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Thread: World Team Trophy 2013 Men

  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I think you are not being asked because it's obvious that you will defend Chan no matter how poorly he did. It's aslo obvious that the ask-er was a Chan defender as well.

    No, sweetheart, here you are entirely wrong. The only record that will always show is that Chan was booed in Nice. Who remembers now that S/P are OGMedalists in SLC. Everyone remembers that they are the hugest scandal in this sport resulted in CoP.
    Actually, sweetheart, I haven't defended him when he does poorly and wins (assuming the other guys skate well enough). I've stated that he didn't deserve to win 2013 Worlds, and have said he rightfully deserved not to win here (and said 5th in the FS was appropriate for him).

    Years from now, nobody will remember that some of the crowd booed Chan in Nice. But until the end of time, the records will always show he won 5 World medals and 3 World Championships in a row -- and, for now, Chan still has the World Records for highest SP score, highest FS score, and highest Total Score overall. Deal with it.

    And I think everyone remembers S/P as gold medalists from SLC... in fact, they were the Denis Ten of that FS... went clean but still came 2nd to a flawed FS by B/S.

  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Years from now, nobody will remember that some of the crowd booed Chan in Nice. But until the end of time, the records will always show he won 3 World Championships in a row
    Time set- the time when your post was posted. Since now no one will ever remember that Chan was booed in Nice and that he won two Worlds titles in the row that he didn't deserve. Yes, no one will ever mention it. Check up later.
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    It's kind of hilarious (if not pathetic) and this will go on... because Patrick, like the rest of the guys, will continue to make errors but still get higher results because of how superior a skater he is. Their hatred of him makes them adamantly refuse to acknowledge his skating ability, his generally higher base value/GOE, and the fact that he rotates most of his jumps.
    I too can type. Chan is not a superior skater in the field, there are others who are of a better quality. But the Chan defenders's love of him makes them adamantly refuse to acknowledge other skaters' skating ability, their general higher base value/GOE, and the fact that they don't butt most of their jumps/spins. It's kind of hilarious (if not pathetic) and this will go on...


  3. #258
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    This is what bothers me: the majority of judges gave Patrick 8.75 for transitions, despite several falls. When a jump after a difficult transition ends with a fall, that suggests to me that that the skater did not execute the transition successfully. I know many things can go wrong with a jump, but isn't the point of "difficult transitions" precisely that the skater can include the transition and still execute the planned jump?

  4. #259
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    For me what I don't accept, in Patrick performance is that 3 judges give +1 at this awful 3T. Seriously this was a kind of triple toe that a Novice men skater who could have did cause of bad technic and save the jump by chance. It is absolutely ridiculous this 3T would have deserve 0 or -1...

  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolboogie22 View Post
    For me what I don't accept, in Patrick performance is that 3 judges give +1 at this awful 3T. Seriously this was a kind of triple toe that a Novice men skater who could have did cause of bad technic and save the jump by chance. It is absolutely ridiculous this 3T would have deserve 0 or -1...
    Maybe they gave +1 because there was difficult transitions before and after that jump? It seems like the transitions are all that matter nowadays.

  6. #261
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    Because it was a bailed 4T, that 3T had huge distance and height, and good flow on the landing -- the marring quality about it was the air position and the lack of transitions going into it, but a novice skater would not go into a 3T with that much speed or get that much distance. As you can see, most judges gave him 0 (and one gave -1) for that because it was obviously a bailed quad, but it was still a giant 3T. And what's the big deal? He got 4.3 points with +0.2 GOE anyways? If all judges gave him -1, he would have gotten 3.4 points.

    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Time set- the time when your post was posted. Since now no one will ever remember that Chan was booed in Nice and that he won two Worlds titles in the row that he didn't deserve. Yes, no one will ever mention it. Check up later.
    I too can type. Chan is not a superior skater in the field, there are others who are of a better quality. But the Chan defenders's love of him makes them adamantly refuse to acknowledge other skaters' skating ability, their general higher base value/GOE, and the fact that they don't butt most of their jumps/spins. It's kind of hilarious (if not pathetic) and this will go on...

    As much as you want to bash him, he still wins or places high because he's a good skater, so that's just something you're going to have to accept. If he weren't a superior skater in the field (and obviously I've acknowledged that other skaters have superior qualities, like Dai's PE/IN) he wouldn't be getting the PCS he gets. And for those crying about his PCS, he was 7.5 points lower than his personal best and received just 8.00 for PE, and lost the PE/IN PCS marks to Abbott and Takahashi.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    No, he was mad when he finished but got a wide smile when he saw the score- "I am still the best. Almost." I am sure if it were not WTT and not in Japan, PChan might have won. Pretty much the same scenario happened in the Canadian London.


    MENSHOV! What a great reminder of how dangerous this sport can be. Skaters who risk their health daily every time when they step on the ice, do deserve at least to be rewarded fairly by the fair judgement. What shameful days for fs are now. I can't take seriously anything about Chan anymore or anyone who wishes to defend him. I can pity "Poor Patrick". I can't accept. Sorry, plushyfan. I know you were sarcastic.


    Congrats to Daisuke!!! He did perfect trixels in a warm-up, probably that accident with Menshov could affect his performance, somehow, because he had to show up earlier. They gave him the extra time though. In a warm-up he landed two rotated quads, one- the second toe touched the ice, another one- one hand on the ice. Anyway, he could pull it and was so happy. I don't need to say anything about the performance and the attitude at all. He is a religion here.
    Congrats to Dai!!!!! And to the orther skaters! You know,when I saw Patrick's last fall, I sorry for him at the moment. Really, I wasn't sarcastic. But I agree with those people, who think his PCS were too high again.

    The Japanese audience was amazing!!!

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    As much as you want to bash him, he still wins or places high because he's a good skater, so that's just something you're going to have to accept. If he weren't a superior skater in the field (and obviously I've acknowledged that other skaters have superior qualities, like Dai's PE/IN) he wouldn't be getting the PCS he gets. And for those crying about his PCS, he was 7.5 points lower than his personal best and received just 8.00 for PE, and lost the PE/IN PCS marks to Abbott and Takahashi.
    3 falls end it up with 8.0 PE, that is not normal for Chan apparently, he should at least get 8.39 if his WC performance is justified (one fall should cost him only 0.25 points in PE apparently I learned from the other post).

    Chan is really the greatest skater ever Judges are not doing their job here.

  9. #264
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    MEN'S FREE SKATE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

    1. Daisuke TAKAHASHI (JPN) - 249.52 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
    2. Patrick CHAN (CAN) - 240.21 Free Skate
    3. Kevin REYNOLDS (CAN) - 237.65 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
    4. Max AARON (USA) - 236.62 Free Skate
    5. Takahito MURA (JPN) - 233.68 Free Skate
    6. Jeremy ABBOTT (USA) - 231.84 Free Skate
    7. Brian JOUBERT (FRA) - 227.95 Free Skate
    8. Maxim KOVTUN (RUS) - 221.79 Free Skate
    9. Han YAN (CHN) - 207.81 Free Skate
    10. Yi WANG (CHN) - 183.57 Free Skate
    11. Romain PONSART (FRA) - 165.59 Free Skate
    WD. Konstantin MENSHOV (RUS)

  10. #265
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    Awful about Menshov. Kovtun tried to make his FS easier but it didn't work out. He didn't do 2 triple axels just one. The Russian federation decided once that how he performs at nationals didn't matter but I don't think they'll do that again. He may actually have to impress in a senior competition and do well which he hasn't done at all even including euros 2013. Not one good competition as a senior.

  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    3 falls end it up with 8.0 PE, that is not normal for Chan apparently, he should at least get 8.39 if his WC performance is justified (one fall should cost him only 0.25 points in PE apparently I learned from the other post).

    Chan is really the greatest skater ever Judges are not doing their job here.
    Actually, I think 8.00 is fair for Chan's PE, considering all the errors. At 2012 Rostelcom (his cleanest FS of the season), with no falls, he got a personal best PCS score with PE of 9.14. His PE at Worlds was 8.61, which was too high - should have been around 8.25. With 3 falls and other errors, it makes sense for his PE to be over a full point lower than what he gets with a clean skate.

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Awful about Menshov. Kovtun tried to make his FS easier but it didn't work out. He didn't do 2 triple axels just one. The Russian federation decided once that how he performs at nationals didn't matter but I don't think they'll do that again. He may actually have to impress in a senior competition and do well which he hasn't done at all even including euros 2013. Not one good competition as a senior.
    Not true - he did well at Euros... which was the reason the Russian Federation sent him to Worlds. I feel really bad for the guy. He simply wasn't ready.

  13. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    And I think everyone remembers S/P as gold medalists from SLC... in fact, they were the Denis Ten of that FS... went clean but still came 2nd to a flawed FS by B/S.
    Nope. Sale Pelletier will be always remember for crying everywhere in the medias in order to get a OGM they didn't deserved on the ice as the initial judgement stated. Moreover they did so with one of the easiest LP they ever skated, all on 2 feet, no transitions at all, standing face to face for ten second doing nothing and full of illegal elements against one of the hardest LP technically ever (only toped/on the same level as S/S's Pina), executed mostly on one foot with difficult transitions everywhere and mainly before big elements, way better skating skills, interpretation, choreography and artistry. Yes, there was a step up, a very minor error given he executed the rest of the combination in synch and the overall difficulty. Oh and even if you erased Le Gougne marks for the LP, the russians still won the SP, TFP under the canadian's = winners.
    The canadians were lucky the Games were in NA and medias went crazy putting an awful lot of pressure against the ISU during their biggest money racking event ; the IOC being so uneducated in skating and PC didn't hurt either.

    Remember me why do you think Chan deserved his flawed victories ? And unlike him, B/S were 98% clean. They surely didn't spent their olympics LP on their butts.

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    As much as you want to bash him, he still wins or places high because he's a good skater, so that's just something you're going to have to accept. If he weren't a superior skater in the field (and obviously I've acknowledged that other skaters have superior qualities, like Dai's PE/IN) he wouldn't be getting the PCS he gets.
    As much as you want to defend him, he is a booed WC who stole the title twice in the row because he is not that much better skater than the rest of the field, so that's just smth you're going to have to accept. If he were indeed that superior skater, his PCS and score in general wouldn't have been questioned by fans/skaters/coaches/fs community.

    I told you I too can type. Yawn.
    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Maybe we can call the 2010-2014 the Butt era?
    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    3 falls end it up with 8.0 PE, that is not normal for Chan apparently, he should at least get 8.39 if his WC performance is justified (one fall should cost him only 0.25 points in PE apparently I learned from the other post).

    Chan is really the greatest skater ever Judges are not doing their job here.
    You guys are awesome! The Butt era. Hillarious!

    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Awful about Menshov.
    Menshov at J-ambulance: https://twitter.com/kudryavkaaa/stat...553856/photo/1

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by machin View Post
    Nope. Sale Pelletier will be always remember for crying everywhere in the medias in order to get a OGM they didn't deserved on the ice as the initial judgement stated. Moreover they did so with one of the easiest LP they ever skated, all on 2 feet, no transitions at all, standing face to face for ten second doing nothing and full of illegal elements against one of the hardest LP technically ever (only toped/on the same level as S/S's Pina), executed mostly on one foot with difficult transitions everywhere and mainly before big elements, way better skating skills, interpretation, choreography and artistry. Yes, there was a step up, a very minor error given he executed the rest of the combination in synch and the overall difficulty. Oh and even if you erased Le Gougne marks for the LP, the russians still won the SP, TFP under the canadian's = winners.
    The canadians were lucky the Games were in NA and medias went crazy putting an awful lot of pressure against the ISU during their biggest money racking event ; the IOC being so uneducated in skating and PC didn't hurt either.

    Remember me why do you think Chan deserved his flawed victories ? And unlike him, B/S were 98% clean. They surely didn't spent their olympics LP on their butts.
    a) I've said he doesn't deserve every victory that's been flawed, b) he deserves his flawed victories because he is the best, or one of the best skaters, which garners - under this system - points that allow him to win in spite of errors, c) he's not the only skater to have victories with errors - in fact, most of the men have at least one victory with errors, including falls, d) you're honestly comparing the falling potential of a freeskater who does quads with pair skaters who don't have nearly as many jumping passes - and easier jumps at that.

    Sale and Pelletier were potentially cheated of a gold medal, because the French judge admitted to cheating and deliberately placing the Russians ahead in a 5-4 decision. Whether a different judge would have still given B/S the win or S/P the win is something we will never know. But saying B/S won the short as some arbitrary tiebreaker is BS, because as we know under 6.0 anyone in the top 3 after the SP, if the won the FS, would win overall... and with a non-cheating judge, that could have been S/P. Your tiebreaker is as arbitrary and biased as if I said "the tiebreaker should be to add up all the technical and artistic scores of the remaining judges in the FS and whichever team has a higher total should win" ... "oh and it happens to be S/P, look at that... no, it doesn't work like that. What happened was obviously to save face, but the reality is 4 (supposedly) non-cheating judges chose S/P and 4 (supposedly) non-cheating judges chose B/S.

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