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Thread: Wagner's Olympic Strategy: Play It Safe?

  1. #91
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    I think she's been doing a 3Lo+2A sequence this year, so what about a 3T+3S sequence like Sasha used to do?

    And what's the difference between a 3T+2A sequence and 3T/Lo/2A anyway?
    3T+3S is no longer a sequence as the 1Lo (1/2 loop) is used to connect the two. The 1/2 loop is a tricky beast to land fully backwards (go look at the JGP events - there were 3 or 4 ladies who got a 1Lo << in their 3 jump, or watch earlier incarnations of Gold's FS with the 3F+1Lo+3S where the 3S was messy) and being able to do a 3S after it is even trickier in that the tendency is to start opening up the checking arm after the 1/2 loop and it needs to stay FIRMLY checked for even a single Sal to be successful. There is no such thing as a 3T+Lo+2A. It would either be 3T (step forward)+2A (Sequence) or 3T (tap toe)+2A (Sequence)

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I'm pretty sure, again, Ashley was referring to Kaitlyn, not Andrew in that tweet because it was her birthday, not Andrew's (his is in February). People say stuff like "the love of my life" in a less romantic way too. I'm pretty sure Ashley became good friends with Weaver/Poje after skating with them at Stars on Ice in Canada last year.

    So I think we need to stop using that as a factor in our discussions unless we get proof, (ala Gracie Gold's cupcakes to Max Aaron) that she is dating someone.
    Oh no so sorry for my misunderstanding; I guess I read some other posts too. Isn't Gracie a bit young for Aaron and really cupcakes - is she trying to sink the American team lol.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    3T+3S is no longer a sequence as the 1Lo (1/2 loop) is used to connect the two. The 1/2 loop is a tricky beast to land fully backwards (go look at the JGP events - there were 3 or 4 ladies who got a 1Lo << in their 3 jump, or watch earlier incarnations of Gold's FS with the 3F+1Lo+3S where the 3S was messy) and being able to do a 3S after it is even trickier in that the tendency is to start opening up the checking arm after the 1/2 loop and it needs to stay FIRMLY checked for even a single Sal to be successful.
    For me, the person who did this combo best was Surya Bonaly. One great example was the 1994 Olympics.

  4. #94
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    I don't think Ashley should play it safe at all. Also, perhaps a new choreographer will be the best thing for her. It just might get her out of the comfort zone she appears to be in. That being said it all depends on what happens with Mr. Nicks and his coaching one more Olympic games.

  5. #95
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    I just wonder where this leaves John Nicks... Anyone know whether he's officially retired now? Is Ashley looking for a new choreographer *as well* as a new coach? Because as I understood it, Mills was going to become Ashley's fulltime coach in case Nicks retired (so it's not just a choreographer/skater split, it's a coaching split as well). I really hope John Nicks will take Ashley to the Olympics... I truly think he's good for her. Keeps her focused.
    Good question. It's too soon to tell what may happen but if Nicks does retire, sounds like Wagner will have to look for another coach, which could mean another big move. Not really the thing she'd want at this point IMO.

    "Playing it safe" aside, Nicks has been great for her. He got her from 6th in the US to top 5 in the world. Granted, he hasn't gotten her onto the podium yet but each small step is very important. Last-minute change didn't pan out for MK so hopefully Team Wagner will be able to work things out. If she has to go back to her old coach, it may be a step back for her in the long run.

  6. #96
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    Looking up articles about Nicks possible retirement, it looks like on the one side Ashley seemed pretty convinced he was going to stay on and he was just spreading the rumour to keep her on her toes, on the other side with Philip Mills being involved in her coaching from day one, it would seem it really was planned that Nicks was going to retire eventually, possibly even before the Olympics.

    I hope we won't have to wait until October until we know the deal.

    Yes, Nicks hasn't gotten her onto the podium yet, but he's gotten her to be a medal contender. Multiple GP wins, 4 continents win, LP bronze in Nice... That's the whole point of this thread, I think, she's close but it looks like she needs just that little bit extra something (technical content?) to close the remaining gap between her and a medal. Changing everything (both choreographer and coach, training situation, location etc) would likely end up being a step in the wrong direction.

    I'm crossing my fingers John Nicks will help her find a new, good choreographer. I went looking on Wikipedia who Sasha's past choreographers were (not that you can compare Ashley to Sasha, but still) - a lot of programs by Morozov (I didn't know that!), Tarasova and Sasha herself (with John Nicks!). Don't know what kind of choreographer would work best for Ashley?

  7. #97
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    Don't know what kind of choreographer would work best for Ashley?
    Someone who can tap into her core personality as a skater, bring it out, and exploit it to its fullest.

    NOT someone who tries to switch her style or turn her into THEIR idea of a great skater.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Oh no so sorry for my misunderstanding; I guess I read some other posts too. Isn't Gracie a bit young for Aaron and really cupcakes - is she trying to sink the American team lol.
    Aaron is only 21 i think and Gracie turns 18 in a few months.

  9. #99
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I was always OK with them getting the bronze, despite being 4th in the FD. However,after I saw the movie, I would probably have given them3rd in the FD over the hot mess that was Delobel & Schoenfelder's "Untouchables" program with the fake gun hands (of course, I have a definite prejudice against fake gun hands, so that is perhaps not wholly fair ).

    In fact, if I were on the tech panel, I would not have given Dubreuil & Lauzon level 4 in the twizzles, given that Patrice hopped through them in his less favored direction, and I would also give them lower PCS than they received from the judges, so they and B&A would be about even for me in that dance.
    I would have put Delobel & Schoenfelder 7th in both the OD and FD (and so overall too). They had a sloppy, lackluster Worlds. I'd have the Russians 6th. Virtue/Moir and Davis/White in 4th and 5th!

  10. #100
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    Wasn't Ashley difficult to work with? If both are strong head, that's how it's going to end.

    Anyway, let's get real. Mills got her to 4th best PCS. NO CHOREOGRAPHER will get her higher than that. I see her PCS tanking next year.

  11. #101
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Actually her PCS was only 5th best for the season, Suzuki just skated poorly at Worlds. A lot of that was rep for momentum and #1 American status too. Nobody is ever going to look back at Ashley's LP from the past season and truly care about it. Well, maybe her WTT version, since the hair thing worked itself perfectly into the choreography and actually made the program a lot better. LMAO.

    Ashley could be top 3 if she has the programs and really sets herself up strong next season. One of Kostner or Asada are going to have a rough Olympic season. You can just feel it.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Actually her PCS was only 5th best for the season, Suzuki just skated poorly at Worlds. A lot of that was rep for momentum and #1 American status too. Nobody is ever going to look back at Ashley's LP from the past season and truly care about it. Well, maybe her WTT version, since the hair thing worked itself perfectly into the choreography and actually made the program a lot better. LMAO.

    Ashley could be top 3 if she has the programs and really sets herself up strong next season. One of Kostner or Asada are going to have a rough Olympic season. You can just feel it.
    Ashley will not get top 3 PCS. No choreographer will be able to do it.
    Best thing is to keep the status quo and upgrade TES.

  13. #103
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    You have very strange biases.

  14. #104
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    There is nothing wrong with "playing it safe" and knowing your limits. If your technique is not good enough for a second triple you can find other ways to maximize BV without it, as Blade of Passion suggested.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moment View Post
    There is nothing wrong with "playing it safe" and knowing your limits. If your technique is not good enough for a second triple you can find other ways to maximize BV without it, as Blade of Passion suggested.
    May have to "play games" with the numbers to try to make the points work out. It's a math exercise too.

    Not a fan of this strategy to be honest. I'd rather see the tech. But sometimes you do what you gotta do and you work with what you have to work with.

    Ashley could be top 3 if she has the programs and really sets herself up strong next season. One of Kostner or Asada are going to have a rough Olympic season. You can just feel it.
    Yes, possibly - but remember, it could happen to Wagner too.

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