State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season

Mrs. P · Sep 13, 2013

drivingmissdaisy said:
I agree that Gracie might not have phrased it right, but I still think it's a packaging problem. Gracie is 18, young in the grand scheme of life but not that young in ladies' figure skating. She is who she is, and at this point I'd love to see her make the best of what that is and not try to be something she isn't.

But I don't see how trying mime is being something you're not, though. We assume that it's easy for Gracie just to say "hey I'm a power skater, I'm going to express myself that way now," but as golden411 said, she is having trouble expressing anything.

Expression of one's self doesn't come naturally. I think mime is not just about the "act' but also the ability to look at oneself. I hope Gracie gets something good out of it.

kwanatic · Sep 13, 2013

drivingmissdaisy said:
I agree that Gracie might not have phrased it right, but I still think it's a packaging problem. Gracie is 18, young in the grand scheme of life but not that young in ladies' figure skating. She is who she is, and at this point I'd love to see her make the best of what that is and not try to be something she isn't.

I agree. Going for the emotional deep pieces like "Life is Beautiful" or even the semi-princessy programs like "Sleeping Beauty" just don't make sense given Gracie's skill set. She's not graceful, she's not an expressive or emotionally moving skater...she's speed and energy...power. I'd like to see some music and programs that highlight those qualities. Instead they package her in a way leaves her looking like a wannabe artistic skater. Drop the pretense and just go for what you know and do well. I'd be much happier watching her do that than suffering through her attempts at making her emotions look genuine...

aftertherain · Sep 13, 2013

kwanatic said:
I agree. Going for the emotional deep pieces like "Life is Beautiful" or even the semi-princessy programs like "Sleeping Beauty" just don't make sense given Gracie's skill set. She's not graceful, she's not an expressive or emotionally moving skater...she's speed and energy...power. I'd like to see some music and programs that highlight those qualities. Instead they package her in a way leaves her looking like a wannabe artistic skater. Drop the pretense and just go for what you know and do well. I'd be much happier watching her do that than suffering through her attempts at making her emotions look genuine...

Basically, just because you look like Miss America doesn't mean you have to act like Miss America. You can look like Miss America and throw it down like Xena.

kwanatic · Sep 13, 2013

aftertherain said:
Basically, just because you look like Miss America doesn't mean you have to act like Miss America. You can look like Miss America and throw it down like Xena.

LOL! H*ll yeah!! :clap:

drivingmissdaisy · Sep 13, 2013

aftertherain said:
Basically, just because you look like Miss America doesn't mean you have to act like Miss America. You can look like Miss America and throw it down like Xena.

Exactly. She is more of a Batman/Wild Thing type skater (Harding's 90-91 LP music choices).

drivingmissdaisy · Sep 13, 2013

Mrs. P said:
But I don't see how trying mime is being something you're not, though.

It's not the miming as much as the miming to be Sleeping Beauty that I have an issue with

R.D. · Sep 13, 2013

drivingmissdaisy said:
She says: “It’s sort of a new thing that has been added to my training. … The physical acting is to sort of have that emotion where it seems genuine.”

I read this and cringe. If you see Michelle, Irina, Tara, Midori, Sarah, Mao or Yuna performing their best, the joy they express is very real. Hiring a coach to teach you to "fake" genuine emotion is the wrong approach IMO.

"American Timothy Goebel, the 2002 Olympic bronze medalist, worked with a mime, too."

'Nuff said.

Well there you go. The pressure to be this so-called "complete skater" claims yet ANOTHER victim.

(And can we ditch that stupid term once and for all...the "complete" or "well-rounded" skater?)

GGoldberg · Sep 13, 2013

Whether Gracie spoke "cleverly" about it or not, the use of Acting and Mime coaches is smart, helpful and frankly obvious and should be very common place.

For those top athletes who are NOT working periodically with someone to help polish this aspect of their performance, they are simply NOT utilizing all the available and in my opinion obvious tools that are out there.

Perhaps some athletes (unique and rare) have natural abilities, but like working with a ballet coach for arms, Mime for expression seems just BASIC to me for the elite.

Icey · Sep 13, 2013

Actors fake emotions all the time and many have coaches on the set to help them do that. Every actor is not a method actor.

kwanatic · Sep 13, 2013

Icey said:
Actors fake emotions all the time and many have coaches on the set to help them do that. Every actor is not a method actor.

That's why I said great actors don't fake emotion. I doubt if every actor is capable of pulling out every emotion but the good ones are, and I seriously doubt a respectable acting coach would encourage an actor to fake emotion.

Help them get to a place where they could convey it convincingly, yes...but flat out fake it? I'd want my money back...:sarcasm:

mskater93 · Sep 13, 2013

Gold tries so hard to be all things to people - she wants to PLEASE everyone, and so she is out to get mime lessons to improve her projection. She maybe wasn't eloquent in her description of why/what she's trying to get out of this, but seriously, this is a good thing for her.

Jammers · Sep 13, 2013

Hopefully as she gets older Gracie will take more control over her skating and career.

Mathman · Sep 13, 2013

kwanatic said:
That's why I said great actors don't fake emotion. I doubt if every actor is capable of pulling out every emotion but the good ones are, and I seriously doubt a respectable acting coach would encourage an actor to fake emotion. Help them get to a place where they could convey it convincingly, yes...but flat out fake it? I'd want my money back...:sarcasm:

Oh, gosh, I don't agree with that at all. That's why they call it "acting." Superman can't really fly, he just acts like he can.

drivingmissdaisy · Sep 13, 2013

Mathman said:
Oh, gosh, I don't agree with that at all. That's why they call it "acting." Superman can't really fly, he just acts like he can.

No, but Gracie can choose her roles.

Mrs. P · Sep 13, 2013

So I actually watched the interview that the NBC blogger linked to and realize that he a bunch of stuff out of from her direct quote:

"Because it's easy to sit there... well it's not easy, but... in your program and just (flashes perma smile)."
Then she says the quote "...The physical acting is to sort of have that emotion where it seems genuine.”

So basically she's totally acknowledging that the perma-big-smile is a problem, people! What I got out of that is that she wants to be able to learn to express a wide-range of emotions besides the perma-smile.

I really think we're being hard on Gracie based on a 15-second soundbite. She wasn't saying anything about "faking emotions" or even acting. Just that she wants to be able to express a greater range of emotions. Could she had said that better? Absolutely. But I think we're putting a lot more in that quote then actually is there.

R.D. · Sep 13, 2013

It's not what she said, but the idea behind what she is doing. Frankly, even though I don't like it, based on what her competitors are doing it certainly can't hurt. If it helps her milk more points from the judges, you know... whatever, go for it.

I mean, look at what Wagner did. Complete departure from her real strength and now the judges are pouring it on her like syrup. It obviously gets results if executed correctly...

Mrs. P · Sep 13, 2013

R.D. said:
It's not what she said, but the idea behind what she is doing. Frankly, even though I don't like it, based on what her competitors are doing it certainly can't hurt. If it helps her milk more points from the judges, you know... whatever, go for it.

I mean, look at what Wagner did. Complete departure from her real strength and now the judges are pouring it on her like syrup. It obviously gets results if executed correctly...

And the idea being? Doing mime to play Sleeping Beauty?

I guess I see this mime as being more program-neutral. If this helps her learn how to express herself better period, then more power to her.

FWIW, I found this 1974 newspaper article about how people use mime for emotionally-disturbed children:

According to (psycho-educator) Pierre Girouard, one of the great things about mime is that it need not involve external trappings. Its main demands are body control and concentration on emotions. Children reluctant to express personal emotions or lacking knowledge of a given word can call on past experiences.

Obviously Gracie is not an emotionally disturbed child, but I can see how better body control and concentration on emotions would help her...

ucrgirl · Sep 13, 2013

Just watched the day one recap posted on TSL. Dave and Jenny referred to Carroll working with Gracie on numerous occasions. At first, I thought they were joking or stating their wishes, BUT one time they said "when Gracie goes to Frank next week". Don't know if they are right, but in my mind they have staked a bit of their credibility on her alleged coaching change.

wordsworthgirl · Sep 13, 2013

Did anyone see Gracie tonight in the Intl Challenge competition (streaming live on Ice Network)? She was NOT impressive. Fell on the double axel and had a wonky landing on the triple lutz. I also thought the program was a bit manic. Looks like Marina Zoueva is choreographing for her. Worried abt Gracie's season given this very shaky start.

R.D. · Sep 13, 2013

wordsworthgirl said:
Did anyone see Gracie tonight in the Intl Challenge competition (streaming live on Ice Network)? She was NOT impressive. Fell on the double axel and had a wonky landing on the triple lutz. I also thought the program was a bit manic. Looks like Marina Zoueva is choreographing for her. Worried abt Gracie's season given this very shaky start.

I saw it. Wasn't impressed with the program at all, but it IS still early, let's remember that.

Just watched the day one recap posted on TSL. Dave and Jenny referred to Carroll working with Gracie on numerous occasions. At first, I thought they were joking or stating their wishes, BUT one time they said "when Gracie goes to Frank next week". Don't know if they are right, but in my mind they have staked a bit of their credibility on her alleged coaching change.

Given their obvious inside connections, I take it they must know something ...in other words, they must be privy to information that's not available to the fans at large. But I definitely don't appreciate them being so cryptic about it. Either state it outright or don't mention it at all until it's official.

State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!

aftertherain

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!

drivingmissdaisy

drivingmissdaisy

R.D.

GGoldberg

Match Penalty

Icey

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!

mskater93

Jammers

Mathman

drivingmissdaisy

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

R.D.

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

ucrgirl

wordsworthgirl

R.D.

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