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Thread: World Team Trophy 2013 Men

  1. #121
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    I can't believe! If the system isn't going to change, I don't watch figure skating competitions after Sochi. Continuously annoyed, and it is not fun.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    But here's the thing. This is the You Tube age. The ISU cannot continue forever to smirk and wink and tell fans to "love the protocols." In addition to loving the protocols, people also love their own eyes. The protocols say Chan skated great. The video shows him on his butt. Protocols, great. Video, butt. Which are you going to go with?
    Protocols with no hesitation.

    That was where the current rules are laid out. According to the rules, there was nothing wrong with Chan's scores. If the rules are changed next season, let's say, ISU raises fall deduction. Then according to the new rules with higher fall deduction, Chan's skating with multi-falls will be punished harder than it was this season, the outcome of the competition like 2013 World will be different under the new rules. I will not be upset at all about the different outcome because Chan loses. That's the rule.

    In fact, I think if the fall deduction really is raised in order to punish harder on falls, Chan will adapt quickly by not falling at all. Believe me. Then his detractors will raise different kind of rage on why Chan is still winning.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post

    In fact, I think if the fall deduction really is raised in order to punish harder on falls, Chan will adapt quickly by not falling at all. Believe me. Then his detractors will raise different kind of rage on why Chan is still winning.
    I think he would drop the 3A and maybe the quad, too. He could do 2A and get +3 goe's and still win.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    If anything, you should feel ashamed by saying this. It showed that the people like you just enjoyed bashing a certain skater without even hide a little bit your bias. Have you watched?!
    The Lutz-Toe was fine. The problem with Chan now, is that his scores have become SUCH a joke, that people are SO turned off by them, that once he makes a mistake, its the ballgame. I GET that he's got amazing skating skills. However, they aren't THAT much better than the field.

    It's getting to the point where the marks are so out of touch with whats actually happening, that's its becoming a Clown Show. Judges, by all means, keeps hammering the nails in the coffin of this sport, you're doing an amazing job.

    In all honesty, Menshov's overall skating is not to the level of Chan. I can CLEARLY see that. However, there's something clearly wrong when a program that has two major flaws is not only put in the lead, but by a pretty comfortable margin. Again, CoP is ruining this sport, in that you CAN win on the strength of a short, if everyone else bombs. PCS is not reflecting whats going out on the ice: i.e. Chan clearly was terrible on 2 of his 7 required elements in the short.... so how does that get 8.54 in P/E? In what world is that acceptable. It's a broken record at this point.

    Chan is NOT that much better than the field and the reason people enjoy bashing Chan, is because he's bought into what the judges are giving him. At least, outwardly, with the remarks from this past Worlds.

    There's no defending Chan, his marks, or the judges. If he wins Olympics with skates like this over a much cleaner competitor, I (and probably, many others) will finally be done with this sham of a sport.

    I bet the people who tried to start that Figure Skating Union after SLC are trying so hard to restrain themselves from saying "I told you so."

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Protocols with no hesitation.
    This is nonsense. Those scores in the protocol are the proof that the judges overscore patrick time after time. Almost 9 for every PC for an uninspired SP with a fall and another big mistake? Seriously? This is pathetic. I'm a Mao fan myself, but a I don't support her unfair first place finish at the NHK trophy 2012, for example. Patrick's fans support his results time after time, even when they are absurd. Please, stop, just stop!

    I'd like to point out what happens to Mao's pcs when she makes mistakes. In 4cc, she got 33.86 (high eights) for a flawless and incredible performance in the SP. Here, she got 31.49 (high sevens), two points lower in pcs, almost a full mark down for every component score (and both competitions were in Japan). Patrick was a hot mess here, but got similar pcs (0.2 range for every component) at worlds (in Canada, when he was ""perfect"").

  6. #126
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    Article on Patrick Chan's performance in the SP

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Protocols with no hesitation.

    That was where the current rules are laid out. According to the rules, there was nothing wrong with Chan's scores. If the rules are changed next season, let's say, ISU raises fall deduction. Then according to the new rules with higher fall deduction, Chan's skating with multi-falls will be punished harder than it was this season, the outcome of the competition like 2013 World will be different under the new rules. I will not be upset at all about the different outcome because Chan loses. That's the rule.

    In fact, I think if the fall deduction really is raised in order to punish harder on falls, Chan will adapt quickly by not falling at all. Believe me. Then his detractors will raise different kind of rage on why Chan is still winning.
    Full disclosure: I hate Chan's supposed "artistry" because its not artistry at all. It's never feels authentic, it always feels like this is something that was calculated and was just reproduced for us to see, ala a computer printout of a piece of art. Sure, my feelings about him may color what I see on the ice. However, I've never said anywhere that I though he was a bad skater. He's got amazing edges. The flow out on his jumps, when they're landed, is great, and I love his landing position. However, this isn't figures. It's also a jumping competition, and a personality contest.

    There are CLEAR examples of how Chan's "atristry" is sub par in this Quad: Jeremy Abbott, and Daisuke. JAbs and Daisuke make their programs more than a connection of elements. Their whole is way more than the sum of its parts. With Chan, it's like watching a robot execute very intricate choreography. There IS a difference, and yet, it never shows up anywhere in the marks.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    True. If Patrick had not fallen on the quad and stepped out of the triple Axel they would have given him 96 instead of 86.

    But here's the thing. This is the You Tube age. The ISU cannot continue forever to smirk and wink and tell fans to "love the protocols." In addition to loving the protocols, people also love their own eyes. The protocols say Chan skated great. The video shows him on his butt. Protocols, great. Video, butt. Which are you going to go with?
    86 points is what he should have gotten for that, considering it's 12 points lower than his World's SP. His PCS was rather high, but so was Dai's, who had a downgrade on his quad and a sloppy 3-3, and Abbott who had no quad and a fall on his 3F.

    Menshov definitely deserves to be 1st, but he will never get the PCS of a Chan/Takahashi/Abbott. To be fair to Kovtun, he made a silly error on the lutz and was solid otherwise.

    Very surprised with Reynolds though... it's been a while since I've seen him fall on a quad. But hopefully like 4CC he can bounce back.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by zschultz1986 View Post
    PCS is not reflecting whats going out on the ice: i.e. Chan clearly was terrible on 2 of his 7 required elements in the short.... so how does that get 8.54 in P/E? In what world is that acceptable. It's a broken record at this point.
    My guess is to break PE down as a CT scan images, purely technical way of looking at PE, CH, and IN. Whether or not people agree with the CT scan method is another question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    Please, stop, just stop!
    Why? To let you continue your biased raging alone without the opponants? I wouldn't do that to spoil the fun.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by zschultz1986 View Post
    Full disclosure: I hate Chan's supposed "artistry" because its not artistry at all. It's never feels authentic, it always feels like this is something that was calculated and was just reproduced for us to see, ala a computer printout of a piece of art. Sure, my feelings about him may color what I see on the ice. However, I've never said anywhere that I though he was a bad skater. He's got amazing edges. The flow out on his jumps, when they're landed, is great, and I love his landing position. However, this isn't figures. It's also a jumping competition, and a personality contest.

    There are CLEAR examples of how Chan's "atristry" is sub par in this Quad: Jeremy Abbott, and Daisuke. JAbs and Daisuke make their programs more than a connection of elements. Their whole is way more than the sum of its parts. With Chan, it's like watching a robot execute very intricate choreography. There IS a difference, and yet, it never shows up anywhere in the marks.
    Full disclosure from me: I hate Takahashi kind of "artistry". His hands and wrists bother me to no end. But I love Abbott's most programs very much. And I'm as confident to my abilities on taste as you confident to yours.

    You see, my opinion is equally valid as yours.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Why? To let you continue your biased raging alone without the opponants? I wouldn't do that to spoil the fun.
    Yeah, keep posting your nonsense about Chan. The more you post, the more people will disagree with you, disagree with Chan's scores and with this whole mess (men's figure skating judging).

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    In fact, I think if the fall deduction really is raised in order to punish harder on falls, Chan will adapt quickly by not falling at all. Believe me. Then his detractors will raise different kind of rage on why Chan is still winning.
    I am absolutely sure Chan currently falls on purpose, just because he wants to show everyone that even with 3-4 falls per competition he is still the best. That's how good he is and he wants to scare his competitors. If the rules change, he will stop falling but not at all, he will fall just enough to ensure he still wins

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Full disclosure from me: I hate Takahashi kind of "artistry". His hands and wrists bother me to no end. But I love Abbott's most programs very much. And I'm as confident to my abilities on taste as you confident to yours.

    You see, my opinion is equally valid as yours.
    Not saying your opinion isn't valid. It's just wrong. (I'm kidding... kind of.) Chan isn't an artist, he's a technician, and such a good technician (with respect to doing choreography and edging and such) that it seems like he has artistry. It's "Fauxart" as I like to say. Go look at his exhibition at Worlds. It was super weak. He exudes about as much personality and charisma at the ice he skates on.

    BTW, the art is what Lori does. Chan just replicates it, and with no feeling.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    The point is every skater gets punished for mistakes: Mao, Dai, even Plu who is shining like an iconostasis with all his regalia, goes off the podium when he makes mistakes/falls. EVERYONE. Except Chan. Those casual fans probably can't name all fs elements correctly, and hardly bother to look at stupid protocols. And they shouldn't. Protocols in all sport are for knowing the details, while the result itself should be comprehensive and acceptable by public without looking at papers. That is not happening in fs.
    I totally agree with above. Skating should be more than just painting by numbers.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 04-11-2013 at 01:45 PM. Reason: fix quote

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Protocols with no hesitation.
    It's because you are sitting in front of your computer and reading the protocols for free. Nobody pays for "reading the protocols" when they shop for tickets.
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    His PCS was rather high, but so was Dai's, who had a downgrade on his quad and a sloppy 3-3, and Abbott who had no quad and a fall on his 3F.
    Lame attempt to pretend that you don't get what people have been saying about Chan's PCS- they shouldn't be that high in the first place. He is an electronic toy whose battery needed to be recharged. The difference in PCS between Chan and Dai/Abbot must be big and not in the favour of Chan, even if he skated clean.

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