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Thread: State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season

  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    Mirai IS one of the best in the US right now, Nationals results or no. She still has excellent presentation, but she's a lot slower than a lot of the other skaters, which probably accounts for her low PCS. She can be competitive for a World/Olympic team spot IF and only if she fixes her UR's -- national judges have shown that they won't hesitate to penalize her (hard) for technical errors, and PCS can't save her if her jumps aren't clean. For comparison, Christina and Agnes receive much lower PCS (rightfully), but they can usually land clean triples.
    This is only partially true. Agnes got higher PCS than Mirai in both the short and the long this year at Nationals. Mirai couldn't even beat Agnes's PCS in the short with a fall.

  2. #422
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    I am not judging flatts pcs but based on statements of others she had none so if they all gave flatt the 3 and 4 in pcs and she did all triples compared to czisny or whoever being more skate princess pcs and then pcs gave the victory to flatt even though flatt jumped and czisny didn't well when then the federation would not be doing a good job. They wanted a jumps because that's more tangible. Triple triple Tes gets assigned value. So that's one example of pushing that a federation might think of.

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    This is only partially true. Agnes got higher PCS than Mirai in both the short and the long this year at Nationals. Mirai couldn't even beat Agnes's PCS in the short with a fall.
    Yes and even internationally the difference is not that great. From the past season, for the strongest competition each girl put out internationally, the PCS were as follows: Mirai - 59.14 (NHK), Christina - 57.88 (4CC), Agnes - 55.33 (COR). So Mirai's PCS cushion over Christina is not significant regardless of if it's Nationals or Internationally, and compared to Agnes it's a little better internationally but Agnes gets huge PCS marks at Nationals and it's been like this for a few years now and she doesn't even need to skate that great to get them so I don't see that changing anytime soon.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    What I PERSONALLY think and what I believe American society AS A COLLECTIVE UNIT thinks are different.

    I mean, let's think about it. Why does the media even bother to use the term "All-American" in the first place? When examined a little closer, one realizes the media is very selective in their use of the term "All-American". Personally, I despise such a title. But it's a term that one cannot get away from these days.
    From Online Etymology Dictionary:
    all-American
    1888, as the name of a barnstorming baseball team composed of players from various teams across the United States. From all + American.
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...d_in_frame=0de

    The definitions of "all-American" from Macmillan Dictionary (of American English):
    (1): an all-American player is a student at a high school, college, or university in the U.S. who has officially been called one of the best in their particular sport
    (2): an all-American boy or girl has all the good qualities that many people in the U.S. consider typical of Americans, for example being attractive and healthy, and working hard
    (an all-American girl from the heart of Kansas)
    (3) made up only of people or things from the U.S.
    (It's going to be an all-American final.)
    http://www.macmillandictionary.com/u...n/all-American

    Absent from the etymology and these definitions are: "light skin, blond hair, blue eyes."

    Some of us recently discussed this topic at length within the "Figure skating needs CPR" thread, on pp. 6-9.
    I have no desire to rehash everything that I wrote at that time, but will conclude this post with one quote from myself:

    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Agree that it is too early to say that race is a negligible issue in the U.S.
    But I will mention Tiger Woods, who for many years was an advertiser's and broadcaster's dream. ... Before his unforgivable (IMHO) personal transgressions came to light, I was among many who would have said that he was as All-American as you can get.

  5. #425
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    An all-American girl from the heart of Kansa
    They don't care what color you are, just so you're from Kansas.
    Last edited by Mathman; 06-22-2013 at 06:27 PM.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    They don't care what color you are, just so you're from Kansas.
    "attractive and healthy, and working hard" -- as they are in Kansas.

  7. #427
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    Here is the most famous athlete in West Des Moines, Kansas, and her coach.

    http://www.asianweek.com/wp-content/...ese-Coach.jpeg

  8. #428
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Here is the most famous athlete in West Des Moines, Kansas, and her coach.

    http://www.asianweek.com/wp-content/...ese-Coach.jpeg
    Mathman, thank you for finding the perfect example of an all-American gal from Kansas.
    Don't want to steal your thunder [entirely ], so I hope that everyone will click on your JPEG link to see one of the most successful athletes from the London Olympics.

  9. #429
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    Oh, bleep. Des Moines is in Iowa. Oh well.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Hi, FF. Following your train of thought, it seems to me that Nagasu is as "deserving" (my word, not yours) as Flatt and Czisny of a "fair share of kindness" from USFSA. Nagasu obviously fits your description of "a skater who has performed well at Worlds and/or the Olympics" -- placing well above Flatt in Vancouver, for example.
    I agree, of course. I was intending to question/challenge the notion that skaters like Flatt and Czisny received such generosity due to their hair color rather than their previous achievements.

    Additionally, I don't think that LeCygne, R.D., or Pepe Nero were suggesting that ethnicity plays a role in one's all-American-ness. The tone of their posts implied that they disapproved of such attitudes, if anything.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    This is only partially true. Agnes got higher PCS than Mirai in both the short and the long this year at Nationals. Mirai couldn't even beat Agnes's PCS in the short with a fall.
    Internationally, though ... the difference is there.

  12. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Here is the most famous athlete in West Des Moines, Kansas, and her coach.

    http://www.asianweek.com/wp-content/...ese-Coach.jpeg
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Oh, bleep. Des Moines is in Iowa. Oh well.
    If it's any comfort, MM:

    West New York is a town in New Jersey. (No joke.)

    So your mistake is totally forgivable, as far as I'm concerned.

  13. #433
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    So Alissa is doomed because she's brunette? Mirai didn't win Nationals in 2010 because she's asian and Rachael is blonde? Zhang and Gao have never received Nationals inflation because they too are asian and not blonde white girls? Agnes and Courtney got on the podium at Nationals this year because they went blonde while Gao and Cesario are still asian and brunette, respectively? Seriously? While I get there is weird scoring business going on at Nationals each year, I highly doubt it has to do with race, hair color, or what state in the country one is from For what it's worth, Ashley and Gracie are both naturally brunettes too (I know Gracie was maybe blonde when she was little but looking at those roots of hers, if her hair wasn't bleached it would definitely be brown now).

  14. #434
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    now that's really reaching.

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    So Alissa is doomed because she's brunette? Mirai didn't win Nationals in 2010 because she's asian and Rachael is blonde? Zhang and Gao have never received Nationals inflation because they too are asian and not blonde white girls? Agnes and Courtney got on the podium at Nationals this year because they went blonde while Gao and Cesario are still asian and brunette, respectively? Seriously? While I get there is weird scoring business going on at Nationals each year, I highly doubt it has to do with race, hair color, or what state in the country one is from For what it's worth, Ashley and Gracie are both naturally brunettes too (I know Gracie was maybe blonde when she was little but looking at those roots of hers, if her hair wasn't bleached it would definitely be brown now).
    I don't think anyone is certain that racial bias is at play during Nationals; based on previous years' results, a few posters merely suggested this as a tentative possibility, which is always interesting to consider. It sounds ridiculous, but you can't discount unconscious assumptions on behalf of the USFSA. As I said earlier, Ashley and Gracie are currently blondes (both are naturally brunettes, yes) who happen to be the best in the US, although their talent has nothing to do with their hair color. Gao and Zhang are in the bottom of the top tier because of their skating, not their ethnicity.

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