World Team Trophy 2013 Men | Page 14 | Golden Skate

World Team Trophy 2013 Men

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Because it was a bailed 4T, that 3T had huge distance and height, and good flow on the landing -- the marring quality about it was the air position and the lack of transitions going into it, but a novice skater would not go into a 3T with that much speed or get that much distance. As you can see, most judges gave him 0 (and one gave -1) for that because it was obviously a bailed quad, but it was still a giant 3T. And what's the big deal? He got 4.3 points with +0.2 GOE anyways? If all judges gave him -1, he would have gotten 3.4 points.

Time set- the time when your post was posted. Since now no one will ever remember that Chan was booed in Nice and that he won two Worlds titles in the row that he didn't deserve. Yes, no one will ever mention it. Check up later. :biggrin:
I too can type. Chan is not a superior skater in the field, there are others who are of a better quality. But the Chan defenders's love of him makes them adamantly refuse to acknowledge other skaters' skating ability, their general higher base value/GOE, and the fact that they don't butt most of their jumps/spins. It's kind of hilarious (if not pathetic) and this will go on...

:laugh:

As much as you want to bash him, he still wins or places high because he's a good skater, so that's just something you're going to have to accept. :laugh: If he weren't a superior skater in the field (and obviously I've acknowledged that other skaters have superior qualities, like Dai's PE/IN) he wouldn't be getting the PCS he gets. And for those crying about his PCS, he was 7.5 points lower than his personal best and received just 8.00 for PE, and lost the PE/IN PCS marks to Abbott and Takahashi.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
No, he was mad when he finished but got a wide smile when he saw the score- "I am still the best. Almost." I am sure if it were not WTT and not in Japan, PChan might have won. Pretty much the same scenario happened in the Canadian London.


MENSHOV! :cry::cry: What a great reminder of how dangerous this sport can be. Skaters who risk their health daily every time when they step on the ice, do deserve at least to be rewarded fairly by the fair judgement. What shameful days for fs are now. I can't take seriously anything about Chan anymore or anyone who wishes to defend him. I can pity "Poor Patrick". I can't accept. Sorry, plushyfan. I know you were sarcastic. ;)


Congrats to Daisuke!!! He did perfect trixels in a warm-up, probably that accident with Menshov could affect his performance, somehow, because he had to show up earlier. They gave him the extra time though. In a warm-up he landed two rotated quads, one- the second toe touched the ice, another one- one hand on the ice. Anyway, he could pull it and was so happy. I don't need to say anything about the performance and the attitude at all. He is a religion here. :love::love:

Congrats to Dai!!!!! And to the orther skaters! You know,when I saw Patrick's last fall, I sorry for him at the moment. Really, I wasn't sarcastic. But I agree with those people, who think his PCS were too high again.

The Japanese audience was amazing!!!
 

yaya124

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
As much as you want to bash him, he still wins or places high because he's a good skater, so that's just something you're going to have to accept. :laugh: If he weren't a superior skater in the field (and obviously I've acknowledged that other skaters have superior qualities, like Dai's PE/IN) he wouldn't be getting the PCS he gets. And for those crying about his PCS, he was 7.5 points lower than his personal best and received just 8.00 for PE, and lost the PE/IN PCS marks to Abbott and Takahashi.

3 falls end it up with 8.0 PE, that is not normal for Chan apparently, he should at least get 8.39 if his WC performance is justified (one fall should cost him only 0.25 points in PE apparently I learned from the other post).

Chan is really the greatest skater ever:laugh: Judges are not doing their job here.
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
MEN'S FREE SKATE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

1. Daisuke TAKAHASHI (JPN) - 249.52 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
2. Patrick CHAN (CAN) - 240.21 Free Skate
3. Kevin REYNOLDS (CAN) - 237.65 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
4. Max AARON (USA) - 236.62 Free Skate
5. Takahito MURA (JPN) - 233.68 Free Skate
6. Jeremy ABBOTT (USA) - 231.84 Free Skate
7. Brian JOUBERT (FRA) - 227.95 Free Skate
8. Maxim KOVTUN (RUS) - 221.79 Free Skate
9. Han YAN (CHN) - 207.81 Free Skate
10. Yi WANG (CHN) - 183.57 Free Skate
11. Romain PONSART (FRA) - 165.59 Free Skate
WD. Konstantin MENSHOV (RUS)
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Awful about Menshov. Kovtun tried to make his FS easier but it didn't work out. He didn't do 2 triple axels just one. The Russian federation decided once that how he performs at nationals didn't matter but I don't think they'll do that again. He may actually have to impress in a senior competition and do well which he hasn't done at all even including euros 2013. Not one good competition as a senior.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
3 falls end it up with 8.0 PE, that is not normal for Chan apparently, he should at least get 8.39 if his WC performance is justified (one fall should cost him only 0.25 points in PE apparently I learned from the other post).

Chan is really the greatest skater ever:laugh: Judges are not doing their job here.

Actually, I think 8.00 is fair for Chan's PE, considering all the errors. At 2012 Rostelcom (his cleanest FS of the season), with no falls, he got a personal best PCS score with PE of 9.14. His PE at Worlds was 8.61, which was too high - should have been around 8.25. With 3 falls and other errors, it makes sense for his PE to be over a full point lower than what he gets with a clean skate.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Awful about Menshov. Kovtun tried to make his FS easier but it didn't work out. He didn't do 2 triple axels just one. The Russian federation decided once that how he performs at nationals didn't matter but I don't think they'll do that again. He may actually have to impress in a senior competition and do well which he hasn't done at all even including euros 2013. Not one good competition as a senior.

Not true - he did well at Euros... which was the reason the Russian Federation sent him to Worlds. I feel really bad for the guy. He simply wasn't ready.
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
And I think everyone remembers S/P as gold medalists from SLC... in fact, they were the Denis Ten of that FS... went clean but still came 2nd to a flawed FS by B/S.

Nope. Sale Pelletier will be always remember for crying everywhere in the medias in order to get a OGM they didn't deserved on the ice as the initial judgement stated. Moreover they did so with one of the easiest LP they ever skated, all on 2 feet, no transitions at all, standing face to face for ten second doing nothing and full of illegal elements against one of the hardest LP technically ever (only toped/on the same level as S/S's Pina), executed mostly on one foot with difficult transitions everywhere and mainly before big elements, way better skating skills, interpretation, choreography and artistry. Yes, there was a step up, a very minor error given he executed the rest of the combination in synch and the overall difficulty. Oh and even if you erased Le Gougne marks for the LP, the russians still won the SP, TFP under the canadian's = winners.
The canadians were lucky the Games were in NA and medias went crazy putting an awful lot of pressure against the ISU during their biggest money racking event ; the IOC being so uneducated in skating and PC didn't hurt either.

Remember me why do you think Chan deserved his flawed victories ? And unlike him, B/S were 98% clean. They surely didn't spent their olympics LP on their butts.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
As much as you want to bash him, he still wins or places high because he's a good skater, so that's just something you're going to have to accept. :laugh: If he weren't a superior skater in the field (and obviously I've acknowledged that other skaters have superior qualities, like Dai's PE/IN) he wouldn't be getting the PCS he gets.
As much as you want to defend him, he is a booed WC who stole the title twice in the row because he is not that much better skater than the rest of the field, so that's just smth you're going to have to accept. If he were indeed that superior skater, his PCS and score in general wouldn't have been questioned by fans/skaters/coaches/fs community.

I told you I too can type. Yawn.
Maybe we can call the 2010-2014 the Butt era?;)
3 falls end it up with 8.0 PE, that is not normal for Chan apparently, he should at least get 8.39 if his WC performance is justified (one fall should cost him only 0.25 points in PE apparently I learned from the other post).

Chan is really the greatest skater ever:laugh: Judges are not doing their job here.
:rofl: You guys are awesome! The Butt era. Hillarious! :thumbsup:

Awful about Menshov.
Menshov at J-ambulance: https://twitter.com/kudryavkaaa/status/322703294818553856/photo/1
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Nope. Sale Pelletier will be always remember for crying everywhere in the medias in order to get a OGM they didn't deserved on the ice as the initial judgement stated. Moreover they did so with one of the easiest LP they ever skated, all on 2 feet, no transitions at all, standing face to face for ten second doing nothing and full of illegal elements against one of the hardest LP technically ever (only toped/on the same level as S/S's Pina), executed mostly on one foot with difficult transitions everywhere and mainly before big elements, way better skating skills, interpretation, choreography and artistry. Yes, there was a step up, a very minor error given he executed the rest of the combination in synch and the overall difficulty. Oh and even if you erased Le Gougne marks for the LP, the russians still won the SP, TFP under the canadian's = winners.
The canadians were lucky the Games were in NA and medias went crazy putting an awful lot of pressure against the ISU during their biggest money racking event ; the IOC being so uneducated in skating and PC didn't hurt either.

Remember me why do you think Chan deserved his flawed victories ? And unlike him, B/S were 98% clean. They surely didn't spent their olympics LP on their butts.

a) I've said he doesn't deserve every victory that's been flawed, b) he deserves his flawed victories because he is the best, or one of the best skaters, which garners - under this system - points that allow him to win in spite of errors, c) he's not the only skater to have victories with errors - in fact, most of the men have at least one victory with errors, including falls, d) you're honestly comparing the falling potential of a freeskater who does quads with pair skaters who don't have nearly as many jumping passes - and easier jumps at that.

Sale and Pelletier were potentially cheated of a gold medal, because the French judge admitted to cheating and deliberately placing the Russians ahead in a 5-4 decision. Whether a different judge would have still given B/S the win or S/P the win is something we will never know. But saying B/S won the short as some arbitrary tiebreaker is BS, because as we know under 6.0 anyone in the top 3 after the SP, if the won the FS, would win overall... and with a non-cheating judge, that could have been S/P. Your tiebreaker is as arbitrary and biased as if I said "the tiebreaker should be to add up all the technical and artistic scores of the remaining judges in the FS and whichever team has a higher total should win" ... "oh and it happens to be S/P, look at that... no, it doesn't work like that. What happened was obviously to save face, but the reality is 4 (supposedly) non-cheating judges chose S/P and 4 (supposedly) non-cheating judges chose B/S.
 

zschultz1986

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
As much as you want to bash him, he still wins or places high because he's a good skater, so that's just something you're going to have to accept. :laugh: If he weren't a superior skater in the field (and obviously I've acknowledged that other skaters have superior qualities, like Dai's PE/IN) he wouldn't be getting the PCS he gets. And for those crying about his PCS, he was 7.5 points lower than his personal best and received just 8.00 for PE, and lost the PE/IN PCS marks to Abbott and Takahashi.

I don't think I've ever said he wasn't a good skater. I've said a whole host of other things about him :biggrin: but never that I didn't know that he has the best basic skating skills out of the crop today.

I mean, it's just wrong. He had 3 falls, a stumble out of another jump, a single axel. We keep talking about the inflation on the Free, however, the big problem is the insurmountable lead Chan usually seems to accrue with the short. He was 6 points clear (which is a fall+) with a messy short. 2 Judges actually gave him -2 on the URed Quad in the short! Yes his skating skills are bar none, right now. However, that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be marked fairly and NO they aren't light-years ahead of everyone else.

My problem with the bold text, CanadianSkaterGuy, is that 7.5 points isn't enough, and this goes for everyone. PCS Criteria are kept within a range of each other, and that is wrong. The strength of Chan's basic skating keeps some of his other PCS critera (which should be abysmal) artificially high. The PCS marks needs to be individual, uncoupled from each other. You're trying to make a case that his 8 in PE is justifiable, given all his other scores this year. However, it's a flawed argument, because ALL of his PE scores are way over inflated. 4 of his 12 elements were bad, and the last one, he didn't even do at all.. nearly 50 percent of his elements, in his free, we're "flawed to terrible: -GOE" Yet, he deserves an 8 in PE?

It deserves a 5-6 in P/E. It just does.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I think Max could feel a little aggreived at not being on the podium...

Max needs to do intensive work on his spins, as they are holding him back. If he hadn't fallen on the 3a, he would have beaten Reynolds, who was just 1.03 ahead.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Chan feels entitled to the top of the podium even when he makes huge mistakes because he's convinced he is the best skater in the world. But being the best skater in the world is POTENTIAL. The PERFORMANCE has to display the potential at its best. Chan's performances, particularly in the FS, have not shown his skating skills in a good light. If he continues down this road with no technical coach, he won't win the OGM and possibly may not be on the podium.

There are other skaters with tremendous potential who are eager to perform to their potential and they are gaining on Chan. It is SO much easier to be the chaser than the chased.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Not true - he did well at Euros... which was the reason the Russian Federation sent him to Worlds. I feel really bad for the guy. He simply wasn't ready.

His axel in the SP was a double and he did 4 combos in the free skate. And it wasn't that he didn't do 3 official combos before he did the 4th. He really didn't know what he was doing. Usually a skater misses a combo and tries to do it on another jump which sometimes backfires he just did 4 combos. And the double axel just is a technical mistake. He wound up the highest ranking RUssian there but he showed real indications that he shouldn't go to worlds.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Chan feels entitled to the top of the podium even when he makes huge mistakes because he's convinced he is the best skater in the world. But being the best skater in the world is POTENTIAL. The PERFORMANCE has to display the potential at its best. Chan's performances, particularly in the FS, have not shown his skating skills in a good light. If he continues down this road with no technical coach, he won't win the OGM and possibly may not be on the podium.

There are other skaters with tremendous potential who are eager to perform to their potential and they are gaining on Chan. It is SO much easier to be the chaser than the chased.

Oh, they've already gained on him. He's lost 3 times this season, (4 times, if you count Worlds). But he's also had some good freeskates, namely Cup of Russia and the Grand Prix final. If you compare the other guys' season, they've also had excellent skates resulting in wins, and really poor skates resulting in losses. The field is much more even now, particularly now that skaters with high difficulty like Fernandez, Hanyu and Reynolds have improved their overall skating, and a great artistic skater like Takahashi/Chan have shown technical inconsistency, and surprise skates from skaters like Ten.

Overall, Chan is certainly one of the best skaters in the World. I think he felt entitled to win over Ten, which was arrogant of him, but I don't think he can argue beating the other guys when they don't step up, and that's a matter of those guys not displaying their potential at their best. It really depends on the day too -- I mean look at Chan's Worlds SP and then his WTT SP; look at Fernandez's Euros SP and then his World SP; look at Hanyu's great SPs in the season and SP at Worlds. The field is vastly inconsistent, which shades of potential being met and other days where they bomb.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
I just checked the results and the videos, and I can say that I'm shocked by Chan's program: it looked like if he wasn't even TRYING to do those jumps, after the fall in the 3A... :slink: I think that her really felt bad after Worlds, because of all the critics about his win, so he wanted to redeem himself here and show everyone that he can skate well, but he didn't, and that's why he looked so disappointed, I think; it has to be extremely frustrating: knowing that you CAN do it, but not being able to do it...
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
You're trying to make a case that his 8 in PE is justifiable, given all his other scores this year. However, it's a flawed argument, because ALL of his PE scores are way over inflated. 4 of his 12 elements were bad, and the last one, he didn't even do at all.. nearly 50 percent of his elements, in his free, we're "flawed to terrible: -GOE" Yet, he deserves an 8 in PE?

It deserves a 5-6 in P/E. It just does.

You forgot the fundamental in your argument. PE wasn't counted by elements. There are other non-element moments which will be counted in PE.;)
 
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