Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title? | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title?

yaya124

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
I agree with Orser in that I'm much more a fan of him as of last year than before. And also agree with Camerlengo that it's a shame he didn't show that before. I wouldn't say he's a much better or worse skater now than before (since he was likely capable of everything he did in 2012 back in 2010, if not more capable); I commend him for starting to show what he's capable of as a skater and not just as a jumper.

I am not a huge fan of his 2010's programs but I love almost all his previous programs. Only in certain people's eyes he is only a jumper.

But I can see why saying he is just a jumper is convenient especially now: before the injury, people can conveniently say he won because of his consistent jumps. At the same time forming the idea of "if he cannot jump well, he is just an average or even lower skater" in people's mind. Now he is injured, so probably he could not jump as well as before, hence he is merely an average skater now.

Nevertheless, cannot wait for the summer to come so that we will know how well he recovers from the operation.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The Team Event is scheduled 2/6, 2/8, & 2/9 with the Mens' SP on 2/6 & Mens' FS on 2/9. The Mens' individual competition is 2/13 SP, and 2/14 FS.

Oh. That's not good. Thank you for the information. That schedule gives an advantage to countries that have two strong men so they can switch off in the short and long programs.
 

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
In all honesty, probably not. He hasn't competed enough since the last games, and yes, his injuries have not helped. And unfortunately same goes for Weir and to an extent Lysacek.
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Oh. That's not good. Thank you for the information. That schedule gives an advantage to countries that have two strong men so they can switch off in the short and long programs.

And even more of an advantage to those who have no teams entered - or those in a team that do not have to perform in the team event. (For instance if a team has three spots, than at least one skater/team will be guaranteed not to have to participate.)
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
If they are smart, they will test him several times doing 4 programs in the Olympic's
time frame. Sometimes "matter" wins out over "mind". I suspect that will be the case here.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
I am not a huge fan of his 2010's programs but I love almost all his previous programs. Only in certain people's eyes he is only a jumper.

But I can see why saying he is just a jumper is convenient especially now: before the injury, people can conveniently say he won because of his consistent jumps. At the same time forming the idea of "if he cannot jump well, he is just an average or even lower skater" in people's mind. Now he is injured, so probably he could not jump as well as before, hence he is merely an average skater now.

Nevertheless, cannot wait for the summer to come so that we will know how well he recovers from the operation.

Yes, I agree. I love his programs, like many others. But yes, those programs were always very different from the North American perception. I really believe that the North- American style is not the only one good style.
I want to see Plushenko on the ice, who is a little bit different from the others, who has kept the style and personality, but adapted to the new requirements as well. I do not want to see second-third Chan, and so on. This is very difficult. Look at Fernandez, Ten they skate in totally North-American style....

And is he only a jumper? Sometimes I think, the North-American people don't know or don't remember his skating. They know the Godfather program in Torino, and his Tango Amore program in 2010, but no more, and they repeat what they read or heard somewhere.

I can't wait this summer!
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I am not a huge fan of his 2010's programs but I love almost all his previous programs. Only in certain people's eyes he is only a jumper.

But I can see why saying he is just a jumper is convenient especially now: before the injury, people can conveniently say he won because of his consistent jumps. At the same time forming the idea of "if he cannot jump well, he is just an average or even lower skater" in people's mind. Now he is injured, so probably he could not jump as well as before, hence he is merely an average skater now.

Nevertheless, cannot wait for the summer to come so that we will know how well he recovers from the operation.

I say he's a jumper because jumps are critical to his performance because his choreography or the intricacy of his programs (particularly in 2010 and prior to that) wasn't nearly the level of the other guys. At that time, if you took out the jumps there really wouldn't be a whole lot left in his programs choreography-wise (though some of his spins were good, and his energy in footwork sequences is great even if the footwork itself isn't particularly complex). Interpretation is up to some people... I agree that he's expressive, but I'm personally not a fan of the winks or hip thrusts -- it's excessive and "exhibition"y. I get he's playing to the audience, but stuff like that ruins the interpretation and character of the program.

They'll remember his skating for its high difficulty and consistent jumping more than for its complexity/interpretation. Although certainly in places outside of North America his style would be appreciated more. At risk of sounding pretentious, I think North American audiences are more attuned to subtlety (which could also come across as safe or boring if it's too subtle), whereas European audiences are fans of flamboyance and theatrics (which could also come across as over the top).
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Yes. In context of the thread title, those vying for the Olympic title can't be competitive without quads because there are far too many skaters who have also mastered the other elements and PCS as well as the quad. Playing it safe will not cut it anymore (I say that to Plushenko's competitors who previously lowered the content), and should top PCS earners like Hanyu/Fernandez/Chan/Takahashi have a clean SP with quads and their competitors don't, said competitors will face at least a 5-7 point disadvantage going into the FS. At least a quad attempt will be mandatory in the SP and LP in Sochi. Back in 2010 at the Olympics, most of the top 10 hadn't mastered the quad (arguably Lambiel, who struggled with 3A, and Plushenko were consistent and the only ones to attempt it in the SP). I have every confidence that Plushenko will incorporate quad attempts in both, should he be competing, as there's no way he (or anyone really) could contend without them.
The only meanigful sentence is in italics. All the rest is ranting as usual. Guess what- eveyone knows that a quad attempt will be mandatory in the SP and LP in Sochi.

but I'm personally not a fan of the winks or hip thrusts -- it's over the top and "exhibition"y. I get he's playing to the audience, but stuff like that ruins the interpretation and character of the program.
I am personally not a fan of rolling eyes and robot-like skating. I get that butting the ice is inevitable for some skater but stuff like that suins the interpretation and character of the program.

Then why my guy is not a World/Olympic champion? :popcorn:
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The only meanigful sentence is in italics. All the rest is ranting as usual. Guess what- eveyone knows that a quad attempt will be mandatory in the SP and LP in Sochi.

I am personally not a fan of rolling eyes and robot-like skating. I get that butting the ice is inevitable for some skater but stuff like that suins the interpretation and character of the program.

Then why my guy is not a World/Olympic champion?

And the only meaningful sentence of this is in italics, too.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
but I'm personally not a fan of the winks or hip thrusts -- it's excessive and "exhibition"y. I get he's playing to the audience, but stuff like that ruins the interpretation and character of the program.
I am personally not a fan of rolling eyes and robot-like skating. I get that butting the ice is inevitable for some skater but stuff like that suins the interpretation and character of the program.
And the only meaningful sentence of this is in italics, too.
Case in point. So, two like sentences but someow only yours is the one that is meaninful. That is precisely what I am talking about. You think only you represent "meanigful". It's stupid enough to use biased views then constantly call them "meaningful"!


Chan fans are so alike. Zzzz..

Still no newly-brand trolling? For an off-season I am expecting more creativity that repeatedly rant about Vancouver-whatever in multiple Plu threads. :popcorn:
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Case in point. So, two like sentences but someow only yours is the one that is meaninful. That is precisely what I am talking about. You think only you represent "meanigful". It's stupid enough to use biased views then constantly call them "meaningful"!

Hip thrusts are something Plushenko deliberately incorporates into his choreography that (in mine, and others', opinions) adversely affects the character/interpretation of the program. If a skater falls it is an error that affects the program, but it's not like they're intentionally doing it (considering Yuzuru, Chan, Fernandez, Takahashi, and Plushenko have all fallen). As for robot-like skating that is your opinion of Chan's skating...

I think robot-like would be something more like railing off three jumping passes back-to back-to back with just a bit of basic stroking to gather speed and zero choreography between them (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21woRiBqrks).
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Hip thrusts are something Plushenko deliberately incorporates into his choreography that (in mine, and others', opinions) adversely affects the character/interpretation of the program. If a skater falls it is an error that affects the program, but it's not like they're intentionally doing it (considering Yuzuru, Chan, Fernandez, Takahashi, and Plushenko have all fallen). As for robot-like skating that is your opinion of Chan's skating... I think robot-like would be something more like railing off three jumping passes back-to back-to back with just a bit of basic stroking to gather speed and practically zero choreography between them.

The hip thrusts, as you said, were in his two competitive programs, in 2001 Bolero SP and in 2010 Tango Amore, is not very common. Right? On the shows that is very popular. :laugh:
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Case in point. So, two like sentences but someow only yours is the one that is meaninful. That is precisely what I am talking about. You think only you represent "meanigful". It's stupid enough to use biased views then constantly call them "meaningful"!


Chan fans are so alike. Zzzz..

Still no newly-brand trolling? For an off-season I am expecting more creativity that repeatedly rant about Vancouver-whatever in multiple Plu threads. :popcorn:

If in Plushy's program will be less TR-I'm sure-;), like in Chan's program, they will say: there is NO TR! :)
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The hip thrusts, as you said, were in his two competitive programs, in 2001 Bolero SP and in 2010 Tango Amore, is not very common. Right? On the shows that is very popular. :laugh:

Hah, I actually love the hip thrusts in the shows and programs where it's appropriate... e.g. Sex Bomb. :party2:

But in the competitions I think he tends to get a little too flirty/showy with the audience and judges (it's not just hip thrusts, it's also winking, finger waving and shoulder shimmying like his 2001 LP, etc.) for my tastes -- and it's even more emphasized by him not really using his arms or expressing himself when stroking around into elements (like he has an all-business and all-performance switch).
 

yaya124

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Hip thrusts are something Plushenko deliberately incorporates into his choreography that (in mine, and others', opinions) adversely affects the character/interpretation of the program. If a skater falls it is an error that affects the program, but it's not like they're intentionally doing it (considering Yuzuru, Chan, Fernandez, Takahashi, and Plushenko have all fallen). As for robot-like skating that is your opinion of Chan's skating... I think robot-like would be something more like railing off three jumping passes back-to back-to back with just a bit of basic stroking to gather speed and practically zero choreography between them.

If you only focus on Plushenko's hip thrusts, you should not blame other people focus on Chan's falls. You see only what you want to see, even imaginary. Like plushyfan said, Plushenko only did hip thrusting in competition programs two times (actually his initial version of Bolero did not have that movement, but in his WORLDs performance, he put it in (I guess it is kind of try to please NA audience. He mentioned in his book about different interpretation when facing different audience)), the second time is Tango Amore which is meant to be seductive and sexy.

I once watched one of his practice video without any jumps, he was just quietly skating along the music, it is really nice to watch, simply beautiful. So I am sure if he entered a competition where no jumps are allowed, he would still produce beautiful programs.

You can insist on your opinion, but just remind you that you cannot represent other people's opinion then act like what you said is the only fact/truth/rules.

Your opinion on aesthetic taste is interesting, Plushenko is very popular in Europe and Asia (just look at the response he got in the shows), and he was very popular in NA when he was young (by then he joined in many NA shows). So probably your opinion of how NA audience viewing Plushenko's skating is also just your opinions (certainly there will be some people from NA agree with you, especially people hanging around here, but to say that is for whole NA audience, I do not think so).
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Hah, I actually love the hip thrusts in the shows and programs where it's appropriate... e.g. Sex Bomb. :party2:

But in the competitions I think he tends to get a little too flirty/showy with the audience and judges (it's not just hip thrusts, it's also winking, finger waving and shoulder shimmying like his 2001 LP, etc.) for my tastes -- and it's even more emphasized by him not really using his arms or expressing himself when stroking around into elements (like he has an all-business and all-performance switch).

Too flirty?? :laugh: No,I think he is original. I didn't understand "shoulder shimmying like his 2001 LP" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PWM2NESsGw Is that what you think at 1:37?

I know it was a gala, but do you think any other skaters would venture to do? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UClulQ0Uo7I at 2' 38" :laugh::rofl::jaw: Kiss of Tosca.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
If you only focus on Plushenko's hip thrusts, you should not blame other people focus on Chan's falls. You see only what you want to see, even imaginary. Like plushyfan said, Plushenko only did hip thrusting in competition programs two times (actually his initial version of Bolero did not have that movement, but in his WORLDs performance, he put it in (I guess it is kind of try to please NA audience. He mentioned in his book about different interpretation when facing different audience)), the second time is Tango Amore which is meant to be seductive and sexy.

I once watched one of his practice video without any jumps, he was just quietly skating along the music, it is really nice to watch, simply beautiful. So I am sure if he entered a competition where no jumps are allowed, he would still produce beautiful programs.

You can insist on your opinion, but just remind you that you cannot represent other people's opinion then act like what you said is the only fact/truth/rules.

Your opinion on aesthetic taste is interesting, Plushenko is very popular in Europe and Asia (just look at the response he got in the shows), and he was very popular in NA when he was young (by then he joined in many NA shows). So probably your opinion of how NA audience viewing Plushenko's skating is also just your opinions (certainly there will be some people from NA agree with you, especially people hanging around here, but to say that is for whole NA audience, I do not think so).

My comments about audiences are obviously just opinion... just like there are those who think Plushenko/Chan is a lovely skater and those who think he's an awful skater. NA audiences love the sport aspect of figure skating and Plushenko was indeed very popular because he's able to jump and consistently at that. But I've more than one conversation with different spectators (skating and non-skating fans) who absolutely hate his flamboyant arms and attempts to be sexy. Hip thrusts are sexy, but there's nothing "Tango" about them (especially when a tango is meant to look powerful and sophisticated, hip thrusts just look hokey). Same with his winking and whisper fingers at the judges and audience -- it doesn't match the character of the program.

As for this with respect to falls from Chan and other skaters who have fallen (i.e. all of them), I'll say again that those are unintentional disruptions and are different than actual intentional choreography that goes against the feel/persona/character of a program.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Yes, I agree. I love his programs, like many others. But yes, those programs were always very different from the North American perception. I really believe that the North- American style is not the only one good style.
I want to see Plushenko on the ice, who is a little bit different from the others, who has kept the style and personality, but adapted to the new requirements as well. I do not want to see second-third Chan, and so on. This is very difficult. Look at Fernandez, Ten they skate in totally North-American style....

And is he only a jumper? Sometimes I think, the North-American people don't know or don't remember his skating. They know the Godfather program in Torino, and his Tango Amore program in 2010, but no more, and they repeat what they read or heard somewhere.

I can't wait this summer!

Very true. There is just nothing that can be done to say plushenko had any talent to north Americans! You can go everywhere else in the world and they will say plushenko is very talented but not north America.
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
I am not a huge fan of his 2010's programs but I love almost all his previous programs. Only in certain people's eyes he is only a jumper.
But I can see why saying he is just a jumper is convenient especially now: before the injury, people can conveniently say he won because of his consistent jumps. At the same time forming the idea of "if he cannot jump well, he is just an average or even lower skater" in people's mind. Now he is injured, so probably he could not jump as well as before, hence he is merely an average skater now.

Nevertheless, cannot wait for the summer to come so that we will know how well he recovers from the operation.


You will be surprised, but those people never ever watch Plushenko skate, especially life. When was last time Plushenko was invited to skate life in NA? 2004? Forget about Oly 2010, its not affordable for many people. They didn't see him almost 10 years, but are always so knowledgeable about his artistic side, judging from top view camera angels.:laugh:


If he does 1 quad SP's and 1 or 2 quad LP's in both the team and Individual events I will be surprised! I just think he does quads in the individual event SP and LP. Only he will know how he feels after quads in Russian nationals and Europeans and then the team event and then the SP of the individual.


Theoretically, he can skate similar to Euro 2012. QR like team event, somehow to warm up before individual event. His LP Euro 2012 was Olympic winning material PSC wise according to audience which was not from his home country. I’ve seen Plushenko skate life many times and this one was epic.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Very true. There is just nothing that can be done to say plushenko had any talent to north Americans! You can go everywhere else in the world and they will say plushenko is very talented but not north America.

I don't think anyone denies that Plushenko is talented. And in my opinion, his talents have predominantly been in jumping and performance moreso than skating skills, choreography and interpretation.
 
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