Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 137

Thread: Wagner's Olympic Strategy: Play It Safe?

  1. #31
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,549
    In her post-skate NBC interview at the World championship, Wagner was asked what she needed to do to take the "next step" after her consecutive just-OTP finishes and her response was a consistent 3-3 next season so she's "mentally prepared" by the time Nats and Olys roll around. Again, is this something she can not only get comfortable with, but nail each time without any calls? There's definitely no harm in trying at the GPs at least, though.

    She knows what needs to be done - question is, what is the best plan of attack?

    I say go for the 3-3 in the SP during all pre-season and GP comps and see what happens. If she keeps getting called on it, perhaps it's not worth the risk. If she can get it clean & consistent, it's that many more points in her back pocket. (I think this past season is when she should have really gone for it, but I digress)

    For the FS, how about ditching the 2A/3T and doing another 3-3 instead? How would that work out points-wise? Or maybe the SP is where to go for the 3-3 since she's already scoring high 120s in the FS without any hard jumps anyway.


    This is the sort of stuff Team Wagner will need to sort out - and I want to see what you guys think her best option(s) is(are) at this point.

  2. #32
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,016
    She needs 3-3 for the SP, doesn't need it for the LP.

    What she needs in the LP is beautiful choreography, transitions, and 5 jumping passes in the second half of the program, with all of the combo slots filled with the hardest doubles possible; she should be doing 3Flip+2Loop+2Loop, 3Loop+2Axel (seq) and 3Toe+2Axel (seq) as her combination jumps in the LP.

  3. #33
    Medalist
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    98
    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    For the FS, how about ditching the 2A/3T and doing another 3-3 instead? How would that work out points-wise? Or maybe the SP is where to go for the 3-3 since she's already scoring high 120s in the FS without any hard jumps anyway.


    This is the sort of stuff Team Wagner will need to sort out - and I want to see what you guys think her best option(s) is(are) at this point.
    I've been wondering if she should try 3Loop-3Toe instead. Her loop is one of her best jumps, why waste the repeat on a 3Loop-2Axel sequence that is losing 20% value? She'd get more points out of 3Lo-3T and 2A-2A sequence than 2A-3T and 3Lo-2A sequence.

    She also might be better served to do double loops on her combinations. One thing that helps Mao and Kanako pointswise is doing double loops on the backend of their combos. Even though they aren't 3-3s, they are worth 0.50 each more than double toe loops. Ashley used to try 3Lutz-3Loop back in 2007-8, so backend double loops shouldn't be difficult for her. If she wants to skate conservative and not do 3-3's, every fraction of a point counts. Or I wonder if she could try 2Axel-3Loop. An underrotated triple loop is still worth 3.57 points. She's said her double-footing is very psychological and it seems to be a big problem with her 2A-3T and 3F-3T attempts, maybe she needs to try something else just to mix it up a little.

  4. #34
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    2,883
    I think that she should do a 3-3 in the SP and for the FS:
    3F+2T+2Lo
    3Lz
    spins/steps/choreography to get into the second half
    3Lo+2A
    3S
    3T+2A
    3Lo
    3F
    After all, the idea of a 3T+2A+SEQ is not bad: the BV of this seq in the second half is 6.51, the BV of an UR 2A+3T in the first half is 6.20 plus the negative GOE for the two-footing, the highest she can reach with this combo is around 5.50; if she receives a positive GOE for the 3T+2A it could be more than 7 points. And we also have to remember that she often doesn't attempt the 3T if the landing of the 2A is not perfect, so a 3T+2A (I'm pretty sure that she's able to do it) could work well for her... Doing this, she would use the Murakami strategy: no 3-3 and no 2-3 in the FS, but still 7 triples using the sequences option...

  5. #35
    Custom Title Cherryy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    258
    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    I think that she should do a 3-3 in the SP and for the FS:
    3F+2T+2Lo
    3Lz
    spins/steps/choreography to get into the second half
    3Lo+2A
    3S
    3T+2A
    3Lo
    3F
    After all, the idea of a 3T+2A+SEQ is not bad: the BV of this seq in the second half is 6.51, the BV of an UR 2A+3T in the first half is 6.20 plus the negative GOE for the two-footing, the highest she can reach with this combo is around 5.50; if she receives a positive GOE for the 3T+2A it could be more than 7 points. And we also have to remember that she often doesn't attempt the 3T if the landing of the 2A is not perfect, so a 3T+2A (I'm pretty sure that she's able to do it) could work well for her... Doing this, she would use the Murakami strategy: no 3-3 and no 2-3 in the FS, but still 7 triples using the sequences option...
    The only thing I would change is the place of 3Lz. It should be in the 2nd half, just like it is now, maybe change it with 3S or 3L.
    She'll need the 3-3 in the SP.

  6. #36
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Greater Boston, MA
    Posts
    782
    I see your original point, R.D., that Ashley often skates very well when she keeps the content conservative. But, I concur with everyone else that next year is not the time to play it safe. What is it they say--go big or go home? :-) Yes, Ashley could play it safe next year and come in 4th or 5th again. But she's already done that the last 2 years in a row. To have a chance for the podium, I think she needs the harder content. Although her PCS is steadily improving and the judges now clearly see her as one of the best, I don't think that alone will be enough to get her on the podium, because Kim, Kostner, and Asada all have great PCS as well. So I think she needs a little more on the technical side. Maybe some of the other posters are right that she should try some combinations other than 3F-3T and 2A-3T.

  7. #37
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    5,060
    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    No. I said she shouldn't be there if the goal is to collect Ralph Lauren sweater.
    This is the Olympics, have some respect. Bring ur best or stay home.
    What I find extremely disrespectful is your suggestion (even as lame sarcasm) that any skater has invested years of training and sacrifice because of a materialistic desire for an Olympic uniform.

  8. #38
    Miserere Nobis
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas Darling
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Their parents/fed/potential reward got them to do these for years and Ralph Lauren is one of the first rewards that comes ur way.

    Why go to the Olympics to do 2a-2t and have no chance at all if not for Ralph Lauren sweater? I find her extremely disrespectful to the sporting event for being so selfish.
    Like the Chinese badminton players who play to not win and get thrown out, she should be thrown out for all the talk about winning and upgrading without actually making the effort.
    Where's the crystal ball of skating that's telling you she won't make the effort over this summer and start next season with an upgraded technical arsenal?

  9. #39
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,378
    she doesn't need udgraded jumps Wagner will still be US No.2 lady behind Gracie Gold by Olympics Season.

  10. #40
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,576
    Gracie could be the #1 US lady nationally and internationally IF she gets better choreography and learns to sell her programs the way Ashley does. Gracie has a huge technical arsenal, but she needs the logistics, too.

  11. #41
    Miserere Nobis
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas Darling
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Gracie could be the #1 US lady nationally and internationally IF she gets better choreography and learns to sell her programs the way Ashley does. Gracie has a huge technical arsenal, but she needs the logistics, too.
    Gracie's smart. She said after WTT that she needs more intricate choreography. Hopefully, it was a hint that she'll be traveling to the likes of David Wilson, Jeff Buttle, Marina Zoueva, or Tatiana Tarasova soon.

  12. #42
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,378
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Gracie could be the #1 US lady nationally and internationally IF she gets better choreography and learns to sell her programs the way Ashley does. Gracie has a huge technical arsenal, but she needs the logistics, too.
    If she skates consistently, It wont matter that much
    her PCS Gap with Wagner will get even

    I fully expect Gracie as the No.1 American lady by Sochi
    Wagner maybe 2nd or 3rd

  13. #43
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    222
    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    She needs 3-3 for the SP, doesn't need it for the LP.

    What she needs in the LP is beautiful choreography, transitions, and 5 jumping passes in the second half of the program, with all of the combo slots filled with the hardest doubles possible; she should be doing 3Flip+2Loop+2Loop, 3Loop+2Axel (seq) and 3Toe+2Axel (seq) as her combination jumps in the LP.
    Why is a axel toe sequence better than the axel toe combo? I dont think she does solo toes much.

  14. #44
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,723
    2 Ashley Wagner, SC of Wilmington Inc 122.15 61.94 60.21 0.00

    1 3F+2T+2T
    2 3Lo
    3 CCoSp4
    4 SpSq4
    5 2A
    6 3S *
    7 3Lo+2A+SEQ*
    8 3F+2A+SEQ *
    9 3Lz ! 6.60 x
    10 FSSp4
    11 SlSt3
    12 FCCoSp3

    This was the layout when she almost went to the 2010 Olympics.

    Her SP was

    1 3F+2T 6.80
    2 3Lz 6.00
    3 CCoSp4
    4 SlSt3
    5 FSSp4
    6 SpSq4
    7 2A
    8 LSp3

    She has done the no 3/3 in the FS for putting 2A in sequence. It did work for her. I wonder if the 2A not being in the 2nd half was a timing mistake. Because obviously a 2/5 layout is very good to have. Once the timer hits 2 minutes you should be doing 5 jumps in a row.

  15. #45
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,016
    Quote Originally Posted by Ginask8s View Post
    Why is a axel toe sequence better than the axel toe combo?
    Because she can actually rotate it all the time and get +GOE. The base value for a backloaded 3T+2A seq is only .89 less than a 2A+3T combo anyway.

Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •