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Thread: Is Abbott finished?

  1. #121
    Outdated Old Dinosaur
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    Blades of Passion, I sincerely appreciate your support for Jeremy. I agree with you that there are many aspects of his skating that are commendable.

    But you didn't answer a question I posed a few posts above:

    After Max lit up the arena at Nationals, did you expect with full conviction that Jeremy would also skate brilliantly? Were you on the edge of your seat, just knowing he'd do something spectacular?

    He's a great skater, but he's not a great competitor.

  2. #122
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Now in 2011 Abbot not only probably should have been placed higher at Nationals, but even with his 4th place should have been sent to Worlds.
    Actually I would have ranked Abbott lower overall at 2011 Nationals:

    1. Ross Miner (5th SP, 1st LP)
    2. Ryan Bradley (2nd SP, 4th LP)
    3. Richard Dornbush (7th SP, 2nd LP)
    4. Jason Brown (6th SP, 3rd LP)
    5. Jeremy Abbott (1st SP, 8th LP)
    6. Armin Mahbanoozadeh (9th SP, 5th LP)
    7. Keegan Messing (3rd SP, 7th LP)
    8. Adam Rippon (10th SP, 6th LP)
    9. Brandon Mroz (4th SP, 9th LP)

    Still should have gone to Worlds, though, because Dornbush and Brown had Junior Worlds to attend.

    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    After Max lit up the arena at Nationals, did you expect with full conviction that Jeremy would also skate brilliantly?
    I didn't expect anything. I suspected he would probably fail on a Quad attempt if he went for it, but none of this is relevant to judging what actually happened on the ice.

  3. #123
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    Blades, I am still awaiting your justification for sending Abbott over Miner.

    Miner had a better Grand Prix season AND beat him at Nationals (deservedly, whether you like it or not). So I'm really curious about this justification.

  4. #124
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    Jeremy has no one to blame but himself for missing Worlds two out of the last three years. A skater of his talent should not be missing Worlds that often especially since there are no dominate skaters right now in the US.

  5. #125
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Blades, I am still awaiting your justification for sending Abbott over Miner.
    Because he was better at Nationals. I've explained why in detail, but I'll write out how I would score their full protocols if you wish! Not sure where the confusion is.

  6. #126
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    Ross had his best competition of what was otherwise a meh season as his last competition before Nationals. That is why his PCS were so high at Nationals and why he came in 2nd and almost won even though Jeremy did not skate that badly by his standards. Jeremy ended his GP season on a low note, and Ross on a high note, so coming into Nationals, Jeremy's stock was down and Ross's was up. The performances they laid out there were fairly comparable in terms of how they should have scored, but Ross's good performance at NHK helped boost him up so that he beat Jeremy out for 2nd and the trip to Worlds. It really just comes down to that. Farris arguably should have also been considered for 2nd place but no way was that going to happen because he competed as a junior all season and choked a bit (understandably, due to allergic reaction, but nontheless) at the JGPF where Kovtun beat him easily. Plus after Max laid down the gauntlet no way were the judges going to put another newbie into 2nd and have the World team be 2 rookies with Olympic spots on the line. The only reason Farris is in the mix to make the Olympic team at all now is because Ross didn't deliver at 4CC or Worlds, Jeremy is still not at his best on top of being unreliable, Rippon did not attempt a quad all season, and Farris won Junior Worlds with a high score.

    Also I'm not seeing the favoritism with Dornbush, he was only sent to 4CC this year because Rippon withdrew due to injury, and the season before it wasn't that unreasonable considering Mahbanoozadeh bombed both his GPs and lost to him in the FS at Nationals while Ricky had decent showings on the GP and finished so low at Nationals solely due to bombing the SP (which was the first time he had done that that season). After Dornbush beat Miner so convincingly at 4CC, I think he could have reasonably replaced him at Worlds honestly. And if Dornbush had gone to Worlds, we might have actually gotten 3 spots because he can actually land his quads and has better PCS than the likes of Miner and Farris.

  7. #127
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    You're not seriously suggesting Dornbush would have finished 6th or higher, are you? That's a bigger joke than Jeremy Abbott having a clean international competition!

    Please show me those wonderful quads Dornbush landed at Nationals...

  8. #128
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    To answer the question, no I don´t think he is finished. There is a great performance in him yet. He just has to get pass his nerves and deliver and that is the frustrating part. Should all men at nationals skate clean he would be at the top. Should all men skate clean at Olympics, I would place him in the top 3/4 but, only because I favor Dai and Chan a hair more.

    At this point and time he is not injured has not had hip replacement or knee surgery so health wise he is still in the game.

    May I remind everyone of someone whom we all thought was finished but, in the end defied all odds. clue.... 1996.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterB View Post

    At this point and time he is not injured has not had hip replacement or knee surgery so health wise he is still in the game.

    .
    Actually, he was skating injured all of last year- and he still has back (disc) issues. I hope his team can keep his back managed well enough to have a great skate or two this season.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    You're not seriously suggesting Dornbush would have finished 6th or higher, are you? That's a bigger joke than Jeremy Abbott having a clean international competition!

    Please show me those wonderful quads Dornbush landed at Nationals...
    He landed a nice one in his SP at 4CC, and then another one, in combination, in his FS at 4CC as well. Watch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsmYLGijC_Y (SP) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBqT4DgqkEI (FS)

    Also, Dornbush's score at Finlandia was higher than Miner's at NHK, and their results at the other two internationals each attended in the fall were pretty comparable - not bad but not great. Dornbush also had the flu at Nationals which definitely didn't help matters. With clean skates I think he could have maybe placed 6th at Worlds. The reason it's different then Abbott is that Abbott has a history of choking at Worlds, whereas Dornbush skated clean the one time he went as a rookie just up from juniors. Plus the quad is the biggest factor in terms of men's Worlds placements these days and Dornbush has one that's decently consistent whereas Jeremy definitely does not and Ross can do one but his success rate is considerably worse compared to Richard (also prone to UR which Richard is not). Dornbush wouldn't get PCS to the level of Abbott but when he skates well he can be the next highest of all the US men. Why Rippon and Miner so often get supported ahead of him by the USFS when they both have glaring technical flaws that Dornbush does not have is beyond me. It's sort of an embarrassment that two years in a row, the skater considered second best in the deep field of US men finished outside the top 12 at Worlds delivering decent by their standards performances and have skary 3a technique. That's the one thing Abbott has going for him, he can skate pretty poorly and still finish ahead of a decent performance from most of the guys in consideration (except Aaron, Dornbush, and maybe Farris depending on how his PCS are looking in seniors). Merp..

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterB View Post
    Should all men skate clean at Olympics, I would place him in the top 3/4
    Should all the men skate cleanly at the Olympics then Abbott at this point would definitely finish below Chan, Hanyu, Fernandez, Takahashi, Ten, and probably Reynolds and Kozuka. Aaron by next year could be over him in that scenario depending how many quads he is doing, and if his PCS improve. 8th place would be about the best he could hope for even in that scenario right now, as technically even at his best he is weaker than many others right if they are also at theirs, and his PCS are not so dominant especialy at the world level to ever compensate. What he would have to hope for is to skate cleanly and alot of those others to make mistakes, a dubious proposition when he is less consistent than almost all of them to begin with.

    The days of Abbott being top 3 or 4 in an all clean competition at the World level, if they ever existed, are a long ways in the past.

  12. #132
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    His GP season isn't looking very great either. He'll be pressed to defeat Chan/Hanyu at Skate Canada (and will likely fight for bronze against Oda/Brezina/Mura)... but he does have a chance to defeat Miner and start his bid for that 2nd Olympic spot. NHK will also be a great chance to defeat Aaron and Rippon, but he'll likely be fighting for bronze again with Takahashi/Fernandez likely going 1-2. Two bronzes won't be enough for the GPF. Cup of China would have been a much easier GP assignment for him. But at least he has opportunities to defeat his main US competitors.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I dont think Evan is even likely to come back, and even if he does he probably wont skate that well, and even if he did I could easily see him missing the team in favor of Abbott who usually skates well at NAtionals, and pretty easily beats Evan at Nationals when he has. Evan is no huge favorite of the USFSA anymore, they even interfered with his comeback in 2011-2012. I predict no gifts for him at Nationals in the unlikely event he returns and he will have to skate spectacularly, probably with atleast 1 quad, to even make the team (again in the unlikely event he even shows which I doubt).
    I don´t remember that USFSA interfered, the problem was with sponsors (or his management) or something like that, I believe. Anyway, USFSA gave Evan Skate America last year, but unfortunately he got injured. Now they are giving him Skate America again which does not sound like they are unfavourable towards him, I would say

  14. #134
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    ^^^ I would imagine they have Evan slated for Skate America to boost ticket sales.

    An American who is reigning Olympic Champion should be a pretty big draw for the general public I'd think.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    ^^^ I would imagine they have Evan slated for Skate America to boost ticket sales.

    An American who is reigning Olympic Champion should be a pretty big draw for the general public I'd think.

    They adore Evan- and don't care for Abbott.


    Abbott has been Nat'l champ 3 times and only once has he been given SA. Abbott has his issues, but he's also had bad luck, injuries and a Fed that didn't favor him. (except perhaps 09 )

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