Page 9 of 51 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 753

Thread: Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title?

  1. #121
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    3,028
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    if he is there it is 4 programs. He would have to do Team SP and LP and then individual SP and LP. He would have to be flawless in the individual event after doing a SP and LP in team. He is obviously not really commenting on this. Being forced to compete the most he's ever competed in 10 years! 2004 season was his last real season with GP and GPF and worlds and everything?
    Yes, you are totally right!

  2. #122
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,854
    Plushenko Team Layout SP

    3A
    3lz-3T
    3loop

    maybe even 2A

    LP layout of jumps team
    3a
    3lz-3t
    3loop
    3lz
    -----
    3loop or 3 axel-2t -2loop
    3s-2loop
    3f
    2a

    Maybe all 3a are replaced by 2a

    For the Individual jumps layout may be:
    SP
    4T
    3axel
    ----
    3lz-3toe

    LP
    4T
    3A-3T
    3lz-2t-2lp
    3A
    ---
    3loop-2toe
    3lz
    3s
    2a

    Maybe if like Japan 2012
    4t-2t
    4t
    3a
    3a-2t-2lp
    3lz
    3lz-2t
    --
    3s
    2a

    Theres going to be some major conservation going on!

    He may feel it necessary to try quads in all aspects though maybe he could fake it and plan 3t's and do 3t's saying he was trying for quads.

    TEAM EVENT

    SP
    3t-3t
    3a
    3lz

    LP
    3t
    3t-2t
    3a
    3a-2t
    --
    3lz-2t-2t
    3loop
    3salchow
    3flip

  3. #123
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    5,489
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    No it didn't because the points weren't there overall because of what it meant to the entire program. You can see how he can take quads out when he is injured like 2005 QR at worlds and do the backloading and everything and that is what one the Olympics and 2 previous worlds. He won that QR. It didn't make sense for him if he wanted to win and not just do them. Doing them and not winning was nothing meant nothing.

    He didn't do quads because he was injured and was trying to stay in the game and not be like he was from 2006 to 2009 where he never competed ever before the Olympic season. He was going to be in the game and not be attacked as an interloper who left and then came back. Remember how some people commented on his 2009 return? Oh he is just returning for the OLympic season and then will be gone again. It was a negative for him.
    You mean 2005 Worlds QR which he won over Stefan Lindemann and Chengjiang Li?! Had he competed in the difficult qualifying group, he would have lost the QR to Lambiel (even if Lambiel was only marginally better in terms of score, you can bet the margin between them would have been greater if they were in the same QR group).

    I acknowledge that he was injured in Euros 2013, yaya and gmers, so with an injury and no quad in his SP, I have no idea what he was trying to prove or if he actually thought he had a chance to win. Even if he had gone clean with his SP content he still might not have been in podium position (certainly not leading or even close to the lead). Perhaps after his good showing at Russian nationals he thought he was prepared.

    If his reasoning was to "stay in the game", while risking further injury, then I question his judgment. Fernandez/Amodio/Joubert were all legit threats (and Brezina as well), and Plushenko being off the podium was a reality, particularly if he was injured. The result was a poor SP with no quad and a withdrawal, which far outweighed any gains he might have made by still staying in the game.

    I think my point in all of this is that I hope Euros was a wakeup call to him that he really needs to only compete at close to full strength (certainly not while he's injured), and pick his pre-Russian nationals competitions carefully, and budget his energy if he wants to make a legitimate run for Sochi. Once he gets to the Olympics, hopefully he will skate well but unlike his 2006 Olympics (and somewhat unlike his 2010 Olympics) he will have to depend on his competitors making major errors in order to win, even if he skates clean.

  4. #124
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    3,028
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    You mean 2005 Worlds QR which he won over Stefan Lindemann and Chengjiang Li?! Had he competed in the difficult qualifying group, he would have lost the QR to Lambiel (even if Lambiel was only marginally better in terms of score, you can bet the margin between them would have been greater if they were in the same QR group).

    In 2005:

    It was one week till the beginning of the championships.
    We had to take a decision whether to go or not. We were at the crossroads. On one side the Worlds was taking place in Russia for the first time, on another side – the pain was enormous; without the injection I could not walk, not to speak about jumping.
    Then Mishin suggested:
    - Let’s go to Moscow, we shall explain the situation. We shall say you cannot jump and you will not take part in the competition.
    And we decided to go.

    One day before the competition begins.
    I went to train. The pain was less. I started jumping. All seemed normal. I could do the triples. I could do the three and a half. The quadruples I did not even try. It was not possible – the left crucial leg hurts like hell.
    We went to a Moscow hospital. They said the same – a pull or micro rhexis. And we decided that I should skate.
    At the evening I rang up mom:
    - Mom, we have decided that I should skate.
    - Skate? How? You haven’t skated at all, - mom was shocked.
    - I have to. I will try. They give me anaesthetics.


    World championships. First day.
    I go to skate the qualification. I do the necessary figures and the jumps.
    There is one minute left from my program and suddenly I feel that I cannot even breathe. I could neither breathe in or breathe out – this was a fit of intercostals neuralgia. And it was so strong that I had forgotten the pain in the groin. One instance more and I would lose conscience.

    I cannot take a breath and I have to skate more – to do the rotation, then the step sequence and a rotation again. I did all.

    I go to sit on the bench and I writhe up with pain. Mishin notices that I am nearly dead and says:
    - Zhanya, is it normal? Do not show anybody that you feel bad.
    And I sat as if nothing has happened and even tried to smile as far as I can remember. But it was awful.

    World Championships, second day.
    I wake up and I realize I cannot walk. My left leg is very heavy, as if it is not mine. But we with Alexey Nikolaevich take a final decision that I should skate.
    It was the day of the short program. I was given some strong anaesthetics.
    Warm-up. Usually when I go out and look at the audience I can clearly see the faces. I see the clothes of the people, the expression of their faces, I even look them into the eyes. This time I could not see anybody – only silhouettes, everything blurred in front of my eyes from the pain.
    The warm up was almost normal. It is true, the quadruple I did not even try. We decide again – I shall skate the short.
    I go to perform and fall down on the quadruple. The pain in the groin comes again and stronger than before. No anaesthetics can stop it any more.
    But I skate till the end. And I become the third. I still had the chance to become a champion of the world for 2005. For this, I had to skate the same elements which I had shown at the qualification.

    World championships. Third day.
    This was the day of the free program. I woke up in the morning and realized I could not get up. Every movement was a torture. The pain was beating all over my body.
    I rang mom up:
    - Mom, I cannot walk, sit or lie down. And today is the free program.
    - Zhenya, don’t dare to skate! – Mom understood immediately that I was not simply feeling bad, I was on the verge between life and death. – You have already won three championships! I know you have to fight for Russia, but if you can’t you have to refuse and go away from the competition. Take care of your health, the next year is very important for us.
    Then mom rang Mishin up:
    - Alexey Nikolaevich, I don’t know your opinion, but I forbid him to skate.
    In spite of all, we hoped till the last minute that the pain would stop. We waited for a miracle to happen. I did not allow any injections any more, I had had enough.
    No miracle happened though.
    I wrote down an explanation that I would not participate.
    The World championships in 2005 in Moscow was won by the Swiss Stephane Lambiel.
    ____
    his first show after injury http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Piijc1x748 the Winner..So true

  5. #125
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    You mean 2005 Worlds QR which he won over Stefan Lindemann and Chengjiang Li?! Had he competed in the difficult qualifying group, he would have lost the QR to Lambiel (even if Lambiel was only marginally better in terms of score, you can bet the margin between them would have been greater if they were in the same QR group).

    I acknowledge that he was injured in Euros 2013, yaya and gmers, so with an injury and no quad in his SP, I have no idea what he was trying to prove or if he actually thought he had a chance to win. Even if he had gone clean with his SP content he still might not have been in podium position (certainly not leading or even close to the lead). Perhaps after his good showing at Russian nationals he thought he was prepared.

    If his reasoning was to "stay in the game", while risking further injury, then I question his judgment. Fernandez/Amodio/Joubert were all legit threats (and Brezina as well), and Plushenko being off the podium was a reality, particularly if he was injured. The result was a poor SP with no quad and a withdrawal, which far outweighed any gains he might have made by still staying in the game.

    I think my point in all of this is that I hope Euros was a wakeup call to him that he really needs to only compete at close to full strength (certainly not while he's injured), and pick his pre-Russian nationals competitions carefully, and budget his energy if he wants to make a legitimate run for Sochi. Once he gets to the Olympics, hopefully he will skate well but unlike his 2006 Olympics (and somewhat unlike his 2010 Olympics) he will have to depend on his competitors making major errors in order to win, even if he skates clean.
    Maybe he was stupid enough to compete in EC2013? Will this satisfy you? You can conclude that he is so arrogant to think that he could win again. As you wish.

    I remember now that he said in his interview that he decided not to perform quad just before the competition and I think it was because he realize that he could not land the quad successfully. And according to your logic even if he was clean in SP, he could anyway not win, he should just quit before SP. Or he should just try quad and injure himself during the competition.

    But why discuss about these? Just to prove that Plushenko is not competitive without quads? That without quads he is just an average skater? OK, I get your opinion, can you now rest on this topic?

    Wake up call? Plushenko is a very professional person who love this sport, he knows what he is doing, he knows his enemy, and he knows that he is not ISU's favorites now so if his health allow him to compete, he certainly will give his all. You do not need to worry for him (and of course if he could not compete, it certainly will make a lot of people happy).

  6. #126
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,854
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    You mean 2005 Worlds QR which he won over Stefan Lindemann and Chengjiang Li?! Had he competed in the difficult qualifying group, he would have lost the QR to Lambiel (even if Lambiel was only marginally better in terms of score, you can bet the margin between them would have been greater if they were in the same QR group).

    I acknowledge that he was injured in Euros 2013, yaya and gmers, so with an injury and no quad in his SP, I have no idea what he was trying to prove or if he actually thought he had a chance to win. Even if he had gone clean with his SP content he still might not have been in podium position (certainly not leading or even close to the lead). Perhaps after his good showing at Russian nationals he thought he was prepared.

    If his reasoning was to "stay in the game", while risking further injury, then I question his judgment. Fernandez/Amodio/Joubert were all legit threats (and Brezina as well), and Plushenko being off the podium was a reality, particularly if he was injured. The result was a poor SP with no quad and a withdrawal, which far outweighed any gains he might have made by still staying in the game.

    I think my point in all of this is that I hope Euros was a wakeup call to him that he really needs to only compete at close to full strength (certainly not while he's injured), and pick his pre-Russian nationals competitions carefully, and budget his energy if he wants to make a legitimate run for Sochi. Once he gets to the Olympics, hopefully he will skate well but unlike his 2006 Olympics (and somewhat unlike his 2010 Olympics) he will have to depend on his competitors making major errors in order to win, even if he skates clean.
    Well it is fact that even if he tries to budget his energy the Olympics themselves destroy that because he must do 2 sp's and 2 lp's so all that is thrown out the window. The very team event may make it likely that he doesn't even try for Sochi maybe. He can try to budget all he wants but unless he does the whole no triple axel no quad programs in the team event then his whole Olympics might be damaged.

    2012 showed he can leave quad out of his SP and win the lp and the competition. It was just the previous year. It is exactly because he lost the ability to do triple axel that he left the competition! If he can't even do 3A forget quad in the LP!

    Staying out of competition from 2006 to 2009 was a problem for him going into 2010 so he wasn't going to repeat that! Being an active competitor is better than not being a competitor because then no one believes you actually will or can. Like with Lysacek!

  7. #127
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,854
    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    In 2005:

    It was one week till the beginning of the championships.
    We had to take a decision whether to go or not. We were at the crossroads. On one side the Worlds was taking place in Russia for the first time, on another side – the pain was enormous; without the injection I could not walk, not to speak about jumping.
    Then Mishin suggested:
    - Let’s go to Moscow, we shall explain the situation. We shall say you cannot jump and you will not take part in the competition.
    And we decided to go.

    One day before the competition begins.
    I went to train. The pain was less. I started jumping. All seemed normal. I could do the triples. I could do the three and a half. The quadruples I did not even try. It was not possible – the left crucial leg hurts like hell.
    We went to a Moscow hospital. They said the same – a pull or micro rhexis. And we decided that I should skate.
    At the evening I rang up mom:
    - Mom, we have decided that I should skate.
    - Skate? How? You haven’t skated at all, - mom was shocked.
    - I have to. I will try. They give me anaesthetics.


    World championships. First day.
    I go to skate the qualification. I do the necessary figures and the jumps.
    There is one minute left from my program and suddenly I feel that I cannot even breathe. I could neither breathe in or breathe out – this was a fit of intercostals neuralgia. And it was so strong that I had forgotten the pain in the groin. One instance more and I would lose conscience.

    I cannot take a breath and I have to skate more – to do the rotation, then the step sequence and a rotation again. I did all.

    I go to sit on the bench and I writhe up with pain. Mishin notices that I am nearly dead and says:
    - Zhanya, is it normal? Do not show anybody that you feel bad.
    And I sat as if nothing has happened and even tried to smile as far as I can remember. But it was awful.

    World Championships, second day.
    I wake up and I realize I cannot walk. My left leg is very heavy, as if it is not mine. But we with Alexey Nikolaevich take a final decision that I should skate.
    It was the day of the short program. I was given some strong anaesthetics.
    Warm-up. Usually when I go out and look at the audience I can clearly see the faces. I see the clothes of the people, the expression of their faces, I even look them into the eyes. This time I could not see anybody – only silhouettes, everything blurred in front of my eyes from the pain.
    The warm up was almost normal. It is true, the quadruple I did not even try. We decide again – I shall skate the short.
    I go to perform and fall down on the quadruple. The pain in the groin comes again and stronger than before. No anaesthetics can stop it any more.
    But I skate till the end. And I become the third. I still had the chance to become a champion of the world for 2005. For this, I had to skate the same elements which I had shown at the qualification.

    World championships. Third day.
    This was the day of the free program. I woke up in the morning and realized I could not get up. Every movement was a torture. The pain was beating all over my body.
    I rang mom up:
    - Mom, I cannot walk, sit or lie down. And today is the free program.
    - Zhenya, don’t dare to skate! – Mom understood immediately that I was not simply feeling bad, I was on the verge between life and death. – You have already won three championships! I know you have to fight for Russia, but if you can’t you have to refuse and go away from the competition. Take care of your health, the next year is very important for us.
    Then mom rang Mishin up:
    - Alexey Nikolaevich, I don’t know your opinion, but I forbid him to skate.
    In spite of all, we hoped till the last minute that the pain would stop. We waited for a miracle to happen. I did not allow any injections any more, I had had enough.
    No miracle happened though.
    I wrote down an explanation that I would not participate.
    The World championships in 2005 in Moscow was won by the Swiss Stephane Lambiel.
    ____
    his first show after injury http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Piijc1x748 the Winner..So true
    What a major drama! His mom calling Mishin! No skating! Very interesting!

    So similar to Euros 2013! Tries to do that and then after has a disc replaced in his spine! So similar.

  8. #128
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    3,028
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    What a major drama! His mom calling Mishin! No skating! Very interesting!

    So similar to Euros 2013! Tries to do that and then after has a disc replaced in his spine! So similar.
    Yes, totally similar. I hope the sequel will be very similar. and that is not surprising that he wanted to compete on Euros 2012 and 2013.

    "And we with Mishin returned to Petersburg.
    Nothing helped against the pain. Then the journalists attacked me. They wrote down that I went away from the competition out of fear. It was insulting, I was never afraid of anybody.
    The response of the Federation I did not like too. As if they stopped believing in me. There started rumours that I skated badly, that I had no pain at all, I am simply not in a good shape. That I was not the same any more…

    The pain could not be stopped with anything.
    Then suddenly there came an advice from my friend and a famous football player Sasha Kerzhakov:
    - Zhenya, in our club we have a very good doctor. Come here, he will see you.
    I went together with mom and Alexey Nikolaevich.
    The doctor examined me and said:
    - It seems you have a hernia.
    - What for a hernia! – Mishin could not believe.
    - I will ring up in Germany. There is a very good doctor there, I will arrange things and they will see you there. If the doctor says that you need an operation, do not hesitate to do it. Doctor Muschaweck is a marvelous sport specialist.

    We went to München. We were met and taken to the hospital.
    There came in the room several doctors and among them a middle-aged woman. It appeared she was the legendary doctor, who had cured and brought round so many sportsmen. I was stunned. Later I was told that Frau Muschaweck not only made fantastical operations and was a marvelous diagnostician, but she was a sportsman too – every morning she was running six kilometers to work.
    Doctor Muschawek examined me and immediately put a diagnosis:
    - You have two groin hernias as big as a common walnut. How did you possibly skate? You need an urgent operation. All will be normal, you will be able to skate again and win the Olympics.
    I was much afraid. At the evening we discussed it with mom.
    - Mom, do I have to do this?
    - Don’t be afraid. If doctor Muschaweck says so, it is true, you have to trust her.


    On the next day they made the first operation. One day later they made one more. The hernias were cut away and photographed. Mom still has the photos.
    Doctor Muschaweck recommended :
    - One hour after the operation you have to stand up and start walking slowly. After one week you should start running.
    She had her own method – not to lie down at any case. The muscles had to become stronger, not to go slack.
    - Zhenya, you will win the Olympics, - smiled she, - I believe in you.
    - I will do my best.- I believed in that too.

    Naturally, after the operation skating was out of the question. I had to recover"


    Russian media is not as benign as a Canadian ..

  9. #129
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    2,184
    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    But why discuss about these? Just to prove that Plushenko is not competitive without quads?
    Everyone is not competitive without quads now, if that is what CSG keeps discussing.

  10. #130
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,365
    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Look at that,please..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBJtNXvyWbg from last year

    in 2006 that was enough, by far...
    I am not particularly a Plushy fan but I think he would have won Worlds this year with this program. It's not only the quads. His jumps may not be pretty, but he lands them.

  11. #131
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    5,489
    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Everyone is not competitive without quads now, if that is what CSG keeps discussing.
    Yes. In context of the thread title, those vying for the Olympic title can't be competitive without quads because there are far too many skaters who have also mastered the other elements and PCS as well as the quad. Playing it safe will not cut it anymore (I say that to Plushenko's competitors who previously lowered the content), and should top PCS earners like Hanyu/Fernandez/Chan/Takahashi have a clean SP with quads and their competitors don't, said competitors will face at least a 5-7 point disadvantage going into the FS. At least a quad attempt will be mandatory in the SP and LP in Sochi. Back in 2010 at the Olympics, most of the top 10 hadn't mastered the quad (arguably Lambiel, who struggled with 3A, and Plushenko were consistent and the only ones to attempt it in the SP). I have every confidence that Plushenko will incorporate quad attempts in both, should he be competing, as there's no way he (or anyone really) could contend without them.

  12. #132
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    3,028
    Mishin and Plushy are very smart men, They know very well, what need to do. In this video we can see, how much he has evolved, adapted to the requirements. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7unAy2WY_s I chose it because the video was made in very good angle.
    Had he bad SS? Plushy's PCS will be lower? Let me remind you this: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    Camerlengo:
    ...
    Evgeni is really capable. He surprised me with his ability and skills as a skater. I'd ask, 'Why haven't you done that before?' He did so many things, but in a competitive program you have to consider all the time the elements, the jumps, the timing, the stamina, many things. So you cannot really skate a program using all of your skills, [including] all the steps you can do and all of the other things you can do on the ice. Because you have to think, 'If I overload the program, I'm not able to do the elements.' And in the end, the elements give you the results.

    " He feels so motivated; he wants to show everybody, 'I can do this, I can do that.' Why he didn't do more of that before, I cannot say, but his [winning] history makes him right."

    "- Icenetwork.com: If Plushenko does compete at the world championships again, he'll have to compete against Patrick Chan, Daisuke Takahashi.
    -Camerlengo: He can do it. Of course, he is 30 years old and he's going to be the oldest one of the whole group, but he has good technique and such skills when he skates. I think he can make it. I think he can go and show up there with the program and compete, for sure. He won [2012] Europeans with a big score.
    He has everything he needs to compete at the same level with all the others and even more, because he has such amazing experience, and he has a charisma that is so amazing on the ice. Already, when he is just standing on the ice, the people watch him so [intently]."

    Brian Orser: "Since last year, I am a fan of Plushenko" ( google translater)
    ...
    After what he did at the last European Championships in Sheffield, I became a fan of him. It is true. I remember i was thinking, OK, we have to admit he is the God of figure skating, if he can fight like this. It was just amazing! I did see him in training - so calm, even relaxed. But Plushenko knows exactly how to get together when he goes to the start. I know that he really wants to come to Sochi and I can only wish him a full recovery and get in shape. People like he, pushing all the other forward. This is for my students. They look at him with wide eyes. In addition, Plushenko - one of those people that surrounds a special aura, they create a special atmosphere around them. And it's impossible not to notice.

  13. #133
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    5,489
    I agree with Orser in that I'm much more a fan of him as of last year than before. And also agree with Camerlengo that it's a shame he didn't show that before. I wouldn't say he's a much better or worse skater now than before (since he was likely capable of everything he did in 2012 back in 2010, if not more capable); I commend him for starting to show what he's capable of as a skater and not just as a jumper.

  14. #134
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,838
    I have to confess that I don't get the talk about Plushenko "budgeting" his quads. He can do a quad in the team event. Then rest up for a week and do another one or two in the individual competition. It's not like you are only allowed a certain number in your career and are in danger of using up your quota. (Quads are a renewable resource. )

    The other thing is, I do not think it is necessary for Plushenko (or for Chan either) to worry about whether someone might do two quads in the short and four quads in the long, or something like that. No one has shown that he can do all that while still hitting his other elements, giving a convincing presentation, and not running out of gas at the end. IMHO it will not be the base value on paper that will win the Olympics, but rather excellent execution of your planned elements.

  15. #135
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    243
    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    In Euros 2012 Plush received 176,.. points.
    As you see, this competition doesn't exist for some fans
    They pretend as real competitor Plushenko with three Oly medals doesn’t exist either, even he told so many times that Oly 2014 is most important competition in his whole skating career.
    Euro 2012 most memorable for FS, because so many people in Europe gathered to Sheffield to witness Plushenko skate, and he didn’t disappoint audience



    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    You are correct! It needs to be said again!

    It's very obvious why Plushenko would not do a quad in a SP and lose the SP like in 2012 and try to save a quad for the FS but he was too injured to even do a 3A! The issue was just competing and staying in the game. But if he didn't even have a 3a come on!
    He had nice 3A during practice

Page 9 of 51 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •