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Thread: State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Gold is way too strongly technically and the USFSA loves her and she will get very kind PCS. She would have to mess up both programs to finish below anyone not named Ashley.
    That's an interesting point. Gracie could have missed 2nd very easily this year after her SP. I wonder if everyone skated the same programs at Nationals next year where Gracie would be placed with her SP. Some believe that she was already over-scored in the SP this year.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Err... I think precision helps when you dismiss people's statements who disagree with you as "ridiculous". She didn't struggle at all to top 60 when she was clean; no trouble at all <> "so much trouble".

    Caro fell and still finished 8 points ahead of Gracie in the SP, and 5+ points ahead of her in the LP. I realize you don't like Gracie but as a fan it's frustrating to see her being attacked with completely wrong information. Gracie does not get anywhere near the marks that Carolina does at this point, nor should she. But she isn't grossly overscored either; her PCS may be a bit generous but it seems to be only when she delivers on her very difficult technical content.
    So you think a perfect Kostner (after 3 full seasons as senior) barely cracked 60 in the SP is massively overscored, or generously scored compare to Gracie in her first year as a senior?
    Ok. Now, that is ridiculous.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    So you think a perfect Kostner (after 3 full seasons as senior) barely cracked 60 in the SP is massively overscored, or generously scored compare to Gracie in her first year as a senior?
    Ok. Now, that is ridiculous.
    When did I ever use the term "massively overscored"?

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    When did I ever use the term "massively overscored"?
    You said "I don't find Gracie's inflation as egregious as Carolina's was a few years ago"
    inflation as egregious = massively overscored.
    In fact, it is stronger.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    You said "I don't find Gracie's inflation as egregious as Carolina's was a few years ago"
    inflation as egregious = massively overscored.
    In fact, it is stronger.
    Nope. I'm comparing her against someone who I think is a bit over scored. Regardless, as you suggest, I did think Carolina was "generously scored" when she was younger, particular on presentation. She took the entire rink to set up for the lutz and flip, no choreography into those jumps and just standing with her arms to her side, and still got among the highest CH and IN scores out there. She has improved in those areas drastically.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    As oppose to skating "life is beautiful" without knowing what the hell is the piece about?

    Skating to appropriate pieces for your age is always appropriate.

    Frankly, pretending to be a writhing you_know_what (hello, Sex and the City TWO because ONE wasn't ho enough) doesn't make the program any more "mature" than it is.

    I am just voicing the standard viewpoint that I hear from skaters from the age of about 12 on. At the age of 16 or 17, you definitely are trying to avoid skating to Disney because you want to appear to be a "mature" skater (and not a little girl) like skating to Carmen with "Girl Scout interpretation" at 16.

  7. #247
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    Decent Czisny can maybe beat out Gao or Zawadzki for the 3rd spot, but no way she's touching Wagner or Gold unless they totally tank and she has the SOHL and gets big inflation, at least that's the way I see it. I think Ashley and Gracie are pretty much locks for the Olympic team, I could see Alissa being gifted the 3rd spot if she skates semi-decently and Gao and/or Zawadzki make mistakes at Nationals and don't have particularly great fall seasons, but that's really the only way I see Alissa making the team, and quite honestly, I think it will be Gao or Zawadzki who makes it instead of Czisny (who if I'm being honest I'm not sure will even skate at Nationals, or may skate it as the first competition of her season, because I'm not sure she'll be totally healthy/jumping by the fall). We'll see but I tend to think the USFS's love affair with Czisny is over, at least to the point that making the team as the 1st or 2nd entrant is very unlikely.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    I am just voicing the standard viewpoint that I hear from skaters from the age of about 12 on. At the age of 16 or 17, you definitely are trying to avoid skating to Disney because you want to appear to be a "mature" skater (and not a little girl) like skating to Carmen with "Girl Scout interpretation" at 16.
    And at 12, they are the best judge of "maturity" At 17, they've lived through enough rough turbulences like Samantha Jones and hence, can interpret Sex and the City TWO! Because ONE was too juvenile. Only 11yo skates to Sex and the City ONE.
    Brilliant!

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Absolutely not. Gold is way too strongly technically and the USFSA loves her and she will get very kind PCS. She would have to mess up both programs to finish below anyone not named Ashley.
    So you think Ashley Cain can beat her convincingly then, that's interesting...

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I could see Alissa being gifted the 3rd spot if she skates semi-decently and Gao and/or Zawadzki make mistakes at Nationals and don't have particularly great fall seasons, but that's really the only way I see Alissa making the team, and quite honestly, I think it will be Gao or Zawadzki who makes it instead of Czisny (who if I'm being honest I'm not sure will even skate at Nationals, or may skate it as the first competition of her season, because I'm not sure she'll be totally healthy/jumping by the fall). We'll see but I tend to think the USFS's love affair with Czisny is over, at least to the point that making the team as the 1st or 2nd entrant is very unlikely.
    I agree with this, although I'd add that I think no matter what Gao or Agnes do in the fall it won't secure either the 3rd spot. If these two, Alissa and Mirai finish 3,4,5,6 the bronze medalist will go, no matter what the GP results are.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    As oppose to skating "life is beautiful" without knowing what the hell is the piece about?

    Skating to appropriate pieces for your age is always appropriate.

    Frankly, pretending to be a writhing you_know_what (hello, Sex and the City TWO because ONE wasn't ho enough) doesn't make the program any more "mature" than it is.
    I don't think that Gracie was so oblivious as to not know the story behind "Life is Beautiful." It's quite a well-known film, after all. As a teenager and a new senior, she simply didn't have the maturity to convey the bittersweet quality of the piece.

    And, seriously? It's unnecessary to call Agnes' virtues into question for shock value. Regardless of the music selections, she and Wilson have always kept the program "age-appropriate." She is by no means the first skater to use a provocative piece--every lady who has ever used Bacchanale or Carmen comes to mind immediately.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    I don't think that Gracie was so oblivious as to not know the story behind "Life is Beautiful." It's quite a well-known film, after all. As a teenager and a new senior, she simply didn't have the maturity to convey the bittersweet quality of the piece.

    And, seriously? It's unnecessary to call Agnes' virtues into question for shock value. Regardless of the music selections, she and Wilson have always kept the program "age-appropriate." She is by no means the first skater to use a provocative piece--every lady who has ever used Bacchanale or Carmen comes to mind immediately.

    Might be well known but I doubt she sat through that. It was a snooze fest, really. I tried watching it a few times and couldn't finish the damn thing.

    I'm not questioning Agnes's virtues just like I didn't question SJP's. I'm questioning the "maturity" factor in this piece of music over a Disney medley. How is this more mature?

    If you keep a Sex and the city program age appropriate, then why do it? Oxymoron thing for you to say, yes? Why not chop off David's penis and put flower on them so it is age appropriate for everyone

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Might be well known but I doubt she sat through that. It was a snooze fest, really. I tried watching it a few times and couldn't finish the damn thing.

    I'm not questioning Agnes's virtues just like I didn't question SJP's. I'm questioning the "maturity" factor in this piece of music over a Disney medley. How is this more mature?

    If you keep a Sex and the city program age appropriate, then why do it? Oxymoron thing for you to say, yes? Why not chop off David's penis and put flower on them so it is age appropriate for everyone
    I guess "age-appropriate" wasn't the correct term to use there. Rather, they kept the program classy and clean, which isn't difficult to do, even with Sex and the City. Agnes' outfit was the only part of that program that could be interpreted incorrectly.

    The terminology you're using--again, for shock value more than anything--always amazes me, and not in a complimentary way. If you're going to criticize a skater's music choices, you can do so without being vulgar.

  14. #254
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    [QUOTE=FlattFan;741206]Might be well known but I doubt she sat through that. It was a snooze fest, really. I tried watching it a few times and couldn't finish the damn thing. /QUOTE] This is actually one of Gold's favorite films.

    As for age appropriate, the only skaters older than around 12 I've ever seen skate to Disney (that wasn't an adult over the age of 25 using it for an interpretive program) was Michelle Kwan when she got the Disney $$ and Tara Lipinski using the "Anastasia" soundtrack. There's this big stigma attached to animated movie soundtracks (whether right or wrong), especially for Ladies (probably because more of them are younger than the men). It's like everyone thinks that you can't be perceived as a good (maybe it's more "mature" than good) artist if you are skating to a Disney soundtrack. That is why no matter how great the score is from one, you won't see one of the ladies at the top (either in the US or internationally) skate to it. Heck, some people claimed that "I Got Rhythm" was too "Juniorish" for Mao to skate to and that's a big step forward in "maturity" from Disney in terms of musical selection.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    This is actually one of Gold's favorite films.
    Yikes! In that case, I can't wait for her Sleeping Beauty version.

    As for age appropriate, the only skaters older than around 12 I've ever seen skate to Disney (that wasn't an adult over the age of 25 using it for an interpretive program) was Michelle Kwan when she got the Disney $$ and Tara Lipinski using the "Anastasia" soundtrack. There's this big stigma attached to animated movie soundtracks (whether right or wrong), especially for Ladies (probably because more of them are younger than the men).
    Do you think it is right or it is wrong? I know there's this silly stigma on Disney music, but they don't realize Disney commissioned a lot of big time composers to do it. I'd argue it's a lot more prestigious and mature than Sex and the City TWO.

    Heck, some people claimed that "I Got Rhythm" was too "Juniorish" for Mao to skate to and that's a big step forward in "maturity" from Disney in terms of musical selection.
    Mao didn't help the cause by adding a ponytail. The music is not juniorish. Her style is.
    Gershwin pieces are fun and flirty for young girls. Actually, all arias (even the super sad ones) are about young girls and young boys doing young love things. No arias written for old farts past the drinking age ... in other countries. If you want to be taken seriously, then skate with maturity. The music doesn't make your skating more mature. A young girl just can't skate with the maturity of Shizuka Arakawa in her prime age. No music choice can help her with that. Seem to be a big confusion there for a lot of young girls.

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