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Thread: World Team Trophy 2013 Men

  1. #316
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I just looked at the official results and realized Chan was 5th in the free skate!
    By factored placements the final result would have been:

    Takahashi 2
    Aaron 4.5
    Chan 5.5
    Reynolds 6.5 (wins tie-break)
    Mura 6.5
    Abbott 8

  2. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    By factored placements the final result would have been:

    Takahashi 2
    Aaron 4.5
    Chan 5.5
    Reynolds 6.5 (wins tie-break)
    Mura 6.5
    Abbott 8
    Since Max was sixth in the SP and third in the FS, wouldn't he earn 6.0 factored placements (3 + 3)?

  3. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post
    I watched both long programs. Patrick Chan does so much "stuff" (I guess these are the transitions?) that are not really jumps or spins. He leaps, turns around, falls to his knee, does a little spin or a little single jump, that by the time he's ready to jump again after his first couple of quads, he's exhausted. But the judges don't care. Either it's fixed (i.e. the judges want him to win for some reason that they will overlook anything) or to them the "stuff" is really important, much more important than not falling. So, yes, Patrick fell numerous times, but look at how many times he fell to his knee like he was proposing to someone! Look at how many little single jumps he did with his arms in the air! Look at how many times he made a face and started to "run" across the ice!

    My question is, if this is what the judges want, why is he the only guy smart enough to figure it out? Why are these other men worrying so hard about landing their jumps when they could win with a pile of hops and skips? Seriously.
    I have also came to this conclusion that landing the jumps especially if they are fully rotated isn't that important anymore. More important is all these little things in choreography; hops, edges, skips aka transitions. And the more you add them less likely you'll land your jumps but that doesn't matter anymore.

  4. #319
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sjs5572 View Post
    Since Max was sixth in the SP and third in the FS, wouldn't he earn 6.0 factored placements (3 + 3)?
    Oh, yes. My bad. So the only difference in rankings would be Aaron switching with Reynolds.

  5. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    Chan is a better skater than everyone else.
    No, he is not. He is only judged as the one. Dai, Kozuka (at his best), Ten are much better at gliding, edging, with soaring lightness and ease.
    He is not, however, the best performer or the one with the most musicality.
    You are saying that he is overscored every time when he gets higher marks for Performance than everyone else. Can't agree more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post
    although how he's managed to avoid an injury from all these falls is a miracle
    That's what I thought on my way home thinking about Menshov's injury. I also though that it's so unfair that such a terrible accident happened with such a good person. Here Menshov's X-ray before and after the injury: http://instagram.com/p/YFS7z-B0L6/# He was in K&C on Day 3 with Team Russia, was wearing some kind of a bandage (don't know the right English term) where his arm was resting, but he "covered" all this stuff with the Russian flag, probably in order not to expose a painful view for everyone, and to cheer for his Team as well. Here he is at the banquet. Looks fine!: http://instagram.com/p/YDGBbvCBXJ/# Get better, Man!

  6. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Here Menshov's X-ray before and after the injury: http://instagram.com/p/YFS7z-B0L6/#
    I guess he published the xrays so journalists wouldn't accuse him of faking an injury.

  7. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Here Menshov's X-ray before and after the injury: http://instagram.com/p/YFS7z-B0L6/# He was in K&C on Day 3 with Team Russia, was wearing some kind of a bandage (don't know the right English term) where his arm was resting, but he "covered" all this stuff with the Russian flag, probably in order not to expose a painful view for everyone, and to cheer for his Team as well. Here he is at the banquet. Looks fine!: http://instagram.com/p/YDGBbvCBXJ/# Get better, Man!
    Thank you a lot for the follow-up info on Menshov's injury, Let's talk.
    Looking at those X-rays, it seems medical treatment to put his dislocated shoulder back to its appropriate position was a success! I am so relieved and glad to see his smile!

    "Thank you so much for coming to Tokyo, Konstantin! Your SP was a highlight for me on Day 1 at WTT. You rocked the house! Get well soon and please have a safe trip to go home! "

  8. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I guess he published the xrays so journalists wouldn't accuse him of faking an injury.
    ??? What does it have to do with anything?

    And btw Plu also published his xrays and was accused of faking.

    Look at it this way. If a journalist writes/says something mean and foolish about a skater, that is the journalist revealing him/herself as mean and foolish, not the skate.

  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    ??? What does it have to do with anything?
    Sorry. I thought it was a funny joke. I guess not.

    Here was my thought process. At first I thought, why is the hospital releasing Menshov's xrays in violation of all medical ethics. Then I saw that it was Menshov who put the xrays in public view. I wondered why he would do that; usually medical treatments are private business between the doctor and the patient. Then I remembered the Plushenko situation. So then I thought -- ha, ha -- maybe from now on all athletes will feel like they have to prove that all their injuries are real.

  10. #325
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    Right after Menshov fell, you could see the way his arm was just hanging there that he had dislocated his shoulder. That must have hurt like the dickens. BTW, manipulating the shoulder back in position requires pulling the arm really hard and that procedure is even more painful than the original injury!

  11. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I am always serious. You keep repeating "Chan is a better skater than everyone else" but he is not. Your only proof and defence is "vast majority of fs world" but you give no evidence of where this "majority" was actually voted and calculated. You are not the vast majority of fs world. To bring judges' PCS as a proof is plain stupid because that is exactly what is being critisized in Chan's score and CoP in general. So, take your own advice and get over yourself until you have the real argument. Seriously.
    Think about what you're saying. When you say the figure skating world doesn't find him to be an excellent skater and the very individuals that the figure skating world appoints to assess him clearly consider him to be an excellent skater, I don't understand how you can be so dismissive. You have no real argument as to why he isn't an excellent skater - as far as skating skills, speed, difficult and interesting choreography, and edge work.

    As somebody said he isn't the skater with the most musicality or expression but his artistry on the blade is arguably unparalleled and this is rewarded (as it should be). Look up many articles about Chan's skating ability and most of them will remark about how intricate and difficult his programs are. Just because you hate him isn't really bringing anything to the table as to why he is not an excellent skater.

    Why do you think he isn't an excellent skater (and we're not talking about jumps or errors, just general ability? And please don't quote some Russian woman in an article.

  12. #327
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    Also, here, Chan lost to Dai on P/I... So I don't get the complaints when the judges acknowledge that he's a better performer and more expressive than Chan. It's ridiculous to hate a skater because they're not as expressive as arguably the most expressive skater in the men's field. Are you upset that Ten got better PE/IN marks than Dai at Worlds? Expression is just a part of skating... But theatrics shouldn't be what separates skaters, otherwise it wouldn't be respected as a sport. Not that I don't appreciate great artistry and musicality, but they're not supposed to be artists first - they're supposed to be athletes first.

  13. #328
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    AFAIAC, a major component of great skating is the skater keeping his/her butt off the ice while demonstrating mastery of jumps and spins with difficult and intricate choreography. At the Worlds FS and the WTT SP and FS, we didn't see that from Chan, therefore it was not great skating.

    I also noticed that Chan looked a little heavier than he had at Worlds. It was especially noticeable in the exhibition. His pants barely fit. I guess he didn't do much in the way of practice between Worlds and WTT.

  14. #329
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    Patrick is the best skater in skating skills as in edge quality, flow, effortless power, steps, turns etc his skating is seamless which makes its beautiful in technique and presentation. Though with alot of errors i can see people's point in wondering why he can still win. Dai is the best skater in artisty, the way he moves is heartfelt and his movements so natural and detailed. He is like a dancer. I think his arm movements are above other skaters.I do think he is not rewarded enough for performance execution and Interpretation in general.I think musicality should play a bigger role in judging. I love both for different reasons but Patrick sure struggled in his LP at WTT even more than Worlds. I hope to see both Patrick and Dai on the podium at Olympics. I want them both to make good decisions for next season.

  15. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Right after Menshov fell, you could see the way his arm was just hanging there that he had dislocated his shoulder. That must have hurt like the dickens. BTW, manipulating the shoulder back in position requires pulling the arm really hard and that procedure is even more painful than the original injury!
    Konstantin had anaesthetic for the relocation.

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