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Thread: State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season

  1. #166
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    I doubt USFS judges will hold Alissa up if she doesn't deliver a clean performance. Alissa turns 26 next month and IMO she will likely retire after this season if she makes the Olympic team. Alissa is the past, and younger skaters are the future.

  2. #167
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    If by "quite a while" you mean 2 months, then perhaps...
    No, I actually mean about 3 years. For those 3 years she consistently meadaled at her GP events and never placed below 4th. Until her injury before the GPF she was a consistent competitor in the sense that she placed well even if she didn't skate that well. I'm not a huge Alissa sympathizer (I've trashed her a zillion times before) but I do believe in giving credit where credit is due. Despite her headcasey-ness Alissa did well on the GP...

    I agree with the idea that this is Alissa's last hoorah and if she isn't looking at least halfway competitive I doubt the judges will throw her a lifeline. However, aside from Ashley, Gracie and maybe Christina and Mirai (on a good day), none of the other US girls have any kind of rep with the judges...Alissa does though. Even with watered down content (assuming she's able to hit most of it) she'd end up placing better than most of the newer girls. Alissa is the Korpi/Lepisto of the US...lesser content but still capable of scoring well. The US judges know this...that's why I say if she's decent at nationals she'll have a shot at that 3rd spot.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    If by "quite a while" you mean 2 months, then perhaps...
    No that entire 2010-2011 scene, and the beginning of the 2011-2012 scene

  4. #169
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I doubt USFS judges will hold Alissa up if she doesn't deliver a clean performance. Alissa turns 26 next month and IMO she will likely retire after this season if she makes the Olympic team. Alissa is the past, and younger skaters are the future.
    I think she will retire after this season either way. With the injury, especially (and even without it) she cannot truly think she has another 4 year cycle in her and she has done pretty much everything else there is to be done but go to the Olys.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Gracie gets good PCS based on the fact that she's fast, has very nice ice coverage, is a good multidirectional skater, and because of these things seems to project well (ie skates "big" compared to some of the other first year seniors like Li and Tuktamysheva). Yes, these are all areas she needs to improve to become a medal contender on the World stage, but she has a really good foundation both in the air and on the ice to be the American lady in the very near future.
    If the Big 3 retire immediately after the Sochi Olympics, Gracie shouldn't have a problem getting on the World podium, provided she's clean. If they decide to stay on for a last Worlds, then she probably won't medal, but she should be able to place ahead of Wagner for sure.

    Considering Li and Tuktamysheva...has there ever been a legitimate case in which a senior lady who skated "small" learned to adequately skate "big"? I'm thinking that it's a skill that you have to acquire early, like Gracie and Yuna clearly did.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by 96skiluvr View Post
    No that entire 2010-2011 scene, and the beginning of the 2011-2012 scene
    OK. Let's try it like this.

    The original statement said that Czisny was the lone carrier of US women for "quite a while". Her peak as a skater was in the period you mention above, so let's examine this a bit closer.

    Czisny's placements on the 2010-11 GP were: 1st at SC, 3rd at TEB, then 1st at GPF.

    But she wasn't the only medalist on the GP that year:

    - Flatt also had podium finishes: 2nd at SA and 2nd at NHK, qualifying for GPF.

    - Nagasu was 2nd at TEB that year, placing AHEAD of Czisny there.

    - Wagner picked up her (only) medal at COR, a bronze.

    * However, at GPF, Czisny was 1st while Flatt limped in last place. I can see the case here.

    Czisny did well, but (perhaps with the exception of the GPF) I dispute that she carried US women BY HERSELF in that period...because she didn't.

    Now, let's look at Four Continents 2011. Nagasu, Flatt and Czisny were our representatives that year. They went 3, 4, 5 in that order. That's right, Czisny was the LOWEST placer of the three in 5th. So here, too, I dispute that she carried US ladies because.....well, she didn't.

    * At 2011 Worlds, I can see the case again, as Czisny was the lone top 10 finisher (5th) while Flatt failed to land in the top 10. Still, even with that being said, it's not a medal. But this event and the GPF are the only two events of the season I see the statement being valid. Two months...December 2010 and March 2011

    Then, you mention the start of 2011-12. Let's look at the results:

    Czisny: 1st at SA, 3rd at TEB. Then, a tumble to 5th at GPF (which was last that year since Asada WD)

    Ignoring the GPF, the other US women medalists were:

    Wagner (3rd at SC)

    Nagasu (2nd at COC)

    So, the case here is a bit stronger than in 2010 given that Czisny was the lone US qualifier for the GPF, but still, after winning it last year she couldn't even medal the next. She was already falling - FAST - and the Worlds disaster was still 3 months away! She carried US ladies alright...right to the bottom of the barrel!

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    Considering Li and Tuktamysheva...has there ever been a legitimate case in which a senior lady who skated "small" learned to adequately skate "big"? I'm thinking that it's a skill that you have to acquire early, like Gracie and Yuna clearly did.
    Michelle Kwan

  8. #173
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    Alissa is the Korpi/Lepisto of the US...lesser content but still capable of scoring well.
    Actually...personally, I would argue that currently Wagner seems a much better fit to that role (womp womp!)

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Michelle Kwan
    Sorry, I should have been more specific. MK entered the senior ranks at 12 and was already skating "big" by the time she started challenging for international medals. She was World champion before the age that Li and Tukt are now. For a senior elite lady, sixteen is almost too late to learn to skate with Yuna or Gracie's ice coverage.

    This was an awkwardly phrased response, but what I'm really getting at is this: Have there been any notable instances of senior ladies significantly expanding their ice coverage in their late teens?

  10. #175
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    IMO, Alissa's competitive results are more like the Finnish ladies than Wagner's are. Wagner is FAR, FAR more consistent than either Korpi or Lepisto. The Finnish ladies usually have done well at Euros where there is limited top level competition, but at Worlds they have often struggled in either the SP or the FS. Lepisto won her one bronze World medal in an especially weak competition.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    So, the case here is a bit stronger than in 2010 given that Czisny was the lone US qualifier for the GPF, but still, after winning it last year she couldn't even medal the next. She was already falling - FAST - and the Worlds disaster was still 3 months away! She carried US ladies alright...right to the bottom of the barrel!
    She was already injured at GPF that year, with her calf injury as a result of compensating for her undiagnosed hip problem.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I doubt USFS judges will hold Alissa up if she doesn't deliver a clean performance. Alissa turns 26 next month and IMO she will likely retire after this season if she makes the Olympic team. Alissa is the past, and younger skaters are the future.
    I think she will retire even if she doesn't make the Olympic team.

  13. #178
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    It's so difficult to say one US Lady has led the pack this last quad. Flatt started off 10-11 well, but faded by worlds. Alissa had a great 10-11 season by far, and was the most consistent up until the GPF 2011. Mirai had a few great results but not spectacular (and I love her). Ashley really only came on strong at the 12 US Championships/4CC's/Worlds...and then a wonderful past season. Alissa 'led the pack' for the first year and a half, then Ashley picked up the role for the next year and a half. Of course, Gracie has added to the mix this past year.

    As far as Skate America assignments, I think it will be Wagner/Cesario/Hicks. They could give Alissa a host pick, but I think they'd rather give her more time to recover. Skate Canada is just a week later, and she's always done well there. At SA, I see Asada getting the top three seed, Wagner coming from the 4-6 pool, Sotnikova from the 7-9 group (Osmond will get SC and Li Cup of China as host pics at the following two GP's), and Meite from the 10-12 placings. Marchei and Imai train in Detroit, so they're obvious choices and aren't considered a huge threat to medal here. That leaves two spots open for non host picks. Perhaps a Helgesson sister or Leonova, who are guaranteed at least 1 GP.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    IMO, Alissa's competitive results are more like the Finnish ladies than Wagner's are. Wagner is FAR, FAR more consistent than either Korpi or Lepisto. The Finnish ladies usually have done well at Euros where there is limited top level competition, but at Worlds they have often struggled in either the SP or the FS. Lepisto won her one bronze World medal in an especially weak competition.
    Viewed from THAT angle, I can agree...but in terms of lesser tech content scoring well, I stand by my previous statement.

    ______

    The great thing about now is that (knock on wood!!!) we have TWO capable skaters, perhaps for the first time since Meissner/Hughes in 2006-2007, a duo that can comfortably place in the top 10 and take pressure off one specific lady to "get it done". Honestly, until Wagner this year I thought the 2008ers were all doomed or "cursed" so to speak. I didn't think we'd get the 3rd spot back...I figured history would repeat itself and Wagner would fall apart after Gold got our hopes up...it might have been Gold and other up and comer to do it post-Olys once all the 2008ers (including Czisny) retired.

  15. #180
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    This was an awkwardly phrased response, but what I'm really getting at is this: Have there been any notable instances of senior ladies significantly expanding their ice coverage in their late teens?
    Angela Nikodinov did.

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