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Thread: State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    How much perspective can a skater have if she's been in senior competition for just one season?
    Point taken - however, I was speaking in more generic terms.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    That's one reason I was so annoyed with her this season. At 17 I was expecting a higher level of maturity and development from a performance standpoint. But I realize now it's going to take time for her to gain that experience and grow and mature.
    What I like about how Gracie has progressed is that she never had to relearn her jump technique after a successful junior career. So many girls nail 7-triple programs at 13 with Lipinski-like technique and then grow up and are unable to do the jumps with their new bodies. She skates big and jumps big. Yes, that means she wasn't the youngest junior champion ever but she also came to the senior ranks with skills that transition well. From a presentation standpoint she skates like a first year senior but everything else she does is seasoned veteran.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    ^^That's fair. To be honest Gracie is behind the curve. Most of the ladies make the jump to seniors at 14 or 15...so to be 17 and debuting as a senior is somewhat odd. I know a lot of skaters debut at an older age but the majority of the phenoms come out of the gate younger than Gracie is.

    That's one reason I was so annoyed with her this season. At 17 I was expecting a higher level of maturity and development from a performance standpoint. But I realize now it's going to take time for her to gain that experience and grow and mature.

    The name of the game with Gracie is patience. Even though her skill level is high and she's older, I rank her with the rest of the 15 year olds and below a few of them when it comes to things like artistry, interpretation, etc.
    As a Gracie fan, I may be (okay, am) biased, but I think that her level of interpretation/artistry has made significant strides in the last season alone--to the point where she can realistically outscore the Russian girls, Li, and Osmond in PCS on a semi-regular basis. If she keeps pushing forward, she could be ahead of Wagner by 2014 Nationals...and wouldn't that be a competition for the ages. Gracie's PCS at WTT came within less than a point of Murakami's at Worlds, and Murakami has amazing maturity and poise.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    Gracie's PCS at WTT came within less than a point of Murakami's at Worlds, and Murakami has amazing maturity and poise.
    I would think that's far more reflective of certain issues regarding judging rather than the quality of Gold's skating.

  5. #200
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    i would think that's far more reflective of certain issues regarding judging rather than the quality of gold's skating.
    Exactly.

    Gracie is a talented girl but she is most certainly a recipient of favorable/boosted scoring when it comes to the judges. That's how it's always been so I can't be mad at her for it...but I definitely don't agree with it nor do I feel that just b/c the judges score her higher that means she's fixed her problem areas.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    I would think that's far more reflective of certain issues regarding judging rather than the quality of Gold's skating.
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Gracie is a talented girl but she is most certainly a recipient of favorable/boosted scoring when it comes to the judges. That's how it's always been so I can't be mad at her for it...but I definitely don't agree with it nor do I feel that just b/c the judges score her higher that means she's fixed her problem areas.
    agree. i think simply.. just because of strong federation boosting her as a young new star, with belive potential that she has.. Also Omsond does. but we used to this kind of situation... nothing new

  7. #202
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    Rewatched Pocahontas recently, and found this piece

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQr9OzKIO7c

    One of our girls could skate to it. There are two crescendos, one is toward the end of Just Around the River Bend, the other is at the end where she ran to the top of the cliff to see him off. I'm thinking 2A-3T, and 3Lutz-combo.

    It's really special, and if you choreograph it right, it could be magic.

    The guy does a great job with this medley. The whole time, I was thinking Agnes could do this. Maybe even Gao.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Exactly.

    Gracie is a talented girl but she is most certainly a recipient of favorable/boosted scoring when it comes to the judges. That's how it's always been so I can't be mad at her for it...but I definitely don't agree with it nor do I feel that just b/c the judges score her higher that means she's fixed her problem areas.
    I wouldn't have expected her to fix her problem areas overnight. The judges are awarding high scores for Gracie because of her great speed. They did the same for Kostner early in her career, even when she didn't skate particularly well.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I wouldn't have expected her to fix her problem areas overnight. The judges are awarding high scores for Gracie because of her great speed. They did the same for Kostner early in her career, even when she didn't skate particularly well.
    I don't find Gracie's inflation as egregious as Carolina's was a few years ago, because Gracie still gets mediocre marks when she doesn't skate well. But you're right in that they both skate fast and that seems to be rewarded. If Gracie works on the right things over the summer I think she has an outside chance at a medal, but all this talk of working on triple axels and new 3/3's troubles me. She needs NO changes to her jump content; she just needs to work on her second mark.

  10. #205
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    Any updates on Mirai?

  11. #206
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Rewatched Pocahontas recently, and found this piece

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQr9OzKIO7c

    One of our girls could skate to it. There are two crescendos, one is toward the end of Just Around the River Bend, the other is at the end where she ran to the top of the cliff to see him off. I'm thinking 2A-3T, and 3Lutz-combo.

    It's really special, and if you choreograph it right, it could be magic.

    The guy does a great job with this medley. The whole time, I was thinking Agnes could do this. Maybe even Gao.
    When I think Pocahontas I think of this masterpiece:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbLdsAh7_cc

    This was a great exhibition program for Michelle and Lori choreographed it beautifully. I love the edit of the music and how they utilized so many of the nuances...and I love the ending! Forward scratch spin and then stopping on the dime like that...beautiful!

    I find it to be one of her under-rated exhibitions but it really is lovely. Of course this version has vocals but an instrumental could be nice...

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I wouldn't have expected her to fix her problem areas overnight. The judges are awarding high scores for Gracie because of her great speed. They did the same for Kostner early in her career, even when she didn't skate particularly well.
    I've seen her twice live. Her speed is above average. Not great speed, not even close. She is never the speed demon Carolina or Yuna were. She's not even as fast as these old broads now.

    It's strange to see so many people suddenly trumpeting Gracie's speed as if it was something special.

    They didn't do that for Kostner early in her career. She should have won World 2005 SP, but didn't. She should have come very close to Yuna in World 2007 SP, but didn't.
    As a matter of fact, she didn't regularly crack 120 for LP until 2011.

    The most contentious event was World 2008. Her TES was the highest of the ladies, and her PCS was the lowest of the main contenders. How is that generous?

    They had no problem putting Carolina in 8th or 9th in PCS when she didn't skate well.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I don't find Gracie's inflation as egregious as Carolina's was a few years ago, because Gracie still gets mediocre marks when she doesn't skate well. But you're right in that they both skate fast and that seems to be rewarded.
    Are you serious? Caro never got that kind of inflation Gracie is getting now. When she started out, she had so much trouble breaking 60 in the SP even when she was clean. Her PB in the LP prior to 2011 was 122 or something.

    And to say both are fast is just ridiculous. One girl is the fastest girl ever, and one girl is above average. That's like saying both got a pair because they are girls.

  14. #209
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    Kostner finished 3rd at 2005 Worlds when she was 18 (she is 26 now), and that was only her third appearance at Worlds. She landed 6 triples (she doubled a 3lo).

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    I would think that's far more reflective of certain issues regarding judging rather than the quality of Gold's skating.
    Same can be said for certain others (cough, cough)

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