State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season | Page 11 | Golden Skate

State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season

venlac

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
I would think that's far more reflective of certain issues regarding judging rather than the quality of Gold's skating.

Gracie is a talented girl but she is most certainly a recipient of favorable/boosted scoring when it comes to the judges. That's how it's always been so I can't be mad at her for it...but I definitely don't agree with it nor do I feel that just b/c the judges score her higher that means she's fixed her problem areas.

agree. i think simply.. just because of strong federation boosting her as a young new star, with belive potential that she has.. Also Omsond does. but we used to this kind of situation... nothing new
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Rewatched Pocahontas recently, and found this piece

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQr9OzKIO7c

One of our girls could skate to it. There are two crescendos, one is toward the end of Just Around the River Bend, the other is at the end where she ran to the top of the cliff to see him off. I'm thinking 2A-3T, and 3Lutz-combo.

It's really special, and if you choreograph it right, it could be magic.

The guy does a great job with this medley. The whole time, I was thinking Agnes could do this. Maybe even Gao.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Exactly.

Gracie is a talented girl but she is most certainly a recipient of favorable/boosted scoring when it comes to the judges. That's how it's always been so I can't be mad at her for it...but I definitely don't agree with it nor do I feel that just b/c the judges score her higher that means she's fixed her problem areas.

I wouldn't have expected her to fix her problem areas overnight. The judges are awarding high scores for Gracie because of her great speed. They did the same for Kostner early in her career, even when she didn't skate particularly well.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I wouldn't have expected her to fix her problem areas overnight. The judges are awarding high scores for Gracie because of her great speed. They did the same for Kostner early in her career, even when she didn't skate particularly well.

I don't find Gracie's inflation as egregious as Carolina's was a few years ago, because Gracie still gets mediocre marks when she doesn't skate well. But you're right in that they both skate fast and that seems to be rewarded. If Gracie works on the right things over the summer I think she has an outside chance at a medal, but all this talk of working on triple axels and new 3/3's troubles me. She needs NO changes to her jump content; she just needs to work on her second mark.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
Rewatched Pocahontas recently, and found this piece

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQr9OzKIO7c

One of our girls could skate to it. There are two crescendos, one is toward the end of Just Around the River Bend, the other is at the end where she ran to the top of the cliff to see him off. I'm thinking 2A-3T, and 3Lutz-combo.

It's really special, and if you choreograph it right, it could be magic.

The guy does a great job with this medley. The whole time, I was thinking Agnes could do this. Maybe even Gao.

When I think Pocahontas I think of this masterpiece:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbLdsAh7_cc

This was a great exhibition program for Michelle and Lori choreographed it beautifully. I love the edit of the music and how they utilized so many of the nuances...and I love the ending! Forward scratch spin and then stopping on the dime like that...beautiful!

I find it to be one of her under-rated exhibitions but it really is lovely. Of course this version has vocals but an instrumental could be nice...
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I wouldn't have expected her to fix her problem areas overnight. The judges are awarding high scores for Gracie because of her great speed. They did the same for Kostner early in her career, even when she didn't skate particularly well.

I've seen her twice live. Her speed is above average. Not great speed, not even close. She is never the speed demon Carolina or Yuna were. She's not even as fast as these old broads now.

It's strange to see so many people suddenly trumpeting Gracie's speed as if it was something special.

They didn't do that for Kostner early in her career. She should have won World 2005 SP, but didn't. She should have come very close to Yuna in World 2007 SP, but didn't.
As a matter of fact, she didn't regularly crack 120 for LP until 2011.

The most contentious event was World 2008. Her TES was the highest of the ladies, and her PCS was the lowest of the main contenders. How is that generous?

They had no problem putting Carolina in 8th or 9th in PCS when she didn't skate well.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I don't find Gracie's inflation as egregious as Carolina's was a few years ago, because Gracie still gets mediocre marks when she doesn't skate well. But you're right in that they both skate fast and that seems to be rewarded.

Are you serious? Caro never got that kind of inflation Gracie is getting now. When she started out, she had so much trouble breaking 60 in the SP even when she was clean. Her PB in the LP prior to 2011 was 122 or something.

And to say both are fast is just ridiculous. One girl is the fastest girl ever, and one girl is above average. That's like saying both got a pair because they are girls.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Kostner finished 3rd at 2005 Worlds when she was 18 (she is 26 now), and that was only her third appearance at Worlds. She landed 6 triples (she doubled a 3lo).
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Are you serious? Caro never got that kind of inflation Gracie is getting now. When she started out, she had so much trouble breaking 60 in the SP even when she was clean. Her PB in the LP prior to 2011 was 122 or something.

What are you even talking about? Your statement is absolutely ridiculous. When did she regularly skate clean (no pops or doubled intended triples) and not clear 60? The ONE time I can think of is 2004 COR when she did a 3T-3T and a 3R, but that watered down content wasn't going to pull high scores at that time when Irina, Sasha, and many others were doing 3Z and 3F in the SP.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
It's hard to do an apples to apples compassion because Carolina's first two world appearances were judged under the 6.0 system.

Perhaps Gracie is not as fast as Carolina or Yuna, but her PCS scores is reflected as such. It's not like they're getting the sames scores! Carolina's PCS scores in the FS were more than 10 points ahead and Yuna's was 13 points. Don't see the outrage in that regard.

There is a case to perhaps say hers is too high relative to her peers (i.e. Adelina/Liza/Zijun/Kaetlyn).....
 

MoonlightSkater

On the Ice
Joined
May 17, 2011
Rewatched Pocahontas recently, and found this piece

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQr9OzKIO7c

One of our girls could skate to it. There are two crescendos, one is toward the end of Just Around the River Bend, the other is at the end where she ran to the top of the cliff to see him off. I'm thinking 2A-3T, and 3Lutz-combo.

It's really special, and if you choreograph it right, it could be magic.

The guy does a great job with this medley. The whole time, I was thinking Agnes could do this. Maybe even Gao.

I think Hannah Miller would do a great job with this. Say what you might about her smallish jumps, her interpretation is wonderful.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I think Hannah Miller would do a great job with this. Say what you might about her smallish jumps, her interpretation is wonderful.

I absolutely love Hannah's interpretation. Really came to admire her a lot more this year. I agree that Pocahontas could be a great pick for her....has she announced her programs yet?

Glad to see you posting, MoonlightSkater. :biggrin:
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
What are you even talking about? Your statement is absolutely ridiculous. When did she regularly skate clean (no pops or doubled intended triples) and not clear 60? The ONE time I can think of is 2004 COR when she did a 3T-3T and a 3R, but that watered down content wasn't going to pull high scores at that time when Irina, Sasha, and many others were doing 3Z and 3F in the SP.

You have problem understanding or something? When did I say she regularly skate clean?
In 2005, she was buried with great 3F3T, great 3R, great 2A.
In 2007, her PCS was like 27 in the SP for clean program with 3F3T, 3Lutz.

Irina, Sasha didn't have 3Z, didn't have 3x3 in the SP. So. What?

Your nonsensical statement is ridiculous.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I think Hannah Miller would do a great job with this. Say what you might about her smallish jumps, her interpretation is wonderful.

I think so, too. But I was hoping for one of the Sochi hopefuls to skate it. Hannah is not yet competitive enough to break top 3.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
I would expect Hannah to skate to something more "mature" even if this would be a good fit for her. Something about Disney scores turns off a lot fo skaters trying to be "serious"
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
^^That's fair. To be honest Gracie is behind the curve. Most of the ladies make the jump to seniors at 14 or 15...so to be 17 and debuting as a senior is somewhat odd. I know a lot of skaters debut at an older age but the majority of the phenoms come out of the gate younger than Gracie is.

That's one reason I was so annoyed with her this season. At 17 I was expecting a higher level of maturity and development from a performance standpoint. But I realize now it's going to take time for her to gain that experience and grow and mature.

The name of the game with Gracie is patience. Even though her skill level is high and she's older, I rank her with the rest of the 15 year olds and below a few of them when it comes to things like artistry, interpretation, etc.

I totally agree with this.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
In 2005, she was buried with great 3F3T, great 3R, great 2A.

When did this content not score above 60 ONCE, much less having "so much trouble breaking 60 in the SP even when she was clean"? She broke 60 in EVERY full season of COP, hardly "so much trouble... when she was clean". How can you make such bold statements without even a cursory look at Wikipedia?
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
As far as the Gracie and speed argument goes, I do think she's above average but not close to Carolina or Yu-Na who are the two fastest skaters of this era. I don't even think Gracie is as fast as Mirai was circa 2010...Mirai used to zoom! around the rink before her second growth spurt, to the point she almost ran into the boards several times. Gracie is fast but not exceedingly so. Personally, I find her powerful jumping to be her best attribute. Her jumps are big and effortless-looking. To me, her power is better than Carolina's and just as good as Yu-Na's.
 
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