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Thread: State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season

  1. #781
    Gambatte, Max Aaron/"No letting off the gas pedal" golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    ... I believe them because they seem to have a really good source who is close to Frank Carroll. ...
    Would not surprise me if TSL's source is none other than Frank Carroll himself (with the understanding that he is telling them stuff off the record before it is officially announced).

    ETA, correction:
    What I really meant to say: "... telling them stuff not for attribution" (but on the record).
    Thx to LeCygne for the comment below on what I originally wrote in error.

  2. #782
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    If she has made the switch to Frank, I wonder if the split from her other coach was amicable? I can't imagine it would be given the circumstances. Gracie is obviously an up-and-comer in the sport so ditching her old coach and hitching her wagon to Frank seems like, "Okay, I need to step up to the big league and you guys aren't cutting it." True of course, but it does seem like an odd move to make right before the season starts. When Mirai went to Frank it was b/c she was sinking...Gracie is obviously on the rise so the situations are different.

    It will be interesting to see if this turns out to be true...
    maybe she wants to improve other aspects of her skating
    and certain coaches have bigger influence than others
    Gold has what it takes to be the next big thing since Kwan, very American appeal and good for endorsements

    also otp, Karen Chen score 64.46 in her SP
    US ladies will be dominant again after 2014 with Gold, Chen and Edmunds
    with many B list skaters like Zawadzki, Miller, Hicks, Gao, Nagasu ? etc.
    a welcome change of the guards to old skaters like Czisny and Wagner

  3. #783
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    If you are going to change coaches especially before the Olympic season you don't do it right before the season starts. Not sure what Gracie is thinking. If she is with Frank now it's an upgrade sure but it should have happened months ago.

  4. #784
    skating philosopher
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    Why don't we all wait until the announcement is made before we all jump on Gracie?

    Also Gracie is hardly the first person to change coaches at the beginning of the season. There are skaters who opt to change coaches in the MIDDLE of the season.

    Lest I remind you that Michelle Kwan and Frank Carroll (speak of the devil!) ended their coaching relationship days before Skate America in 2001? I don't want to rehash that whole argument (no coach vs. coach thing), however I do want to point out that elite skaters make decisions they feel is best for them and at what we perceive are "inconvenient" or "inopportune" times.

    Also, there could be a whole slew of reasons this may happening beyond "Alex O you're not good enough" and "I need Frank C for political clout/rework all my programs!" that may be playing into the timing of this.

  5. #785
    Custom Title LeCygne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    I don't think TSL "let it slip." They put that tweet out for a reason. I believe them because they seem to have a really good source who is close to Frank Carroll.
    Yeah I guess I didn't really mean "let it slip" because it does sound quite intentional. But if that's the case that they really heard something off the record, how unprofessional and disrespectful to put it out. Don't complain about being denied media credentials if you're not going to be a proper media source.

  6. #786
    Gambatte, Max Aaron/"No letting off the gas pedal" golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeCygne View Post
    Yeah I guess I didn't really mean "let it slip" because it does sound quite intentional. But if that's the case that they really heard something off the record, how unprofessional and disrespectful to put it out. Don't complain about being denied media credentials if you're not going to be a proper media source.
    Apologies. I am going to go back and edit my post, because I did not mean quite what I said either.
    I should have referred to the possibility of Carroll himself being TSL's source and of telling them stuff not for attribution (but on the record).
    Mea culpa.

    (I am neither condemning nor defending TSL, but LeCygne's post made me realize that the original words in my post implied something worse than I intended.)

  7. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Apologies. I am going to go back and edit my post, because I did not mean quite what I said either.
    I should have referred to the possibility of Carroll himself being TSL's source and of telling them stuff not for attribution (but on the record).
    Mea culpa.

    (I am neither condemning or defending TSL, but LeCygne's post made me realize that the original words in my post implied something worse than I intended.)
    Yes, that would make sense.

    But I agree with LeCygne that they are really not making a great case to get media credentials in the future. If Frank Carroll is really their source (and we don't know that), then it's really not professional to throw his name around like that especially when it was a totally snarky tweet.

    Also "off-the-record' and "not-for-attribution" is a pretty delicate thing. It's a tough game to play-- source development/confidentiality is an art form.

    Again, I still stand behind my premise that you need to say straight up what you know and the source and if you can't say the source, state you have one, but cannot be revealed b/c of XYZ. They have a really nice website/blog, why couldn't they say something there instead of these snarky tweets?

  8. #788
    Gambatte, Max Aaron/"No letting off the gas pedal" golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    .... They have a really nice website/blog, why couldn't they say something there instead of these snarky tweets?
    Maybe because TSL aspires to be the Matt Drudge of figure skating coverage??
    I'm not saying that figure skating needs/wants a Matt Drudge (I myself do not think so) -- but maybe they would consider it a badge of honor??

  9. #789
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    Gracie has added a mime coach recently

    http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/201...igure-skating/

  10. #790
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Maybe because TSL aspires to be the Matt Drudge of figure skating coverage??
    I'm not saying that figure skating needs/wants a Matt Drudge (I myself do not think so) -- but maybe they would consider it a badge of honor??
    Well if that's the case, then what's it too them if they don't get media credentials?

    If they can get the views/audience by being more TMZ than New York Times (something they owned up to some time ago), then it really makes this whole whining about not getting credentials kind of silly. It's what RD said, they seem to not be able to decide what exactly they want to be...

    And by the way, I do believe you can be a legitimate curator/news source and still have a voice (i.e. Drudge; Jim Romenesko (http://jimromenesko.com/; popular site for media types); Upworthy (http://www.upworthy.com).

  11. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Gracie has added a mime coach recently

    http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/201...igure-skating/
    She says: “It’s sort of a new thing that has been added to my training. … The physical acting is to sort of have that emotion where it seems genuine.”

    I read this and cringe. If you see Michelle, Irina, Tara, Midori, Sarah, Mao or Yuna performing their best, the joy they express is very real. Hiring a coach to teach you to "fake" genuine emotion is the wrong approach IMO.

    "American Timothy Goebel, the 2002 Olympic bronze medalist, worked with a mime, too."

    'Nuff said.

  12. #792
    I'm out. aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Well if that's the case, then what's it too them if they don't get media credentials?

    If they can get the views/audience by being more TMZ than New York Times (something they owned up to some time ago), then it really makes this whole whining about not getting credentials kind of silly. It's what RD said, they seem to not be able to decide what exactly they want to be...
    I think they were more "whiny" because they were denied on grounds for "space reasons." Funny, because in photographs, there seems to be a lot of space unless the USFSA was going to hire a bunch of elephant or whale journalists (I mean that literally, not figuratively). And TSL have stated that it hasn't only happened to them.

    Well, that "outtake" from their Scott Hamilton interview didn't help either. (When you're first staring out, perhaps you shouldn't bark or bite at the hand that could potentially help you--but Mr. Hamilton did give a weird answer.)

    Methinks (and this is strictly my opinion) that USFSA wants to tightly control what the media (IN, NBC) puts out.

    Well, that seems to be working well.

  13. #793
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    she says: “...physical acting is to sort of have that emotion where it seems genuine.”

    Hiring a coach to teach you to "fake" genuine emotion...
    THIS. OMG...Seriously? In a nutshell, that statement is exactly what's wrong with Gracie's skating.

  14. #794
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    Yeah...
    Wanting something to "seem" genuine isn't the right approach. But there's a very blurry line in the world of expressing emotions that I think she is only starting to navigate. She's 18. That's still very young on the emotional development front. Some people just naturally understand how to tell a story and be honest out there and others have to take more time to find it. For Michelle, it was natural. For someone like Carolina I think it took a long time for her to find her style and voice, but now she's found it and it is absolutely captivating. That's not even something I would have said for her four years ago.

    Sometimes you have to just throw a lot of stuff at the wall and see what sticks. Mime could be valuable for her. Wait and see. With acting, there is not one "true" or "right" technique to get you there. Sometimes you just have to find what speaks to you.

    If Gracie has switched to Frank I'm very curious to see what the outcome will be. I do remember when TSL mentioned someone was dropping out of SLC they also said that Mark Mitchell was in the process of orchestrating a coaching change for one of the 2013 World Team Members. That tweet came out not too long after Champs Camp so I think it's very easily to see a connection there. Also, since they do seem to have a good source at the Toyota Center, and we can probably assume whoever tipped them about Evan also tipped them about the coach switch, I won't be too surprised if Frank is involved in this switch.

  15. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by samson View Post
    Yeah...
    Wanting something to "seem" genuine isn't the right approach. But there's a very blurry line in the world of expressing emotions that I think she is only starting to navigate. She's 18. That's still very young on the emotional development front. Some people just naturally understand how to tell a story and be honest out there and others have to take more time to find it. For Michelle, it was natural. For someone like Carolina I think it took a long time for her to find her style and voice, but now she's found it and it is absolutely captivating. That's not even something I would have said for her four years ago.
    The thing is, if they are giving her the right material that she can relate to she doesn't have to fake anything. Tonya Harding had some great programs for her style, but I don't think any amount of mime coaching would have let her successfully interpret Lyra Angelica. It's almost as if because she has such a pretty face everyone expects Gracie to be an ice princess, and it's not her.

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