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Thread: Wagner's Olympic Strategy: Play It Safe?

  1. #61
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    As far as Wagner is concerned, she plays it safe all too often. Nicks often tends to want to play it safe, which is a mistake now when tech content is essential to reach the podium in major competitions. In order to have consistent content, you have to put it out there day after day so that you can do it when you need it at important competitions, not back out of it time and again.

  2. #62
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    I agree. I think Tom Dickson, who has done a great job with Alexander Johnson, would be a good match for Gold in choreo. She also needs to actually listen to the music to which she is skating and Dickson should be able to help her with that.
    I hope so but ultimately I think it all depends on the skater. I think Lori could do the same thing. I do not think Lori should choreograph for Gracie but I think Gracie could benefit from working with Lori in terms of her presentation, expression and really listening and feeling the music. I think she has gotten better at performing rather than just skating...but she still has a long way to go. Her deadpan/zoned-out face still makes too many appearances during her skates and her stiffness really needs some work.

    She's definitely getting better but most importantly she needs to work on her focus, especially for the SP. She makes way too many mistakes in the SP and even though she can make up a lot of ground in the FS thanks to her content, she always comes up short of gold and that's how it will continue to be until she can get that aspect of her skating together.

    Gracie will definitely put the pressure on Ashley next season which means Ashley needs to step it up.

    I agree she needs a 3-3 in the SP. I'd like to see the 3L-3T as an alternative to the 3F-3T, though I think working on cranking out that 3F-3T should be her priority this summer. She has a lot of options in terms of her FS so it's up to Team Wagner to figure out what will work best.

  3. #63
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Just saying, but there are no direct points even in PCS for facial expression. Only people watching on TV can generally see much of it.

  4. #64
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Just saying, but there are no direct points even in PCS for facial expression. Only people watching on TV can generally see much of it.
    I don't think she has to make facial expressions in order to be "artistic" but there's a difference between a relaxed face and a completely blank face. Gracie goes blank a lot of the time b/c she's thinking her way through her programs. If there were some convincing expression in her movement I'd forgive her vacant facial expression but when the delivery of her choreography matches her face the whole program comes off perfunctory and very rehearsed.

    Look at Kanako. She's not big on "ooh" and "aah" faces throughout her program but there is a tension to her movement that portrays an understanding of the character or feeling of her music. It's not very apparent on her face but I can see it in her delivery of the program. That's what Gracie needs to work on to bring her skating to the next level. When she skates well and gets to the end of her program, a light switch flips on and this really happy joy can be seen in her movements. It's really nice! She needs to work on projecting that joy and happiness (that kind of connection to her emotions) during the entire program instead of just the last 30 seconds.

    Once she gains some consistency and learns to really perform that girl will be unstoppable.

  5. #65
    I'm out. aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    When did Ashley ever say she was going to the Olympics to buy clothes? *confused* If that was sarcasm, that wasn't the best sarcasm.
    blue_idealist, Ralph Lauren makes the Olympic uniforms for the U.S.A. So FlattFan is basically saying that Ashley should bring her best if she wants to go to the Olympics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Because she can actually rotate it all the time and get +GOE. The base value for a backloaded 3T+2A seq is only .89 less than a 2A+3T combo anyway.
    I think she's been doing a 3Lo+2A sequence this year, so what about a 3T+3S sequence like Sasha used to do?

    And what's the difference between a 3T+2A sequence and 3T/Lo/2A anyway?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    ?? Only tweet I saw with those words is her wishing "happy birthday to the love of her life @weaverpoje" and I believe she was talking about Kaitlyn, whose birthday was this week.
    I guess I'm missing something. Why would Kaitlyn be the love of her life? On some board some thought it was Andrew.

  7. #67
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    the point was that nice facial expressions are a 'nice to have,' not a Pcs requirement.

  8. #68
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    the point was that nice facial expressions are a 'nice to have,' not a Pcs requirement.
    I know. But performance/execution and interpretation are part of PCS and, despite the mid 7s the judges like to throw her way, she still needs a lot of work in those areas.

  9. #69
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEyA2XKRK-U

    I just saw this.

    The girl's got spunk!! I might even become a fan.

  10. #70
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Yes, but if you read the rules for PCS, facial expression is not there. Otherwise, Chan would not get the huge PCS scores he does.

    Not that Gracie couldn't pick up a half a point or so by improving that, but not that much.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 04-15-2013 at 06:05 PM.

  11. #71
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    I definitely agree that in skating, expressiveness and artistry in terms of your body and movements are more important than facial expressions, but I always thought that even if facial expressions are not explicitly listed in the PCS, they can have an unspoken effect on the general PCS scores and the "feeling" the judges takes away from the performance overall. I mean, what if someone skated to Schindler's List with a huge pageant queen smile on their face?
    Even if judges can't always see the skater's face well, it's a televised sport and they're also performing for audiences at home. So it's pretty important.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Yes, but if you read the rules for PCS, facial expression is not there. Otherwise, Chan would not get the huge PCS scores he does.

    Not that Gracie could pick up a half a point or so by improving that, but not that much.
    I think she needs to continue her work in feeling the music and putting more nuances in her music. I actually think she has excellent timing, but she needs to use that tool more effectively (and her choreography needs to bring that out more).

    A bit off-topic, but it has driven me crazy when people on various boards are like "Why is Gracie so joyful and smiley; the movie takes place during the Holocaust!" And it drives me crazy because "Life is Beautiful", yes does take place during the Holocaust, but the whole theme of the movie is about Robert Benigni's character trying to put a joyful attitude so his son could endure the horrors of the concentration camp. I don't know if Gracie is being intentional or not, but I do think the program, when performed well, has sort of a childhood joy to it.

    "Life is Beautiful" =/= Schindler's List

  13. #73
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    The marching sequence is probably supposed to be Benigni being marched to his death and portraying the clown for his son, so the son will not be more frightened. And that's the problem with using movie soundtracks. Even if you portray the story well, not everyone will have watched the movie or understood it.

    I had no clue how good Belbin & Agosto's Amelie FD was until I watched the movie about 3 years afterward

  14. #74
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I had no clue how good Belbin & Agosto's Amelie FD was until I watched the movie about 3 years afterward
    Do you think they deserved the Bronze at that Worlds? I feel it's definitely their best FD ever (discounting the tech).

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    A bit off-topic, but it has driven me crazy when people on various boards are like "Why is Gracie so joyful and smiley; the movie takes place during the Holocaust!" And it drives me crazy because "Life is Beautiful", yes does take place during the Holocaust, but the whole theme of the movie is about Robert Benigni's character trying to put a joyful attitude so his son could endure the horrors of the concentration camp. I don't know if Gracie is being intentional or not, but I do think the program, when performed well, has sort of a childhood joy to it.

    "Life is Beautiful" =/= Schindler's List
    I know you weren't necessarily referring to me, but when I made the Schindler's List comment it was actually meant as a general comment. I wasn't referring specifically to Gracie's "Life is Beautiful" program, even though we were discussing Gracie. I was actually thinking of a popular youtube video where this girl is doing this interpretive dance to music from "Schindler's List" but she appears to have a smile on her face, which made it kind of awkward for me

    I've seen "Life is Beautiful" many times but when I first saw Gracie's skate, I never would have guessed the music was from that film.

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