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Thread: Thoughts on WTT

  1. #46
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    [QUOTE=rvi5;736130]If it is calm debate, then yes. However, constant negative bickering, bashing, and in some cases hateful posts which are little more than snide remarks will not help. A casual fan who is becoming avid, may turn back if they find these boards and read an abundance of those type of threads. Especially if the skaters being bashed are among their favorites. Casual fans come to these boards to learn from more experienced fans, not endure more negativity in their lives.


    IA. Suggest they go to the ISU Forum where people are extremely knowledgable, respectful and engage in true debate; there is zero tolerance by the site administrator for trolling, hating conspiracy theories & the like.

  2. #47
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    I'm late to this discussion but I'd like to add a little something on Patrick Chan. While I was watching the competition and victory ceremony I was thinking that Patrick was disappointed in the performances he turned out at this event, and not disappointed in having to go to the event. When he spoke about the 2013 WTT in this video, he didn't show a negative attitude at all.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiLzxxWONec#t=09m38s

    I thought he talked longer about the WTT, but now that I'm rewatching the video it's actually pretty short.

  3. #48
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    Here it is.

    WORLD TEAM TROPHY in Figure Skating 2013 A N N O U N C E M E N T

    3.2 Consequences of non-participation
    It is of the highest importance that Rule 136 paragraph 6 of the ISU General Regulations be respected and implemented by all ISU Members and Skaters.
    To be in compliance with Rule 136, paragraph 6, the following directive is issued by the ISU Council. Any Skater/Couple from a Qualified ISU Member, who placed within the first ten (10) places at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2013 and is ranked in the ISU World Standings among the best 2 Lady Single Skaters, best 2 Men Single Skaters, the best Pair Skating couple and the best Ice Dance couple of his/her/their respective Qualified ISU Member, if this Skater/Couple elects in advance of the ISU World Team Trophy not to participate in the ISU World Team Trophy (for whatever reason), he/she/they will not be permitted to participate in any other competitions, shows, and exhibitions from Monday noon (March 18, 2013) after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2013, during the ISU World Team Trophy, and until April 15, 2013.
    In addition, depending on the circumstances, the concerned Skater/Couple and Members may be subject to sanctions in accordance with Rule 136, paragraph 6 of the General Regulations.

    And...this is Rule 136 paragraph 6 of the ISU General Regulations

    Members with Skaters who place within the first ten places at any ISU Championships and who continue in the following season to participate in Skating competitions and/or exhibitions as eligible Skaters, shall have the obligation, when entering or authorizing the participation of such Skaters in Skating competitions and/or exhibitions, to give first priority to participation of such Skaters in those ISU Events which are the subject of ISU television and commercial contracts as notified to Members. Members who fail to comply with the above obligation, and Skaters who refuse to participate in such ISU Events, without medical or other justified reasons, shall be subject to sanctions under the relevant Rules.


    obligation, for whatever reason, sanctions....

    OH, One Word pops into my head, right now.

    B.L.A.C.K.M.A.I.L.

    ISU is Mafia or something?

    If they eliminate this most ridiculous rule ever in sports history,

    I'm willing to blame Chan and some critics!!! Very Severely!!

    I know JSF is Very Important Sponcer, But this is not good.

  4. #49
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    That's a good thing that Akiko had season best program and received the high score.
    but except her, almost other Skaters seems bad condition..

    Anyway, skaters in k&c were so cute ...Well ...

  5. #50
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    My primary concern now is with what happened to Menshov. After seeing that how can they even think about having the team event at the Olys before the regular events?!

    What if Menshov had been Russia's only man at the Olympics and had that injury? Would Russia have been allowed to rush in a replacement for the men's event or would it - and with the ISU I would not be surprised if it was - would it be a case of "too bad, so sad"?

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Fanatic View Post
    We now know the team contest at the Olympics is being held before the regular skating events. In my opinion this schedule puts at risk every skater who might have the opportunity to win an individual medal. It takes so much effort both physical and emotional to peak at just the right moment, that having to compete earlier for the team could have a negative effect on their performance in the traditional events. There is the added concern that while practicing and performing for the team, they could sustain an injury that removes them from the rest of the competition.

    The ISU canceled qualifying skates on the grounds they gave the audience an overdose of skating!! Now they have introduced an extra event which just like qualifying, requires skaters to repeat the same programmes within a couple of days. Are they trying to bore us to death? Unlike gymnastics few skating nations have competitors for every discipline which certainly limits and skews the contest. This makes it seem like a "fake" as well as a "fluff" competition. It would be a shame if skaters chances of a legitimate medal were compromised by being pressured to take part in what appears to be an outright farce.

    This is my personal opinion but I have noticed a lot of fans on the internet really don't give a hoot about a team event. I also hate the rah rah cutesy poo efforts in the background. Sorry.
    Agree with you on all points. I am appalled at how the ISU is cramming the new Olympic Team event that few want, down the Federations' throats. And the scheduling before the REAL competition is atrocious. I am still wondering what happens if a Federation refuses to participate in the Team Event. Will the ISU (Speedy) throw out all of their singles, pair, and dance skaters from the regular competitions?

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsisjiejie View Post
    Agree with you on all points. I am appalled at how the ISU is cramming the new Olympic Team event that few want, down the Federations' throats. And the scheduling before the REAL competition is atrocious. I am still wondering what happens if a Federation refuses to participate in the Team Event. Will the ISU (Speedy) throw out all of their singles, pair, and dance skaters from the regular competitions?
    Which is why I believe having the Olympic team event as a consolation prize for skaters that don't make the team for individual/pair events is the best solution if it must be held before all the main events.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by starryxskies View Post
    Which is why I believe having the Olympic team event as a consolation prize for skaters that don't make the team for individual/pair events is the best solution if it must be held before all the main events.
    I thought about this, too. But, unless you're talking about the VERY VERY best, maybe the skaters would like an additional chance at an Olympic medal.

    For example... Under your scenario, the third place pair at US Nats could win an Olympic medal in the team event, perhaps even a gold one, while the US Champion finishes 8th or 9th in the pairs competition.

    We may not think much of the team competition, but that doesn't mean the skaters don't/won't. The BIG medal in gymnastics is now the Team Event (All-Around champ is still way up there), and gymnastics officials make decisions on who will help the team win gold. Individual glory is a completely secondary consideration.

    Skating at the Olympics is a very big deal, no matter what the event, and an OGM is nothing to take lightly. I haven't heard of any skaters complaining about an extra chance of gold...

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    We may not think much of the team competition, but that doesn't mean the skaters don't/won't. The BIG medal in gymnastics is now the Team Event (All-Around champ is still way up there), and gymnastics officials make decisions on who will help the team win gold. Individual glory is a completely secondary consideration.

    Skating at the Olympics is a very big deal, no matter what the event, and an OGM is nothing to take lightly. I haven't heard of any skaters complaining about an extra chance of gold...
    I haven't heard much in the way of support for the idea, either. Perhaps it's still such a new concept and skaters' focus needed to be on finishing out this season before worrrying about the next one. But even once the implication of the structure and timing of the event sink in to the skaters, I'm not sure they'll feel comfortable expressing true opinions while still actively competing. I can't imagine most coaches are in favor of this setup, as there seems to be no upside for them but a lot of downside if their skater(s) get injured or present poorly in the team competition. Either of those circumstances could negatively affect the skater's participation or results in the singles/pair/dance regular competition.

    The ISU is not going to stand for this "Team Event" being composed of national also-rans. Mainly because of ISU's commercial TV aspirations, they need/want the top draw skaters there to get the level of sponsors up. Since the ISU has no direct relationship with skaters, it has to exert all pressure and dispense all punishments via the member Federations. So I go back to my previous question to which I can't find a definitive answer: What happens if a Federation decides not to field a Team for the Team Event? And I thought of a corollary: What happens if a particular skater flatly refuses to compete in the Team Event? Does the Federation take away their Olympic berth for the normal events as punishment, and make them stay home? Before announcing the Olympic Team, does a Federation extract a written promise from a skater that their Olympic single, dance, or pairs assignment must include the Team Competition as well? At least in the USA, I can see where this could present some interesting lawsuit possibilities....

  10. #55
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    I agree with Tonto. This team thing has the potential to become the skating event of the Games for the television viewers. No one has ever heard of Ashley Wagner or Gracie Gold, but...USA! USA! USA!

    In addition to the ISU I think the IOC has expectations that athletes will participate. Plus, who wouldn't want to skate their fool head off at the Olympics Games if given the chance?

    Sometimes there are a few athletes in both the Winter and Summer Games who decline to be part of the relays because they want to save themselves for their individual events. They end up looking unpatriotic and selfish.

    As for the possibility of injury in the team competition -- Menshov notwithstanding, you are more likely get injured in practice or to catch a cold on the day before your event. This is the Olympics! No time to get timid and scared of what might happen.
    Last edited by Mathman; 04-15-2013 at 02:37 AM.

  11. #56
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    PS. And one more thing...

    I hope no sissy-wuss skater comes crying about, oh poor me, I have to skate on Monday and Wednesday and then do it again next week.

    Michael Phelps did the 400 butterfly on Monday, the 800 relay on Tuesday, the 100 meter backstroke on Wednesday, and he didn't stop until he had a basketful of medals. Misty May and Kerry Walsh beat the Russians on Tuesday, the Spaniards on Wednesday, the Brazilians on Thursday, the Chinese on Friday, and the Turks on Saturday. Meryl Davis and Charlie White can do the same!
    Last edited by Mathman; 04-15-2013 at 02:56 AM.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    But, unless you're talking about the VERY VERY best, maybe the skaters would like an additional chance at an Olympic medal.

    For example... Under your scenario, the third place pair at US Nats could win an Olympic medal in the team event, perhaps even a gold one, while the US Champion finishes 8th or 9th in the pairs competition.

    We may not think much of the team competition, but that doesn't mean the skaters don't/won't. The BIG medal in gymnastics is now the Team Event (All-Around champ is still way up there), and gymnastics officials make decisions on who will help the team win gold. Individual glory is a completely secondary consideration.

    Skating at the Olympics is a very big deal, no matter what the event, and an OGM is nothing to take lightly. I haven't heard of any skaters complaining about an extra chance of gold...
    I think that many skaters -- including some of the "VERY, VERY best" -- are more than happy to have a chance at a team Olympic medal.
    Any skater dreams of winning even one Olympic medal.
    For those who already have achieved that goal, winning more than one is all the more difficult ... and presumably would be all the more satisfying.
    Seems to me that the team event is more of an opportunity than an onus.

    If I am not mistaken, many of the top Canadians and top Americans already have expressed enthusiasm for the Olympic team event. (Don't know about other nationalities.)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigsisjiejie View Post
    I haven't heard much in the way of support for the idea, either. Perhaps it's still such a new concept and skaters' focus needed to be on finishing out this season before worrrying about the next one. But even once the implication of the structure and timing of the event sink in to the skaters, I'm not sure they'll feel comfortable expressing true opinions while still actively competing. I can't imagine most coaches are in favor of this setup, as there seems to be no upside for them but a lot of downside if their skater(s) get injured or present poorly in the team competition. Either of those circumstances could negatively affect the skater's participation or results in the singles/pair/dance regular competition.

    ... What happens if a Federation decides not to field a Team for the Team Event? And I thought of a corollary: What happens if a particular skater flatly refuses to compete in the Team Event? Does the Federation take away their Olympic berth for the normal events as punishment, and make them stay home? Before announcing the Olympic Team, does a Federation extract a written promise from a skater that their Olympic single, dance, or pairs assignment must include the Team Competition as well? At least in the USA, I can see where this could present some interesting lawsuit possibilities....
    - jiejie, wouldn't the upside for coaches be much the same as for skaters? Because of the team event, a larger number of skaters will win a larger number of medals ... and bring glory not only to their countries and to themselves, but also to their coaches.

    - The following language from the official ISU document for the Sochi Olympics refers to countries "who have chosen to compete in the Figure Skating Team Event" ("who have chosen to," assuming that they have qualified). The implication, at least, is that the countries do have the option of declining to compete -- although the option is not spelled out explicitly, so I can't say that I am 100% sure.

    NOCs/ISU Members with Teams who have qualified Skaters/Couples in an individual OWG competition/discipline (the “qualified Skaters/Couples”) in Single Lady, Single Man, Pair Skating, Ice Dance) and who have chosen to compete in the Figure Skating Team Event, must list the respective qualified Skaters/Couples of such discipline also as entries for the Figure Skating Team Event and may not enter different Skaters/Couples for such discipline.

    - Good question as to how each federation will handle the possibility of a resistant skater.
    But what US Figure Skating has announced so far is that each member of Team USA will be permitted to state a preference for or against skating in the team event. USFS has not promised to abide by those preferences, but will take them into consideration in its decisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I agree with Tonto. This team thing has the potential to become the skating event of the Games for the television viewers. ...

    In addition to the ISU I think the IOC has expectations that athletes will participate. Plus, who wouldn't want to skate their fool head off at the Olympics Games if given the chance?
    Plus ... I believe that the scheduling of team skating to begin the day before the opening ceremony will increase interest among fans of the Olympics in general who do not otherwise pay attention to figure skating. If such TV/online viewers just want to start getting their fix of Olympic competition -- no matter what the specific sport -- perhaps they will get "hooked" on team figure skating on that first day/night of coverage even before the opening ceremony the following night.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    PS. And one more thing...

    I hope no sissy-wuss skater comes crying about, oh poor me, I have to skate on Monday and Wednesday and then do it again next week.

    Michael Phelps did the 400 butterfly on Monday, the 800 relay on Tuesday, the 100 meter backstroke on Wednesday, and he didn't stop until he had a basketful of medals. Misty May and Kerry Walsh beat the Russians on Tuesday, the Spaniards on Wednesday, the Brazilians on Thursday, the Chinese on Friday, and the Turks on Saturday. Meryl Davis and Charlie White can do the same!
    Good point, MM. [Not that anyone would ever dream of accusing skaters of being sissy-wusses ... ]

    I would add that relatively few skaters will be skating two programs for the team event (although among the small group who do inevitably will be medal contenders in their individual disciplines).
    - A maximum of 60 skaters will compete at least once (SP/SD) in the team event. (1 pair + 1 man + 1 dance couple + 1 lady = 6 skaters per country x 10 countries.)
    - A maximum of 30 of those same skaters also will compete in the FS/FD round. (6 skaters per country x 5 countries.)
    BUT ... the number likely will be substantially fewer than 30, because each country is allowed to make substitutions in two disciplines.

    For example, Skate Canada hypothetically could have Moore-Towers/Moscovitch + Reynolds skate their SPs and then switch to Duhamel/Radford + Chan for the free skates. [And then the same dance couple (prob. Virtue/Moir?) would have to perform both SD and FD, and same lady (Osmond?) would have to perform both SP and FS. Obviously I am making the assumption that the composition of Canada's Olympic team will replicate its world team this year.]

    I wonder whether most countries really will divvy up the programs for pairs and men, because the individual competitions for those disciplines will take place sooner than for dance and ladies. Theoretically -- only for the sake of argument -- if all five countries who qualify for the FS/FD round use that logic, then only 15 skaters (1 dance couple + 1 lady per country) will have to skate both programs for the team event.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    I thought about this, too. But, unless you're talking about the VERY VERY best, maybe the skaters would like an additional chance at an Olympic medal.

    For example... Under your scenario, the third place pair at US Nats could win an Olympic medal in the team event, perhaps even a gold one, while the US Champion finishes 8th or 9th in the pairs competition.

    We may not think much of the team competition, but that doesn't mean the skaters don't/won't. The BIG medal in gymnastics is now the Team Event (All-Around champ is still way up there), and gymnastics officials make decisions on who will help the team win gold. Individual glory is a completely secondary consideration.

    Skating at the Olympics is a very big deal, no matter what the event, and an OGM is nothing to take lightly. I haven't heard of any skaters complaining about an extra chance of gold...
    I think the all-around event is still the most prestigious event in Ladies gymnastics. Yes the team event got a lot of press but that's because the US had only won it once before. Not only that the team competition at the Olympics has been around since 1928 so it has a lot of history on it's side that the figure skating team competition doesn't have.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Plus ... I believe that the scheduling of team skating to begin the day before the opening ceremony will increase interest among fans of the Olympics in general who do not otherwise pay attention to figure skating. If such TV/online viewers just want to start getting their fix of Olympic competition -- no matter what the specific sport -- perhaps they will get "hooked" on team figure skating on that first day/night of coverage even before the opening ceremony the following night.
    Spot on! -The olympics is here... what to watch...? only figure skating... oh well at least it's some sort of a sport I bet the ratings will be sky high

    Quote Originally Posted by rvi5 View Post
    If it is calm debate, then yes. However, constant negative bickering, bashing, and in some cases hateful posts which are little more than snide remarks will not help. A casual fan who is becoming avid, may turn back if they find these boards and read an abundance of those type of threads. Especially if the skaters being bashed are among their favorites. Casual fans come to these boards to learn from more experienced fans, not endure more negativity in their lives.
    Spot on 2 That was me in 2006. I read the GS forum and saw a lot of negative/hating/evil posts about Sasha Cohen, who was one of my favorites. I didn't read anything on any figure skating forum until 2 1/2 years later. I'm tougher now and can skim threads in order to find good information and interesting/real debate posts. Still find the phenomenon sad though.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trewyn View Post
    Haha, yeah, I noticed that too. Maybe he reads figure skating forums?

    It's nice to see the skaters have fun in the K&C. Though I imagine the Olympic event will be a lot more competitive and intense. Olympic medals on the line!!!
    The gymnastics team event has great prestige and is completely legitimate because many countries have competitors in all the disciplines. The figure skating team event is not legitimate because few skating nations have competitors in all the disciplines. Therefore it is a "fake" competition and to compel skaters to take part is indefensible particularly when it is being held before the regular events.

    Skaters and their families put in years of effort (and money) into striving for an Olympic medal. If I were the parent of a skater whose chances of a genuine medal became endangered by this false contest I would be furious. I might even want to take the I.S.U. and my child's federation to court. A team trophy might seem like a great idea but at present it is a sham, and certainly in the skating community the medals will lack credibility.

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