS. I think Plushenko just assumed that a clean skate with a quad would be enough and didn't make the efforts to maximize his scoring potential.
    I think I am disagreeing with the idea that he make any effort to maximize his scoring potential. Like you can leave out stuff to maximize. You can leave out a quad or leave out a three jump combo. Leaving out the quad was smart for some but leaving out the 3 jump combo turned out to be dumb. That doesn't mean he wasn't trying to maximize his scoring potential. Look at his three jump combo in Torino. That was not good at all! Now he could have moved that double loop to the lutz or axel combo but maybe they were stepouts and urs in practice. Maybe he did believe he didn't need it because he was the only one capable of a quad triple and 3A. But not needing it doesn't mean he wasn't trying to maximize the points. They were trying to be smart but wound up very stupid. But the stupid goes all the way beyond not doing a three jump combo but doing quads that were not OMG perfect and generated tons of criticism on no GOE. They might have thought it was smart to do things to maximize plushenko's points. But not the case at all. Doing a 4/3/3 wasn't in the cares. He could barely do that anyway. He was losing capability at 4/3/2. Maybe he lost ability at 3/2/2. Just any three jump combo wasn't working. He never ever did one that whole season anywhere! For others maximizing point meant doing it in the second half - for plushenko it meant doing it in the first half. The idea of there being no trying and no effort and everyone actually being dumb and not just turning out to be really dumb is what I disagree with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    Sign, why Plushenko did not do 2L only he knows, repeat million times that you think it is because he thought he did not need it (hence hinted he is arrogant) would not make your statement true.

    Besides, why discuss again about his 2010's program? That is in the past. If Plushenko would compete in Sochi, do you think he would not maximum the scoring potential based on what he is capable of?
    My opinion is that he didn't think he needed it so he didn't include it. A double loop is the easiest thing ever for him (especially when he can do 3L off of practically a standstill). At 2010 Russians he didn't have 3-jump combo. At 2010 Europeans, he didn't attempt a 3-jump combo. At 2009 Cup of Russia, he didn't even attempt 3 combinations, let alone a 3-jump combo. Clearly, he wasn't intending on putting it in his Olympics FS. So either nobody ever told him that he needed it, or because he kept winning without it (and convincingly at that) he never saw it as an issue. Not arrogance, just oversight. I bet nobody ever told him, hey maybe put some more of your jumps in the second half. I'm sure if these oversights had resulted in a loss, he'd surely have implemented them in his 2010 FS and have a 2nd gold medal to show for it, but unfortunately it was at the Olympics that it became apparent that not maximizing his score could actually affect his placement. And he obviously made some efforts to maximize his scoring potential, like putting a quad in the SP and adding spin positions that he normally doesn't do in an effort to increase the levels, but he didn't do everything he could.

    If Plushenko competes in Sochi, and wants to have a shot at the podium, he will need 2 quad attempts in his FS, he will need to max out his 3-jump combo, he will need top levels on his spins and footwork, he will need to balance the jumps in both half of his program, including putting difficult jumps in his 2nd half for the bonus. He will also need to increase the difficulty in his choreography between his elements (again, his choreography was 5th and transitions were 7th in his Vancouver FS, which was clean... so clearly the judges aren't going to give him PCS marks just because he skates clean). Even varying the direction in which he skates around the rink is an absurdly simple change that would likely benefit his scores. Unless he can magically transform his skating ability and programs to become on par with those who will likely get higher PCS, he'll need to skate practically clean to beat them. He can't afford to leave out a jumping pass or Zayak his jumps or not maximize his levels or combos. If his performance in 2010 lost to a quadless Lysacek, you can bet that the current crop of men will give him an even greater run for his money. Hopefully he can recover though, because his presence would certainly make the men's competition more interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    My opinion is that he didn't think he needed it so he didn't include it. A double loop is the easiest thing ever for him (especially when he can do 3L off of practically a standstill). At 2010 Russians he didn't have 3-jump combo. At 2010 Europeans, he didn't attempt a 3-jump combo. At 2009 Cup of Russia, he didn't even attempt 3 combinations, let alone a 3-jump combo. Clearly, he wasn't intending on putting it in his Olympics FS. So either nobody ever told him that he needed it, or because he kept winning without it (and convincingly at that) he never saw it as an issue. Not arrogance, just oversight. I bet nobody ever told him, hey maybe put some more of your jumps in the second half. I'm sure if these oversights had resulted in a loss, he'd surely have implemented them in his 2010 FS and have a 2nd gold medal to show for it, but unfortunately it was at the Olympics that it became apparent that not maximizing his score could actually affect his placement. And he obviously made some efforts to maximize his scoring potential, like putting a quad in the SP and adding spin positions that he normally doesn't do in an effort to increase the levels, but he didn't do everything he could.

    If Plushenko competes in Sochi, and wants to have a shot at the podium, he will need 2 quad attempts in his FS, he will need to max out his 3-jump combo, he will need top levels on his spins and footwork, he will need to balance the jumps in both half of his program, including putting difficult jumps in his 2nd half for the bonus. He will also need to increase the difficulty in his choreography between his elements (again, his choreography was 5th and transitions were 7th in his Vancouver FS, which was clean... so clearly the judges aren't going to give him PCS marks just because he skates clean). Even varying the direction in which he skates around the rink is an absurdly simple change that would likely benefit his scores. Unless he can magically transform his skating ability and programs to become on par with those who will likely get higher PCS, he'll need to skate practically clean to beat them. He can't afford to leave out a jumping pass or Zayak his jumps or not maximize his levels or combos. If his performance in 2010 lost to a quadless Lysacek, you can bet that the current crop of men will give him an even greater run for his money. Hopefully he can recover though, because his presence would certainly make the men's competition more interesting.
    As I pointed out, that is your opinion, how would you know what he thought at the time? You just repeating these opinions over and over again to make the impression that Plushenko is arrogant (at least at 2010 Oly) without any solid proof to back you up. And the story is really old.

    And Plushenko said he plans to move 70% of the jumps to the second half (he had two versions of his LP this year but his injury preventing him from performing the more complex version. And he put 4 jumps to the second half of LP at RN, the injury also preventing him from doing 2 quads. Actually he took the risk by even performed 2 quads (one in Sp, one in LP) at RN since he lost a lot of training time from the back treatment. And he said couple of times that he needs 2 quads in his LP to have the chance to medal. So stop worrying for him not thinking maximize his points, he knows what he should do.

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