Well, Wagner and Gold definitely held their own at the LP last worlds in terms of projecting to the audience and getting people's attention. Ashley was nervous and tentative but even so the maturity and performance was there. And Gold could use some polish but she skates so big and she's exuberant enough that she definitely was exciting to watch. I've never seen Gao live so I can't guess how she would have looked among the field at worlds. But Ashley and Gracie did well and I'd be thrilled for them if they made the Olympic team. It's their spots to lose that's for sure. I'd love to see Gao as the third teammate. Or Mirai, if the Mirai we love comes back to us.
State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season
- Thread starter Reginald
- Start date
Well, Wagner and Gold definitely held their own at the LP last worlds in terms of projecting to the audience and getting people's attention. Ashley was nervous and tentative but even so the maturity and performance was there. And Gold could use some polish but she skates so big and she's exuberant enough that she definitely was exciting to watch. I've never seen Gao live so I can't guess how she would have looked among the field at worlds. But Ashley and Gracie did well and I'd be thrilled for them if they made the Olympic team. It's their spots to lose that's for sure. I'd love to see Gao as the third teammate. Or Mirai, if the Mirai we love comes back to us.
Christina needs to reintroduce the 3F-3T, as a way to try to stand out technically. Her jumps are nice, but they don't make a big impression. They just don't have the same kind of impact as Courtney's or Agnes' or Gracie's jumps. She also needs to work on her spins, as she is losing a lot of points there compared to the rest of the field (maybe she just lacks the flexibility to hit the same spin positions that the other girls do.)
She also needs to go in a different direction artistically. She doesn't have the fire to pull off the tango that she used for her free skate the past two seasons. She needs to select a softer piece of music to show off her more lyrical style of skating. She needs to work on her posture and carriage, too. Like Gracie, she is very stiff, and it doesn't make her very pleasant to watch as a performer.
She also needs to go in a different direction artistically. She doesn't have the fire to pull off the tango that she used for her free skate the past two seasons. She needs to select a softer piece of music to show off her more lyrical style of skating. She needs to work on her posture and carriage, too. Like Gracie, she is very stiff, and it doesn't make her very pleasant to watch as a performer.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2012
Gracie and Ashley both have SO much energy that they look like they could hit the ceiling if they tried.
I think that Christina would have ended up in either the second- or third-to-last group in the Worlds FS. In the 3rd-to-last group, she would probably have outshone everyone but Elizaveta. In the second-to-last group, she wouldn't have stood out at all among Gracie, Adelina, Zijun, and Akiko. Well, maybe not Akiko, given her disastrous FS.
In the last group ... well, I think we know what the verdict is there. Unless your name is Yuna, Carolina, Mao, or (sometimes) Ashley, good luck making a lasting impression.
Gracie skates big that's why despite being almost oblivious to the music sometimes she still gets decent PCS scores. Her speed and power help with her SS scores. Christina just doesn't have that explosive speed or the huge jumps that Gracie has.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
176 is close to 180 and Christina fell on a jump that was supposed to be in combination, didn't make up the combo elsewhere, and stumbled out of her 3-jump combo, so totally clean she likely would have broken 180, not 190 or likely not even quite 185, but totally clean she is in the low 180s range. Alissa at her best in her form from 2-3 years ago can be in the 190s sure, but she is so error prone and is coming off of two surgeries. Even in seniors I don't think Courtney can get to the 180s, her PCS won't be high enough. Agnes can score higher clean Nationally sure, but internationally her scores have never been that high so idk if she suddenly delivers if they will be a lot higher. I tend to think they could be because she's a very talented skater, but her PCS are consistently below the likes of Gold, Nagasu, and Gao right now so it's hard to know. The way Mirai has been skating recently, I don't think her score ceiling is higher than Christina honestly, it's probably about the same or a little lower, she really seemed to peak at 16.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
I do think Mirai's ceiling is higher than Christina's based mostly on the fact that Mirai can maximize levels on her other elements in addition to the jumps whereas I don't think Christina can max out everything. The thing with Mirai is she is capable of scoring much better than she does; it's her UR issues (of which she typically has two or three in a FS) that keep her from posting a higher score.
I also think Mirai needs to pick better music and get better choreography. Mirai's impact is felt much more when she skates to higher energy music. Her SP was a step in the right direction last season and I hope they continue along those lines for this year's programs as well...and that includes the FS.
Mirai doesn't seem to be able to pull off the slower music. Spartacus and her FS from last seasons were snoozers (Spartacus was crap IMO) so my suggestion would be to stick with something slightly more upbeat for the FS as well. Mirai's music usually dictates the way she skates. She's not able to bring the necessary energy to slower music so she needs music that caters to her abilities. That will motivate her to keep her energy up during the program as well as show a little more personality and spark in the performance. Also the energy brings more speed out of her skating which, in turn, leaves a better impression.
I'm not sure which music choice she should go with this season but I hope not to see anything close to her last two FSs.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
Well I agree about the choreography, that's part of the reason I am unsure about how high her scores can go. I wish she'd use someone other than Nichol, and skate to something either upbeat and fun or edgy, not these slow, classical, warhorse or overused pieces that do nothing for her. Her SP this past season was okay, but the last program I really, truly liked from her was the Witches of Eastwick program from the 10-11 season, the FS that season and all her other programs since then have just been meh. Free Mirai from Lori!
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
Actually, her programs from last season were choreographed by Susan Austin, not Lori.
I think she stopped using Lori b/c she was no longer with Frank and Lori is obviously Frank's choreographer of choice (and with good reason...for some skaters). Lori hasn't completely lost her touch (see Carolina and Mao for reference) but past those first few seasons her work for Mirai was very dullsville. I really enjoyed her Witches of Eastwick as well, especially her performance of it at nationals that year. Energy, speed, personality, fire...when she brings those things to the ice and lands the jumps she is impossible to ignore.They need to bring that kind of feel to her FS programs...
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2012
I have a lot of hope for Mirai's improvement. Her SP this season was, IMO, fantastic and perfectly suited to her style.
As you mentioned, kwanatic, Mirai is capable of receiving huge GOE on her spins (and PCS, for that matter). I think her Nationals results over the past two seasons have been enough of a wake-up call/kick in the pants to make her work extremely hard at fixing her technical issues.
As you mentioned, kwanatic, Mirai is capable of receiving huge GOE on her spins (and PCS, for that matter). I think her Nationals results over the past two seasons have been enough of a wake-up call/kick in the pants to make her work extremely hard at fixing her technical issues.
I agree Mirai does better with fast music. I don't think the problem is she doesn't work, or doesn't bring enough energy, but she thinks too much, doesn't focus. With fast music, she doesn't have time to think and skates loose and free with much better flow.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
I hope she's able to clean up some of her UR issues b/c that's one of the main things holding her back. Her spins are still some of the best in the US, she still has speed when she skates (when she's tentative she slows down, she needs to stop that), she's still very charming and engaging when she skates "in" her program.
All it will take is a few solid performances from Mirai to get people to turn their heads back in her direction. If she can rotate her jumps and skate with energy, like I said, she's impossible to ignore. When she skates with speed and energy her PCS go up and if she's able to skate cleanly they'll go up even higher.
I was encouraged by the progress I saw from her last season and my heart broke for her at nationals b/c you could tell how disappointed she was. I honestly feel that had she been healthy she would have performed much better. I was proud of her for fighting her way through the program and not giving up...
I hope she brings that fight again this season.
All it will take is a few solid performances from Mirai to get people to turn their heads back in her direction. If she can rotate her jumps and skate with energy, like I said, she's impossible to ignore. When she skates with speed and energy her PCS go up and if she's able to skate cleanly they'll go up even higher.
I was encouraged by the progress I saw from her last season and my heart broke for her at nationals b/c you could tell how disappointed she was. I honestly feel that had she been healthy she would have performed much better. I was proud of her for fighting her way through the program and not giving up...
I hope she brings that fight again this season.
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2013
I'm here for the return on Mirai, the US champion
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
I hope you are right on this regard. I also hope the team around her doesn't sugar coat it (Oh, that looked "great" when it's still UR/DG-worthy)
Mirai has been getting URs and DGs internationally as well. It may be that her basic technique is the cause of her underrotation problems. When she was small and undeveloped, she could score well. Once she grew taller and filled out, she was no longer fully rotating her jumps and her scores slipped. Mirai needs a very strong technical coach to help her find out HOW to fix the UR problem, and IMO, her current coach can't help her in that regard.
Mirai is only 20, and there IS still time for her to change her technique, but time is running out fast.
Mirai is only 20, and there IS still time for her to change her technique, but time is running out fast.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
I think the state of US ladies is good. Gold and Wagner could podium and the nessxt girl will be great. But we are probably going to have a fluke in third. Mirai has skated poorly the last few years. Alissa even worse. Then we have the podium hopefuls Zhang, Hicks, Zawadiak, Gao et al and the fading Flatt. it wil lbe interestging to se e who is left standing at nationals.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
True and Mirai's URs have been there since she was tiny and underdeveloped even. They weren't as noticeable when she was 14 and the callers weren't as strict, so she was able to win Nationals and silver at JWC, but the jumps still weren't all the way around even then. So obviously, there is something wrong with the technique if it's been an issue since she was 4'11" and about 75 lbs. I've noticed she hooks her landings, so like she lands on the toepick, and then the cheats are more apparent. The URs have become more obvious now that she's a grown women, but the issue appears to be deep-rooted and not something that could be fixed by increasing her speed or losing weight, in other words there is probably not a quick-fix solution, so if she wants to get the jumps better, she needs to rework the technique considerably, which could take awhile. I think she could do it but idk if there's enough time before the Olympics.
Gracie carries a lot of speed into her jumps and gets into her rotating position very quickly, I think that is why URs are so seldom an issue for her. Plus I think her build also gives her an advantage, she has a mesomorphic body type with lots of muscle, but her hips are so narrow that you would think her center of gravity is higher compared to most other females, which would make it easier for her to jump higher and have longer hang time on her jumps.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
Also looking at these photos https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...9.177354988948597&type=3&l=15e5efe1a0&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...9.177354988948597&type=3&l=15e5efe1a0&theater and video https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...9.177354988948597&type=3&l=15e5efe1a0&theater it looks like Christina has really improved her flexibility and extension in her spirals and transitions, and is also doing an I-spin now. If she can incorporate these things in her competitive programs and bring back the 3f-3t, I think she's looking really good to be a front runner for the 3rd Olympic spot. The improvement in her lines was very noticeable to me. Also, she looks so much stronger and more mature compared to a few years ago, the gawkiness is really mostly gone, people compare her to Kim but to me she is really becoming a lot like Arakawa in terms of her physique, elegance, and movement across the ice :swoon: so lovely.
Also did she switch to Edeas? It looks like her boots have silver heels in those Skate for Hope photos and I could have sworn she was wearing Risport's last season...
Also did she switch to Edeas? It looks like her boots have silver heels in those Skate for Hope photos and I could have sworn she was wearing Risport's last season...
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2012
I don't think Flatt is ever coming back to competitive skating. Back-to-back injuries have really taken a toll on her results and she knows that she couldn't compete with the current crop of American/international ladies. Rather than risking low placements at events (2012 SA), she's decided to focus solely on her studies at Stanford -- a very admirable choice, IMO.
Anyway, extrapolating from this season, it seems to me that Christina, Agnes, and Mirai are the obvious frontrunners for the 3rd spot. If Alissa can get back into decent shape in time, she'll be in the mix as well, ahead of every contender except Christina.
Also, regarding silverlake22's photos, Christina will need more flexibility on that I-spin -- hopefully she'll work on that in the off-season if she plans on using it in competition.
^ Of course, that is assuming that Wagner and Gold are shoo-ins for spots 1 and 2, which is no guarantee in itself either. Particularly for Gold, but if this year is any indication, Wagner is not invincible either.
Zawadzki and Gao are the other two in contention...I'd give Hicks and Nagasu slim, outside chances. Czisny will be the "Cohen 2010" of this cycle so to speak - plagued by recent injury and time off, she's a complete wildcard depending on her condition, but likely to crumble under pressure regardless.
Zawadzki and Gao are the other two in contention...I'd give Hicks and Nagasu slim, outside chances. Czisny will be the "Cohen 2010" of this cycle so to speak - plagued by recent injury and time off, she's a complete wildcard depending on her condition, but likely to crumble under pressure regardless.
