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Thread: State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season

  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Adelina is the exception IMO. She has the polish, maturity, presentation and performance that would allow her to rise to the top of this newer crop of ladies. Technique is what's been killing her the past two years; if her jumps weren't so unstable she could be a world medalist right now. But if all of the aforementioned ladies were given the same music, choreography and jump layout (and assuming everyone skated cleanly), Adelina would score the highest: her jumps are solid when she lands them, her spins are excellent, good speed, great flow and edging, lovely lines and control, she skates big enough to leave an impression, and she knows how to engage an audience and perform. None of the other ladies can do all of that right now...
    Except Adelina isn't capable of skating her current programs cleanly, because she keeps putting elements she's incapable of performing with any consistency in her layout. She can't rotate the 3Flutz-3Loop combo, so she's going to get automatic negative GOE there. She has such swingy technique on the axel and lands pitch forward on it, so she can't rotate the triple toe following the double axel. There's more negative GOE. She also insists on doing two flips in her free skate, and she is likely to pop or fall on one of them due to her swingy, poor technique on the entry of the jump, with her edge wobbling back and forth like Caroline Zhang's. So, she "plans" 7 triples, but isn't capable of rotating any more than 4 (5 at best) of them. She needs to realize her technical limitations and change her jump layout. She has a better chance of skating cleanly with Ashley Wagner-type technical content, and maybe the judges would reward her more in PCS for more consistency.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I'd add Karen Chen to that list as well. Assuming she gets past puberty in one piece, she's very likely to be a complete package skater.
    Karen Chen needs to fix her UR issues. It's not a good sign that she's already having such severe UR issues when she hasn't even hit puberty yet.

  2. #752
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    Adelina's program has everything you're looking for in a burlesque show. A few growls, a few puke-inducing moments, cheap choreography, awkward postures. Yup, she's a whole package, alright. One that is left in the rain for too long.

    She's more 6-10 type of skaters. Maybe get lucky one day and score a world medal, but I don't see her being chased or being the bronze favorite in any big event in the future, even after the Big Three hang up their skates.

  3. #753
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Adelina's program has everything you're looking for in a burlesque show. A few growls, a few puke-inducing moments, cheap choreography, awkward postures. Yup, she's a whole package, alright. One that is left in the rain for too long.

    She's more 6-10 type of skaters. Maybe get lucky one day and score a world medal, but I don't see her being chased or being the bronze favorite in any big event in the future, even after the Big Three hang up their skates.
    Oh FlattFan...

    She's a talented girl so I won't count her out just yet. Her issues are not irreparable but she does need help to fix them. Whether or not her team actually gets her that help will be a determining factor in where she'll end up post-Sochi.

    Selene, I agree with you. I think Adelina does go for quantity over quality. An easier jump layout may make it easier for her to have a clean performance and that would result in better scores all around. As for Karen, I'm not sure if her UR issues are chronic or if it was just nerves. The story may be told later on this week when she competes. If she runs into the same issues again then I might start to worry...

  4. #754
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    Adelina also has a 5/2 layout of jumps which is very rare. So if she can do all the difficulty she plans in the first half she wants to do it all right away and really ignores that you can go easier and make the easier things worth a little more if you put them in the bonus section. So she really is ignoring all possible ways to improve her consistency by going easier to chase that 7 triple program with two triple flips and a three jump combo starting out with a flip. It alternates which flip she messes up on. Sometimes it can be the solo flip sometimes it can be the flip starting out the three jump combo. It really varies! There are so many ways her skate could've been improved but tarasova has always ALWAYS had the plan that skaters must always keep going with what they plan until it clicks! Kulik, Asada, etc.

  5. #755
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    A local TV station in Salt Lake City aired an in-studio interview with Gracie Gold today.
    Has she already said elsewhere that she has started working with a "physical acting mime coach"? I think those are the words that she used today.
    (She did not say anything to hint that she will be changing to a new skating coach, although I doubt the interviewer had any inkling of such speculation. The point of the interview was to promote the SLC Classic, of course.)
    The video is approx. 3 min. long.
    http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top...70n2W8Ymg.cspx (Sep 11)

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Oh FlattFan...

    She's a talented girl so I won't count her out just yet. Her issues are not irreparable but she does need help to fix them. Whether or not her team actually gets her that help will be a determining factor in where she'll end up post-Sochi.
    The only remarkable thing is her skating skill. Much better than the other young girls.

    Do you like any of her programs?

    I can't even watch the entire 4 minutes without getting distracted by something else.

    Her problems do not just stop with her techniques. Packaging, strategies, programs, mental strength. If she is with the same people, she will stay exactly where she is now. If she runs away from TAT, her skating career in Russia will be done. It is grim for Adelina.

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    Okay let's slam the Russian girls. Done. Bored. Oh yeah what was this thread??? Sarcasm. The State of American ladies is looking good. Gold or Wagner are primed for a medal and the continuation of three ladies at Olympics and world's. Now the Russian ladies could have some things to say about that but no lady has show that much promise including consistency of jumps or pcs to challenge Gold or Wagner..

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Now the Russian ladies could have some things to say about that but no lady has show that much promise including consistency of jumps or pcs to challenge Gold or Wagner..
    Well Adelina can challenge on PCS, but honestly may not be a factor after this season unless she gets her act together on the jumps. However, I think Elena R has the artistry and the technical ability to beat Gracie once eligible. I really would like for someone to challenge Gracie until her artistry improves because she is such a blah skater to me at the moment. The technical merit isn't enough; great jumpers like Irina, Midori, and even Tara had far more musicality and charisma. I suppose she is marked correctly because her fast, big skating deserves a PCS boost but my interest in her programs just isn't there.

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I think Adelina does go for quantity over quality. An easier jump layout may make it easier for her to have a clean performance and that would result in better scores all around.
    I agree too, and she reminds me a bit of Mao attempting things that are very hit-or-miss. I don't think Adelina would be happy with 4th place and I believe that motivates her to do more difficulty than she should. For example, it is an awful idea for her to be training a 3Z-3R when there is zero chance of +GOE because of the inevitable mistakes. If she can fix her lutz perhaps she can do that alone with a 3T-3T in the SP but she really is trying too many things she isn't great at.

  10. #760
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    Can I say how much I like Mariah Bell?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp8JqOqpqgw

    I absolutely love this short program for her. Even with the errors, she made it compelling for me to watch her. And she did flamenco music quite well. I know she needs more technical difficulty, but regardless I appreciate what she brings to the table.

  11. #761
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    I really like how beautifully Mariah moves her body. Her musicality is very impressive too. I'd say her "artistry" or whatever it's called is superior to that of a lot of senior level women.

  12. #762
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    The only remarkable thing is her skating skill. Much better than the other young girls.

    Do you like any of her programs?

    I can't even watch the entire 4 minutes without getting distracted by something else.
    I do think her presentation is much better than any of her peers right now. Adelina looks beautiful on the the ice, her lines and extension are lovely, and she has very nice edges and a smooth flow to her skating. I thought her Bolero SP was decent season before last but I really loved her SP from last season; I thought it was fantastic. I liked the "At Last" portion of her FS but I thought the rest of the music/program was garbage.


    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Her problems do not just stop with her techniques. Packaging, strategies, programs, mental strength. If she is with the same people, she will stay exactly where she is now. If she runs away from TAT, her skating career in Russia will be done. It is grim for Adelina.
    Agreed and, to me, all of those things need to be addressed. Elena Buianova is her coach; TAT is her choreographer. If she went to someone else for a program I don't think they'd chuck her out of Russia for it. I think strategy is key for Adelina right now. If they pull back on the difficulty, play it smart and maximize her points with a realistic jump layout, I honestly think she'd benefit from that in TES, PCS and reputation. But I agree: if everything remains constant, she won't go much farther than she is now and that will truly be sad b/c she's amazing.


    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I really would like for someone to challenge Gracie until her artistry improves because she is such a blah skater to me at the moment. The technical merit isn't enough...my interest in her programs just isn't there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Can I say how much I like Mariah Bell?

    What Mariah (as well as skaters like Karen, Polina and Elena R.) has is that crucial thing Gracie is missing. They have a much more natural flow when it comes to music, choreography, and the way they perform. Gracie is not a natural performer. She's a brilliant skater in terms of her skill and jumps, but from a musical/choreography standpoint...it's just not there. She can hear the music but she doesn't listen to it; she can execute the choreography, but she doesn't perform it. It's something she will have to work at a lot in order to improve it. I suppose I should reserve judgement until I see her on the GP but the video that I saw of her earlier this summer did not impress...

    Hopefully it will get better as the years go by, but for skaters like Mariah it comes quite easily and naturally. To me, they are far ahead of Gracie when it comes to that area of their skating.

  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post

    What Mariah (as well as skaters like Karen, Polina and Elena R.) has is that crucial thing Gracie is missing. They have a much more natural flow when it comes to music, choreography, and the way they perform. Gracie is not a natural performer. She's a brilliant skater in terms of her skill and jumps, but from a musical/choreography standpoint...it's just not there. She can hear the music but she doesn't listen to it; she can execute the choreography, but she doesn't perform it. It's something she will have to work at a lot in order to improve it. I suppose I should reserve judgement until I see her on the GP but the video that I saw of her earlier this summer did not impress...

    Hopefully it will get better as the years go by, but for skaters like Mariah it comes quite easily and naturally. To me, they are far ahead of Gracie when it comes to that area of their skating.
    Gracie catches my eye too, however, despite her relative lack of artistry compared to someone like Mariah and Karen. She has the basic package going for her -- big jumps, nice lines, great ice coverage. And those are things that score well in PCS.

    Also, I do feel Gracie has improved though maybe not as much/fast as we would like. Look at her SP from her JGP, her first international competition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D04eVuX_mbI

    and compare it to WTT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjpNupeG3qE (haha,love the Japanese media totally going crazy over her name). There's a bit more refinement, a bit more nuance in the way she does her choreography.

    Basically compare Gracie to Gracie and you can see that she's making progress.

  14. #764
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Gracie catches my eye too, however, despite her relative lack of artistry compared to someone like Mariah and Karen. She has the basic package going for her -- big jumps, nice lines, great ice coverage. And those are things that score well in PCS.

    Also, I do feel Gracie has improved though maybe not as much/fast as we would like. Look at her SP from her JGP, her first international competition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D04eVuX_mbI

    and compare it to WTT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjpNupeG3qE (haha,love the Japanese media totally going crazy over her name). There's a bit more refinement, a bit more nuance in the way she does her choreography.

    Basically compare Gracie to Gracie and you can see that she's making progress.
    The truth of the matter may be that Gracie is not cut out to be an expressive, graceful, or artistic skater. That may not be in the cards for her and that's fine as long as she's packaged correctly and right now she isn't. Don't stick her in a sparkly pink dress skating to Sleeping Beauty and then try to pass her off as "power witch" . Give me a break...

    Gracie should be packaged as powerful, not as an artist b/c she's not an artistic skater and doesn't look to have a propensity for artistry or expression. It's not natural to her. I think it's a lot harder to cultivate artistry than it is to refine/bring it out of someone who already has it and at 18 years old, it's obvious that Gracie does not have it. Everyone can't be an artist. What Gracie is is a powerhouse skater with speed and huge jumps. Embrace that persona...own it.

    My favorite program from Irina Slutskaya was her Totentanz SP. Irina didn't have a graceful bone in her body but she had speed, power and jumps and that SP showcased all of that. I think if Gracie were given that kind of freedom and didn't have to concentrate on trying to be artistic and graceful and expressive, she'd probably enjoy herself and skate better.

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    Any news as to what the STATE lol of Ashley's 3/3 is?

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