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Thread: World Team Trophy 2013 Men

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    As much as you want to bash him, he still wins or places high because he's a good skater, so that's just something you're going to have to accept. If he weren't a superior skater in the field (and obviously I've acknowledged that other skaters have superior qualities, like Dai's PE/IN) he wouldn't be getting the PCS he gets. And for those crying about his PCS, he was 7.5 points lower than his personal best and received just 8.00 for PE, and lost the PE/IN PCS marks to Abbott and Takahashi.
    I don't think I've ever said he wasn't a good skater. I've said a whole host of other things about him but never that I didn't know that he has the best basic skating skills out of the crop today.

    I mean, it's just wrong. He had 3 falls, a stumble out of another jump, a single axel. We keep talking about the Chanflation on the Free, however, the big problem is the insurmountable lead Chan usually seems to accrue with the short. He was 6 points clear (which is a fall+) with a messy short. 2 Judges actually gave him -2 on the URed Quad in the short! Yes his skating skills are bar none, right now. However, that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be marked fairly and NO they aren't light-years ahead of everyone else.

    My problem with the bold text, CanadianSkaterGuy, is that 7.5 points isn't enough, and this goes for everyone. PCS Criteria are kept within a range of each other, and that is wrong. The strength of Chan's basic skating keeps some of his other PCS critera (which should be abysmal) artificially high. The PCS marks needs to be individual, uncoupled from each other. You're trying to make a case that his 8 in PE is justifiable, given all his other scores this year. However, it's a flawed argument, because ALL of his PE scores are way over inflated. 4 of his 12 elements were bad, and the last one, he didn't even do at all.. nearly 50 percent of his elements, in his free, we're "flawed to terrible: -GOE" Yet, he deserves an 8 in PE?

    It deserves a 5-6 in P/E. It just does.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    I think Max could feel a little aggreived at not being on the podium...
    Max needs to do intensive work on his spins, as they are holding him back. If he hadn't fallen on the 3a, he would have beaten Reynolds, who was just 1.03 ahead.

  3. #273
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I wish him speedy recovery!!!!

  4. #274
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    Chan feels entitled to the top of the podium even when he makes huge mistakes because he's convinced he is the best skater in the world. But being the best skater in the world is POTENTIAL. The PERFORMANCE has to display the potential at its best. Chan's performances, particularly in the FS, have not shown his skating skills in a good light. If he continues down this road with no technical coach, he won't win the OGM and possibly may not be on the podium.

    There are other skaters with tremendous potential who are eager to perform to their potential and they are gaining on Chan. It is SO much easier to be the chaser than the chased.

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Not true - he did well at Euros... which was the reason the Russian Federation sent him to Worlds. I feel really bad for the guy. He simply wasn't ready.
    His axel in the SP was a double and he did 4 combos in the free skate. And it wasn't that he didn't do 3 official combos before he did the 4th. He really didn't know what he was doing. Usually a skater misses a combo and tries to do it on another jump which sometimes backfires he just did 4 combos. And the double axel just is a technical mistake. He wound up the highest ranking RUssian there but he showed real indications that he shouldn't go to worlds.

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  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Chan feels entitled to the top of the podium even when he makes huge mistakes because he's convinced he is the best skater in the world. But being the best skater in the world is POTENTIAL. The PERFORMANCE has to display the potential at its best. Chan's performances, particularly in the FS, have not shown his skating skills in a good light. If he continues down this road with no technical coach, he won't win the OGM and possibly may not be on the podium.

    There are other skaters with tremendous potential who are eager to perform to their potential and they are gaining on Chan. It is SO much easier to be the chaser than the chased.
    Oh, they've already gained on him. He's lost 3 times this season, (4 times, if you count Worlds). But he's also had some good freeskates, namely Cup of Russia and the Grand Prix final. If you compare the other guys' season, they've also had excellent skates resulting in wins, and really poor skates resulting in losses. The field is much more even now, particularly now that skaters with high difficulty like Fernandez, Hanyu and Reynolds have improved their overall skating, and a great artistic skater like Takahashi/Chan have shown technical inconsistency, and surprise skates from skaters like Ten.

    Overall, Chan is certainly one of the best skaters in the World. I think he felt entitled to win over Ten, which was arrogant of him, but I don't think he can argue beating the other guys when they don't step up, and that's a matter of those guys not displaying their potential at their best. It really depends on the day too -- I mean look at Chan's Worlds SP and then his WTT SP; look at Fernandez's Euros SP and then his World SP; look at Hanyu's great SPs in the season and SP at Worlds. The field is vastly inconsistent, which shades of potential being met and other days where they bomb.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Takahashi/Chan
    That's insulting.

  9. #279
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    I just checked the results and the videos, and I can say that I'm shocked by Chan's program: it looked like if he wasn't even TRYING to do those jumps, after the fall in the 3A... I think that her really felt bad after Worlds, because of all the critics about his win, so he wanted to redeem himself here and show everyone that he can skate well, but he didn't, and that's why he looked so disappointed, I think; it has to be extremely frustrating: knowing that you CAN do it, but not being able to do it...

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by zschultz1986 View Post
    You're trying to make a case that his 8 in PE is justifiable, given all his other scores this year. However, it's a flawed argument, because ALL of his PE scores are way over inflated. 4 of his 12 elements were bad, and the last one, he didn't even do at all.. nearly 50 percent of his elements, in his free, we're "flawed to terrible: -GOE" Yet, he deserves an 8 in PE?

    It deserves a 5-6 in P/E. It just does.
    You forgot the fundamental in your argument. PE wasn't counted by elements. There are other non-element moments which will be counted in PE.

  11. #281
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    I vastly prefer CoP to 6.0, to the point that I think going back to 6.0 would be a monumentally stupid move.

    But the fact that Chan's total trainwreck of a LP received only 1 point less in total PCS than Takahashi's LP signals to me that something is very, very wrong with the current system we have. It's ridiculous. I can't even pretend to understand it.

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    That's insulting.
    How is that insulting? You think Takahashi hasn't also had a technically inconsistent season? He's only had one clean skate (SP at the GPF) all season, and placed on the podium or won his flawed events.

    Cup of China: SP with 1 error, FS with 4 errors - 5 errors if you include omitting a third combo - (1 downgrade, 1 fall) [SILVER]
    NHK Trophy: SP with 1 error, FS with 2 errors - 3 errors if you include omitting a third combo [SILVER]
    GPF: SP with no errors, FS with 4 errors (1 fall) [GOLD]
    4CC: SP with 2 errors (1 fall), FS with 4 errors - 6 errors if you include him omitting a 2nd & 3rd combo (1 fall)
    Worlds: SP with 2 errors, FS with 3 errors (1 fall)
    WTT: SP with 2 errors (1 downgrade), FS with 2 errors (1 downgrade) [GOLD]

  13. #283
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    Figure skating should be about perfection! No one who is so imperfect should win!
    I hope Patrick is not over scored. It is so shameful for the sport to see a world champion who is so erroneous.

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    You forgot the fundamental in your argument. PE wasn't counted by elements. There are other non-element moments which will be counted in PE.
    No, I didn't, but I get where you're coming from. It was a dismal performance. Honestly, as much as they hammered Chan, he should have been hammered even more. That spin at the end though, was perfectly on song (LOL). I did feel sad for him at that moment, cause everything was just going wrong for him... but Hubris is a B****.

    He's not winning Olympics next year. He's just not. On a stage like that? If he performs like he did here OR like he did at Worlds?

    He reminds me a lot of Abbott. Like Abbott, Chan usually brings his A Game to Nats. Then he gets to Worlds and gets tight. The only difference is, Chan falls, but rotates things, while Abbott URs sometimes, and pops stuff. Remember when Buttle threw in that Quad at 06 Olympics even though he knew he was gonna fall, because the points he got for the Quad w/fall was more than the jump that would have been there other wise? It's just... not the way a sport should function. A Fall should not be rewarded, or should be penalized harshly. Also, it should be reflected in PCS too, more so than it is now.


    Unlike Evangeline, I totally understand this system. However, that makes me hate it EVEN more. I can totally see where the judges are holding Chan up, and maybe it's not intentional, or maybe it is, but I know one thing: It's bad for the sport.

    Also, there needs to be some distinction between the Short and Long Programs. Short used to be technical, and long used to be free.... but now, they're basically the same, with different music. Bring back ordinals in the short, so no one can win based on a Short Program.

    This system isn't any better than 6.0, because the corruption in the judging is still there, which WAS the major goal of the change.

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by
    Cup of China: SP with 1 error, FS with 4 errors - 5 errors if you include omitting a third combo - (1 downgrade, 1 fall) [SILVER
    NHK Trophy: SP with 1 error, FS with 2 errors - 3 errors if you include omitting a third combo [SILVER]
    GPF: SP with no errors, FS with 4 errors (1 fall) [GOLD]
    4CC: SP with 2 errors (1 fall), FS with 4 errors - 6 errors if you include him omitting a 2nd & 3rd combo (1 fall)
    Worlds: SP with 2 errors, FS with 3 errors (1 fall)
    WTT: SP with 2 errors (1 downgrade), FS with 2 errors (1 downgrade) [GOLD]
    Without a doubt Patrick is more than an excellent skater. All year the judges have been trying to hang onto that and have given him marks with that in mind. But he is not skating like an excellent skater. Seriously, he MUST get back to proper coaching. He retains his skill but he can no longer deliver it because he is not being prepared, coached and trained properly any longer. He can't coast on his old skills any longer. His momentum has run out.

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