- Joined
- Aug 21, 2012
Gracie's smart. She said after WTT that she needs more intricate choreography. Hopefully, it was a hint that she'll be traveling to the likes of David Wilson, Jeff Buttle, Marina Zoueva, or Tatiana Tarasova soon.
Wagner's Olympic Strategy: Play It Safe?
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
Gracie's smart. She said after WTT that she needs more intricate choreography. Hopefully, it was a hint that she'll be traveling to the likes of David Wilson, Jeff Buttle, Marina Zoueva, or Tatiana Tarasova soon.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2011
If she skates consistently, It wont matter that much
her PCS Gap with Wagner will get even
I fully expect Gracie as the No.1 American lady by Sochi
Wagner maybe 2nd or 3rd
Why is a axel toe sequence better than the axel toe combo? I dont think she does solo toes much.
2 Ashley Wagner, SC of Wilmington Inc 122.15 61.94 60.21 0.00
1 3F+2T+2T
2 3Lo
3 CCoSp4
4 SpSq4
5 2A
6 3S *
7 3Lo+2A+SEQ*
8 3F+2A+SEQ *
9 3Lz ! 6.60 x
10 FSSp4
11 SlSt3
12 FCCoSp3
This was the layout when she almost went to the 2010 Olympics.
Her SP was
1 3F+2T 6.80
2 3Lz 6.00
3 CCoSp4
4 SlSt3
5 FSSp4
6 SpSq4
7 2A
8 LSp3
She has done the no 3/3 in the FS for putting 2A in sequence. It did work for her. I wonder if the 2A not being in the 2nd half was a timing mistake. Because obviously a 2/5 layout is very good to have. Once the timer hits 2 minutes you should be doing 5 jumps in a row.
1 3F+2T+2T
2 3Lo
3 CCoSp4
4 SpSq4
5 2A
6 3S *
7 3Lo+2A+SEQ*
8 3F+2A+SEQ *
9 3Lz ! 6.60 x
10 FSSp4
11 SlSt3
12 FCCoSp3
This was the layout when she almost went to the 2010 Olympics.
Her SP was
1 3F+2T 6.80
2 3Lz 6.00
3 CCoSp4
4 SlSt3
5 FSSp4
6 SpSq4
7 2A
8 LSp3
She has done the no 3/3 in the FS for putting 2A in sequence. It did work for her. I wonder if the 2A not being in the 2nd half was a timing mistake. Because obviously a 2/5 layout is very good to have. Once the timer hits 2 minutes you should be doing 5 jumps in a row.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Country
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Because she can actually rotate it all the time and get +GOE. The base value for a backloaded 3T+2A seq is only .89 less than a 2A+3T combo anyway.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2012
Exactly! She has never rotated a 2A+3T AND received a positive GOE, so I think that a 3T+2A sequence would work a lot better for her...
Please, please not Tarasova. That would be the kiss of death. (exaggeration to show how strongly I feel about this)
In her early years, Ashely skated with a wonderful abandon. She seems now to hold back too much imo. Also, she announced in a tweet during WTT that she has found the "love of her life". Being in love can be quite distracting. Imo she should have tried the 3/3 this season, except possibly at Nationals if she were't being successful with it.
Like some others, I expect Gold will probably move ahead of her next year and that will be something else for Ashely to deal with. And , maybe, even a change of coach, if Nicks ups and retires.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
I agree that she should either go with the 3 loop/toe or 3 toe/ toe in her Sp next season. For the Lp maybe she should stick with the double axel sequence. There are too many people doing the double axel/ triple toe
combination in the Lp. What about a double flip, half loop triple toe. Would that get her the same value as the double axel triple toe? She needs to fine a combination equal to the value of that jump .
combination in the Lp. What about a double flip, half loop triple toe. Would that get her the same value as the double axel triple toe? She needs to fine a combination equal to the value of that jump .
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2012
What's wrong with Tarasova? I genuinely don't understand. I'm not saying that Gracie should go to her for coaching--only for choreography.
But David Wilson is my first choice for Gracie, anyway. He did wonders for Yuna's expression early in her career.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Country
-
I think neither of Tarasova or Wilson is a good choice for Gracie.
The work of Tarasova with a pair with quirky charm, K&N's late unlamented Meadowlands FD that had to be scrapped:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CN8AcyI9D4
Tarasova does nice work with balletic skaters like Mao & Sasha, but she's just out of her comfort zone with someone like Gracie.
I'm not that crazy about Wilson's work in general
The work of Tarasova with a pair with quirky charm, K&N's late unlamented Meadowlands FD that had to be scrapped:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CN8AcyI9D4
Tarasova does nice work with balletic skaters like Mao & Sasha, but she's just out of her comfort zone with someone like Gracie.
I'm not that crazy about Wilson's work in general
?? Only tweet I saw with those words is her wishing "happy birthday to the love of her life @weaverpoje" and I believe she was talking about Kaitlyn, whose birthday was this week.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I'd like to see her do a LP something like:
3F-3T (she should be doing this in the short so it will already be trained)
3R-2A SEQ
3Z
3S
3F
3R
2A-2T-2T
This allows her to repeat two jumps that she usually gets +GOE on (3R and 3F) and do 2 axels. I think the judges will give her a little more credit for a 3F-3T than a 2A-3T somehow (extra PCS or some other way that judges compensate for difficulty when the base mark doesn't).
3F-3T (she should be doing this in the short so it will already be trained)
3R-2A SEQ
3Z
3S
3F
3R
2A-2T-2T
This allows her to repeat two jumps that she usually gets +GOE on (3R and 3F) and do 2 axels. I think the judges will give her a little more credit for a 3F-3T than a 2A-3T somehow (extra PCS or some other way that judges compensate for difficulty when the base mark doesn't).
I'm not sure what Ashley's strategy should be in the SP - but I definitely feel in the LP that she should aim for 7-triples, which she can do w/o having a 3f-3t or 2x-3t. Didn't Ashley use to have a solo 3t? If Ashley has a layout similar to what's below and just focus on skating clean, with power and speed (removing the pressure of a 3f-3t or 2x-3t and getting -GOEs for underrotations, etc.), she has a very good shot at making the podium:
3f-2t-2t
3t-2x (seq)
3s
3r
3z
3r-2x (seq)
3f
Even the SP - maybe she should just move all 3 jump elements to the 2nd half for that 1.1 factor and avoid trying the 3-3? I doubt at the Olympics that all that many skaters will actually follow through with their 3-3s. Skating clean will put her in good stead. Look at Arakawa in 2006 - everyone though that 3-3s would dominate the event, but she ended up winning with just 5 triples and no 3-3s in sight.
3f-2t-2t
3t-2x (seq)
3s
3r
3z
3r-2x (seq)
3f
Even the SP - maybe she should just move all 3 jump elements to the 2nd half for that 1.1 factor and avoid trying the 3-3? I doubt at the Olympics that all that many skaters will actually follow through with their 3-3s. Skating clean will put her in good stead. Look at Arakawa in 2006 - everyone though that 3-3s would dominate the event, but she ended up winning with just 5 triples and no 3-3s in sight.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2012
Ashley's 3F is so huge that it's hard for her to get the 3T on the end. She should be aiming for a 3T-2A, as has been mentioned. If the 3Lo is by far her strongest jump, why not try a 3Lo-3Lo? It would be difficult, but it could land her on the podium if she's clean. So, a dream routine for her would be:
3F-2T-2T
3Lo-3Lo
3T-2A
3Lz
3F
3S-2A
3F-2T-2T
3Lo-3Lo
3T-2A
3Lz
3F
3S-2A
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I think there is an assumption that if Ashley doesn't try a 3-3 she will skate clean. That isn't necessarily the case. Defending her national title was a huge test for her and she didn't really skate well in the long, and it's yet to be seen how she will handle the pressure at the games. I do agree that she is more likely to skate clean if she attempts an easier program because mistakes seem to rattle her (i.e. if she makes one, she usually makes another).
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2012
I think Ashley's chances of defending her title will hinge on how Gracie looks next season. If her Grand Prix events are a repeat of this season's--i.e., nerves and silly mistakes--then the national judges will seriously doubt her ability to enter the Olympics as the US champion, and will score her accordingly.
Well - from GPF, Nationals and Worlds we know that's definitely not the case...
I'm not even sure how much you can blame her lackluster Nats FS on the injury. I think she simply couldn't handle the pressure of being the defending champ (she's not the first, nor will she be the last)
This may be what she'll have to do if she cannot get the 2A/3T consistent. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and do what you know you can do well. OTOH, if she gets that (and/or a 3-3) down over the summer, and tries it in a few comps without issue, she should absolutely go for it (and perhaps have an easier backup plan to fall back on if her competitors mess up)
This may be what she'll have to do if she cannot get the 2A/3T consistent. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and do what you know you can do well. OTOH, if she gets that (and/or a 3-3) down over the summer, and tries it in a few comps without issue, she should absolutely go for it (and perhaps have an easier backup plan to fall back on if her competitors mess up)
I agree. I think Tom Dickson, who has done a great job with Alexander Johnson, would be a good match for Gold in choreo. She also needs to actually listen to the music to which she is skating and Dickson should be able to help her with that.
