State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season | Page 39 | Golden Skate

State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season

Moment

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
I really like how beautifully Mariah moves her body. Her musicality is very impressive too. I'd say her "artistry" or whatever it's called is superior to that of a lot of senior level women.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
The only remarkable thing is her skating skill. Much better than the other young girls.

Do you like any of her programs?

I can't even watch the entire 4 minutes without getting distracted by something else.

I do think her presentation is much better than any of her peers right now. Adelina looks beautiful on the the ice, her lines and extension are lovely, and she has very nice edges and a smooth flow to her skating. I thought her Bolero SP was decent season before last but I really loved her SP from last season; I thought it was fantastic. I liked the "At Last" portion of her FS but I thought the rest of the music/program was garbage.:sarcasm:


Her problems do not just stop with her techniques. Packaging, strategies, programs, mental strength. If she is with the same people, she will stay exactly where she is now. If she runs away from TAT, her skating career in Russia will be done. It is grim for Adelina.

Agreed and, to me, all of those things need to be addressed. Elena Buianova is her coach; TAT is her choreographer. If she went to someone else for a program I don't think they'd chuck her out of Russia for it. I think strategy is key for Adelina right now. If they pull back on the difficulty, play it smart and maximize her points with a realistic jump layout, I honestly think she'd benefit from that in TES, PCS and reputation. But I agree: if everything remains constant, she won't go much farther than she is now and that will truly be sad b/c she's amazing.


I really would like for someone to challenge Gracie until her artistry improves because she is such a blah skater to me at the moment. The technical merit isn't enough...my interest in her programs just isn't there.

Can I say how much I like Mariah Bell?


What Mariah (as well as skaters like Karen, Polina and Elena R.) has is that crucial thing Gracie is missing. They have a much more natural flow when it comes to music, choreography, and the way they perform. Gracie is not a natural performer. She's a brilliant skater in terms of her skill and jumps, but from a musical/choreography standpoint...it's just not there. She can hear the music but she doesn't listen to it; she can execute the choreography, but she doesn't perform it. It's something she will have to work at a lot in order to improve it. I suppose I should reserve judgement until I see her on the GP but the video that I saw of her earlier this summer did not impress...

Hopefully it will get better as the years go by, but for skaters like Mariah it comes quite easily and naturally. To me, they are far ahead of Gracie when it comes to that area of their skating.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
What Mariah (as well as skaters like Karen, Polina and Elena R.) has is that crucial thing Gracie is missing. They have a much more natural flow when it comes to music, choreography, and the way they perform. Gracie is not a natural performer. She's a brilliant skater in terms of her skill and jumps, but from a musical/choreography standpoint...it's just not there. She can hear the music but she doesn't listen to it; she can execute the choreography, but she doesn't perform it. It's something she will have to work at a lot in order to improve it. I suppose I should reserve judgement until I see her on the GP but the video that I saw of her earlier this summer did not impress...

Hopefully it will get better as the years go by, but for skaters like Mariah it comes quite easily and naturally. To me, they are far ahead of Gracie when it comes to that area of their skating.

Gracie catches my eye too, however, despite her relative lack of artistry compared to someone like Mariah and Karen. She has the basic package going for her -- big jumps, nice lines, great ice coverage. And those are things that score well in PCS.

Also, I do feel Gracie has improved though maybe not as much/fast as we would like. Look at her SP from her JGP, her first international competition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D04eVuX_mbI

and compare it to WTT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjpNupeG3qE (haha,love the Japanese media totally going crazy over her name). There's a bit more refinement, a bit more nuance in the way she does her choreography.

Basically compare Gracie to Gracie and you can see that she's making progress.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
Gracie catches my eye too, however, despite her relative lack of artistry compared to someone like Mariah and Karen. She has the basic package going for her -- big jumps, nice lines, great ice coverage. And those are things that score well in PCS.

Also, I do feel Gracie has improved though maybe not as much/fast as we would like. Look at her SP from her JGP, her first international competition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D04eVuX_mbI

and compare it to WTT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjpNupeG3qE (haha,love the Japanese media totally going crazy over her name). There's a bit more refinement, a bit more nuance in the way she does her choreography.

Basically compare Gracie to Gracie and you can see that she's making progress.

The truth of the matter may be that Gracie is not cut out to be an expressive, graceful, or artistic skater. That may not be in the cards for her and that's fine as long as she's packaged correctly and right now she isn't. Don't stick her in a sparkly pink dress skating to Sleeping Beauty and then try to pass her off as "power witch" :sarcasm:. Give me a break...

Gracie should be packaged as powerful, not as an artist b/c she's not an artistic skater and doesn't look to have a propensity for artistry or expression. It's not natural to her. I think it's a lot harder to cultivate artistry than it is to refine/bring it out of someone who already has it and at 18 years old, it's obvious that Gracie does not have it. Everyone can't be an artist. What Gracie is is a powerhouse skater with speed and huge jumps. Embrace that persona...own it.

My favorite program from Irina Slutskaya was her Totentanz SP. Irina didn't have a graceful bone in her body but she had speed, power and jumps and that SP showcased all of that. I think if Gracie were given that kind of freedom and didn't have to concentrate on trying to be artistic and graceful and expressive, she'd probably enjoy herself and skate better.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Everyone can't be an artist. What Gracie is is a powerhouse skater with speed and huge jumps. Embrace that persona...own it.

This can't be said louder or written larger or repeated enough times to skate fans (and the skate community at large for that matter). NOT EVERYONE IS AN ARTIST.



NOT EVERYONE IS AN ARTIST.




Again: NOT EVERYONE IS AN ARTIST.



Understand it. Live it. Breathe it.

:cool:
 

RemyRose

YOLO
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Country
United-States
This can't be said louder or written larger or repeated enough times to skate fans (and the skate community at large for that matter). NOT EVERYONE IS AN ARTIST.



NOT EVERYONE IS AN ARTIST.




Again: NOT EVERYONE IS AN ARTIST.



Understand it. Live it. Breathe it.

:cool:

:laugh: And Amen to that!!!! I love power skaters!!!!
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
This can't be said louder or written larger or repeated enough times to skate fans (and the skate community at large for that matter). NOT EVERYONE IS AN ARTIST.
NOT EVERYONE IS AN ARTIST.
Again: NOT EVERYONE IS AN ARTIST.
Understand it. Live it. Breathe it.

:cool:

Your message should be for the Gold team, not the skating fans. Kwanatic is spot on in her assessment that Gracie keeps trying to be an artist and it isn't working. I think we all agree if she went out and skated to something powerful we could get into her programs more.
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
This can't be said louder or written larger or repeated enough times to skate fans (and the skate community at large for that matter). NOT EVERYONE IS AN ARTIST.



NOT EVERYONE IS AN ARTIST.




Again: NOT EVERYONE IS AN ARTIST.



Understand it. Live it. Breathe it.

:cool:

This should also be revised to those who think they are the only artist in the competition.

YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ARTISTIC SKATER OUT THERE.

Your message should be for the Gold team, not the skating fans. Kwanatic is spot on in her assessment that Gracie keeps trying to be an artist and it isn't working. I think we all agree if she went out and skated to something powerful we could get into her programs more.

Tbh, I only want Gracie to have some sort of expression on her face when she skates. I realize she's not an artistic skater, so I'm not expecting her to do a 180 or even a 90.
 

Selene

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
I saw this tweet from the Skating Lesson:

The Skating Lesson ‏@SkatingLesson 4h

We can't wait until Frank Carroll reworks Sleeping Beauty. Good 3Lz+3T, skated through 2A, 3 Loop, slow footwork loses interest #SLC2013

Why change coaches after the season has already started? If she wanted to switch to Carroll, why not do it early in the offseason? I don't understand the timing of this move.
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
I saw this tweet from the Skating Lesson:



Why change coaches after the season has already started? If she wanted to switch to Carroll, why not do it early in the offseason? I don't understand the timing of this move.

I wouldn't start speculating until (if) after an official announcement is made. If true, then maybe she had an Amodio moment.
 

LeCygne

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Why change coaches after the season has already started? If she wanted to switch to Carroll, why not do it early in the offseason? I don't understand the timing of this move.

I saw that tweet too and was really surprised. They had been saying they had big coaching change news for a 2013 World Team member, but couldn't reveal it just yet. If it is indeed true (and it honestly doesn't seem like a joke), very strange that they would let it slip on Twitter and not have taken it down yet. I think a more experienced, well-known coach would be good for Gracie, but not necessarily this season. It seems like she, Ouriashev, and Zueva had a pretty clear, well thought-out plan for the Olympic season and I can't see her suddenly abandoning all that, especially after her success last season. Not sure what to believe for the time being.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I saw that tweet too and was really surprised. They had been saying they had big coaching change news for a 2013 World Team member, but couldn't reveal it just yet. If it is indeed true (and it honestly doesn't seem like a joke), very strange that they would let it slip on Twitter and not have taken it down yet. I think a more experienced, well-known coach would be good for Gracie, but not necessarily this season. It seems like she, Ouriashev, and Zueva had a pretty clear, well thought-out plan for the Olympic season and I can't see her suddenly abandoning all that, especially after her success last season. Not sure what to believe for the time being.

These teaser tweets are getting old, IMO. :rolleye:

As I said in a different thread, they need to either shut up or go ahead and reveal it. Doing this carrot wrangling thing is not really professional.
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
These teaser tweets are getting old, IMO. :rolleye:

As I said in a different thread, they need to either shut up or go ahead and reveal it. Doing this carrot wrangling thing is not really professional.

You should send them a direct message about it. I don't know if they read forum posts.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
You should send them a direct message about it.

Maybe I will. To be honest, however, I don't know if I'm willing to put in the time to do so. They seem to have a way/format that they feel works for their purposes. Just because I don't agree with it doesn't really mean that much. I'm just a faceless person on a skating board, you know?

I'm just expressing my viewpoint. I'm not one to give free advice to strangers. Advice is cheap. Just saying how I would have approached it.

ETA: On the other hand, my policy is to always say things I can say to people's faces...so the case to do so via a direct message is somewhat appealing.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
If it is indeed true (and it honestly doesn't seem like a joke), very strange that they would let it slip on Twitter and not have taken it down yet.

If you think TSL's tweet was an accidental "slip," then I have a bridge to sell you ... :rofl:

They knew exactly what they were doing/saying, IMHO.
 

LeCygne

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
If you think TSL's tweet was an accidental "slip," then I have a bridge to sell you ... :rofl:

They knew exactly what they were doing/saying, IMHO.

Well, after their later tweets on the men's SP, yes, I hear the snark. If that's the case, they certainly do what they do well...

Interesting that Gracie isn't here with her coach... Scott Brown is accompanying her. Good 3Lz+3T

Interesting video.. TSL vs. USFSA? http://www.theskatinglesson.com/tsl-addresses-u-s-figure-skating/
 

Selene

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
I saw that tweet too and was really surprised. They had been saying they had big coaching change news for a 2013 World Team member, but couldn't reveal it just yet. If it is indeed true (and it honestly doesn't seem like a joke), very strange that they would let it slip on Twitter and not have taken it down yet. I think a more experienced, well-known coach would be good for Gracie, but not necessarily this season. It seems like she, Ouriashev, and Zueva had a pretty clear, well thought-out plan for the Olympic season and I can't see her suddenly abandoning all that, especially after her success last season. Not sure what to believe for the time being.

I don't think TSL "let it slip." They put that tweet out for a reason. I believe them because they seem to have a really good source who is close to Frank Carroll. The timing of this coaching change just seems odd to me. She and her former coaches had obviously formulated a plan for the season and had been working on that all summer. So, it seems odd to me me that she would decide to move across the country and change her whole training environment AFTER her season has already started.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
If she has made the switch to Frank, I wonder if the split from her other coach was amicable? I can't imagine it would be given the circumstances. Gracie is obviously an up-and-comer in the sport so ditching her old coach and hitching her wagon to Frank seems like, "Okay, I need to step up to the big league and you guys aren't cutting it." True of course, but it does seem like an odd move to make right before the season starts. When Mirai went to Frank it was b/c she was sinking...Gracie is obviously on the rise so the situations are different.

It will be interesting to see if this turns out to be true...
 
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