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Thread: World Team Trophy 2013 Men

  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    To follow your suit, Chan had only one fall, a stepout in 3A was not disruptive mistake as you said. The artistic aspects of a program were subjective. You think Takahashi was better, but the judges think Chan was better. Tell me why the judges have to go your way?!
    The guy asked me why did Takahashi get 90 for pcs for a performance with a fall and a stepout (the only disruptive mistakes) in the LONG program. I answer: He skated an inspired, full of passion program and got those marks.

    Chan did the same amount of disruptive mistakes as he did, and still got HIGHER pcs. At 2013 worlds, he did 4 serious serious mistakes including 2(?) falls , skated like a zombie and almost got 90 again. So, Takahashi was not the overscored guy here. I'm not complaining that Dai deserved better pcs, what I'm saying is that Patrick Chan is overscored. And that's so obvious for everybody except patrick's fans and corrupt judges.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    Why don't you actually answer the whole post instead of avoiding the important points? So, do you really think those pcs were fair? Don't you see that the other skaters (Takahashi and Hanyu) get low placements when they make serious mistakes? Didn't you notice that commentators, public, most of the fans, media, experts and other skaters_except patrick fans and judges, of course_ disagree with Chan's gold medal?Thanks!
    About 2013 Worlds? Honestly, yes, Patrick's PCS was fair. I'll take Patrick's two fall LP over Ten's no fall LP any day. As you all said, jumps are not the only thing in figure skating.

    As of this time's WTT, I cannot answer you at this point because I've only watched Takahashi and Chan's SPs.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Who should have won GPF?

    When Plu should have been off the podium due to his Chan-like skating in years but he wasn't?

    Keep your posts constructve if your please.
    Hanyu should have won the GPF. And arguably Fernandez, who was marked pretty harshly in the SP and should have gotten at least a silver over Takahashi.

    BTW, Chan was 5.8 points higher than Takahashi on TES, so even for him to place 2nd behind Takahashi the judges would have had to given him about 38.23 (so, PCS scores averaging 7.64, which even if you hate Chan you've got to admit is too low).

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    About 2013 Worlds? Honestly, yes, Patrick's PCS was fair.
    Thank you! I'm relieved now. I've got nothing else to say and I finally know that this discussion is a complete waste of time. Go and celebrate Patrick's beautiful and fair victories forever !!

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    The guy asked me why did Takahashi get 90 for pcs for a performance with a fall and a stepout (the only disruptive mistakes) in the LONG program. I answer: He skated an inspired, full of passion program and got those marks.

    Chan did the same amount of disruptive mistakes as he did, and still got HIGHER pcs. At 2013 worlds, he did 4 serious serious mistakes including 2(?) falls , skated like a zombie and almost got 90 again. So, Takahashi was not the overscored guy here. I'm not complaining that Dai deserved better pcs, what I'm saying is that Patrick Chan is overscored. And that's so obvious for everybody except patrick's fans and corrupt judges.
    If this is not clear on your biased position, I don't know what is. So Takahashi's hand-down and stepout were not disruptive. But Chan's 2 mistakes other than falls in LP were "serious serious mistakes".

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    And I'd like to remind you that Patrick made just as many mistakes as dai and still got HIGHER pcs.
    And I'd like to remind you that in the FS at the GPF, Patrick made far less mistakes (a 4T fall, a wild landing on an otherwise clean 3A) to Daisuke's (4T fall, 4T-3T<, 3A-stepout, 3A-hand-down) and essentially tied Daisuke on PCS (Dai won SS/PE, Chan won TR/IN and they tied in CH). How could Dai beat him in PE when he made more errors? (And a stepout/hand down might not be disruptive, but it sure is ugly.)

    Fernandez/Hanyu both got less PCS marks (82.5/85) than Daisuke/Chan (90) in the FS, in spite of the latter two having "disruptive" errors.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    If this is not clear on your biased position, I don't know what is. So Takahashi's hand-down and stepout were not disruptive. But Chan's 2 mistakes other than falls in LP were "serious serious mistakes".
    Exactly. Chan's 3Z->2Z and 3F-3S(stepout) are "serious serious"/disruptive, but when Daisuke does a 3A(stepout) or a 3A(hand-down), all of a sudden it isn't?!

  8. #173
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    MEN'S SHORT PROGRAM - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

    1. Patrick CHAN (CAN) - 86.67 Short Program, 2nd Copy
    2. Daisuke TAKAHASHI (JPN) - 80.87 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
    3. Konstantin MENSHOV (RUS) - 80.60 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
    4. Jeremy ABBOTT (USA) - 80.24 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
    5. Takahito MURA (JPN) - 77.65 Short Program, 2nd Copy
    6. Max AARON (USA) - 77.38 Short Program
    7. Maxim KOVTUN (RUS) - 76.67 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
    8. Brian JOUBERT (FRA) - 76.55 Short Program
    9. Kevin REYNOLDS (CAN) - 73.52 Short Program
    10. Han YAN (CHN) - 64.54 Short Program
    11. Yi WANG (CHN) - 58.30 Short Program
    12. Romain PONSART (FRA) - 57.39 Short Program

    Opening Ceremony (2, 3)

    Brian Joubert Interview

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Hanyu should have won the GPF.
    No, he couldn't. He won neither SP nor FS. He was 5 points behind Dai in SP and in FS he was over Dai with 0.01 point, which is not enough to cover 5 points gap for everyone who sudied math.
    And arguably Fernandez, who was marked pretty harshly in the SP
    Javi was 9 points behind Chan in SP. Chan was overscored you are saying?
    BTW, Chan was 5.8 points higher than Takahashi on TES, so even for him to place 2nd behind Takahashi the judges would have had to given him about 38.23 (so, PCS scores averaging 7.64, which even if you hate Chan you've got to admit is too low).
    Don't worry. They made it sure that your guy medaled again over a better guy.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    No, he couldn't. He won neither SP nor FS. He was 5 points behind Dai in SP and in FS he was over Dai with 0.01 point, which is not enough to cover 5 points gap for everyone who sudied math. Javi was 9 points behind Chan in SP. Chan was overscored you are saying?
    Don't worry. They made it sure that your guy medaled again over a better guy.
    LOL not really important. The points yes are important but winning neither SP and LP doesn't matter. Mao Asada 2010 worlds.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Exactly. Chan's 3Z->2Z and 3F-3S(stepout) are "serious serious"/disruptive, but when Daisuke does a 3A(stepout) or a 3A(hand-down), all of a sudden it isn't?!
    How many Worlds gold medal Dai won with "serious/disruptive errors" skating? Chan won two.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    1) No, he couldn't. He won neither SP nor FS. He was 5 points behind Dai in SP and in FS he was over Dai with 0.01 point, which is not enough to cover 5 points gap for everyone who sudied math.

    2) Javi was 9 points behind Chan in SP. Chan was overscored you are saying?

    3)Don't worry. They made it sure that your guy medaled again over a better guy.
    1) gmyers covered that... but to elaborate, Hanyu had a fall in the SP, which matches Takahashi's fall in the LP. On top of that, Takashi had 3 more errors. With 4 errors, Takahashi was just 0.01 points behind Hanyu (who never fell or made major errors other than a 2S) in the FS. Essentially the judges gave a program with 4 errors including a fall the same score as a program with 1 error and no falls. And Fernandez - who landed 3 quads and only doubled a loop - got just one point higher than Daisuke in his FS.

    2) No, (again) I'm saying Javier was underscored. Chan's SP scores were fine.

    3) The judges didn't make sure Chan is placed higher than Takahashi -- Takahashi made sure of that when he downgraded his quad and made an error on his 3-3. Even though Takahashi's error is less visible to the casual viewer, it's more costly than Chan's fully rotated quad with a fall. Chan's PCS was less than 2 points higher than Takahashi, so it's not like the judges created such a discrepancy.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    How many Worlds gold medal Dai won with "serious/disruptive errors" skating? Chan won two.
    Yeah, and had Takahashi won Worlds in 2012 instead of Chan as people have suggested, then he would have done it with a serious error (I consider a downgrade as a serious error) in his SP. And then they'd both have 1 World title with a serious error.

    Anyways, let's wait for the FS to see how this is settled.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    How many Worlds gold medal Dai won with "serious/disruptive errors" skating? Chan won two.
    We get your point. Can you please stop now?

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trewyn View Post
    What about people who think a competition should be enjoyable to watch *without* having to study the protocol afterwards?
    The good thing if you are watching live is that the marks table is far far away and you dont see the score clearly.

    I m watching the yt videos and I hadnt realised I had not seen Abott's programs this year. Who is Ponsart from France, never heard of him, why didnt Amodio or Chaffic go?
    RF should bang their head on the wall for not sending Menshov at Worlds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    But here's the thing. This is the You Tube age. The ISU cannot continue forever to smirk and wink and tell fans to "love the protocols." In addition to loving the protocols, people also love their own eyes. The protocols say Chan skated great. The video shows him on his butt. Protocols, great. Video, butt. Which are you going to go with?


    Maybe we can call the 2010-2014 the Butt era?
    Last edited by seniorita; 04-11-2013 at 05:58 PM.

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