State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season

mskater93 · Nov 13, 2013

Or to look back at 2010 and say, if "I hadn't totally tanked my LP at Worlds, what would have happened"? Basically, one less mistake in the LP would have put her on the podium. Sad, really, to see that level of talent go to waste for various reasons....

tulosai · Nov 13, 2013

mskater93 said:
Or to look back at 2010 and say, if "I hadn't totally tanked my LP at Worlds, what would have happened"? Basically, one less mistake in the LP would have put her on the podium. Sad, really, to see that level of talent go to waste for various reasons....

Yes, of current skaters Nagasu is probably the one who makes me both most depressed and happiest. It is depressing because her talent and potential were SO VERY obvious, but thinking back on her career also does make me happy- she had some amazing performances that I will never ever forget and that I frequently return to and watch and smile. Unfortunately, While I'll never say never, it looks increasingly likely that her best days are well behind her.

jaylee · Nov 13, 2013

mskater93 said:
Or to look back at 2010 and say, if "I hadn't totally tanked my LP at Worlds, what would have happened"? Basically, one less mistake in the LP would have put her on the podium. Sad, really, to see that level of talent go to waste for various reasons....

And it would have helped secure 3 spots for the US in 2011. And since Mirai was 3rd at 2011 Nationals, she would've gone to Worlds in 2011. Since Rachael was injured in 2011, Mirai (3rd at 2011 4CCs) and Alissa may have been able to secure 3 spots for 2012 Worlds.

And everything would have been different had Mirai just rotated the double axel that she fell on at 2010 Worlds FS.

ice coverage · Nov 13, 2013

mskater93 said:
Or to look back at 2010 and say, if "I hadn't totally tanked my LP at Worlds, what would have happened"? Basically, one less mistake in the LP would have put her on the podium. Sad, really, to see that level of talent go to waste for various reasons....

jaylee said:
And it would have helped secure 3 spots for the US in 2011. And since Mirai was 3rd at 2011 Nationals, she would've gone to Worlds in 2011. Since Rachael was injured in 2011, Mirai (3rd at 2011 4CCs) and Alissa may have been able to secure 3 spots for 2012 Worlds.

And everything would have been different had Mirai just rotated the double axel that she fell on at 2010 Worlds FS.

Sorry, I am not familiar with the history here. But am having trouble reconciling mskater's comments:confused2:, esp. in light of what jaylee added:

How can it be that Nagasu "tanked" her FS at 2010 Worlds ... and yet one fewer mistake would have gotten her on the podium?
And rotating one jump (her double axel) would have made everything different? :think:

mskater's definition of "tank" must be different than mine.

CarneAsada · Nov 13, 2013

golden411 said:
Sorry, I am not familiar with the history here. But am having trouble reconciling mskater's comments:confused2:, esp. in light of what jaylee added:

How can it be that Nagasu "tanked" her FS at 2010 Worlds ... and yet one fewer mistake would have gotten her on the podium?
And rotating one jump (her double axel) would have made everything different? :think:

mskater's definition of "tank" must be different than mine.

Nagasu tanked her FS by making mistakes on both her Lutzes and falling on her 2A. She was first after the SP and could have won had she repeated her Olympic FS (well, gotten at least 2nd). The only reason she was so close to bronze after that FS was because the standard of everyone else but Asada (who had a mistake-free FS with 1 downgrade) and Kim (who landed both her Lutzes and rotated her Salchow despite falling) was so low. Everyone else was either terrible or mediocre. Miki had bombed herself nearly out of contention after the SP. Kostner was not propped up (or you could say lowballed; ironic that such a thing would happen in her home country) and in the end Laura Lepisto won the bronze with a bunch of doubles. Cynthia Phaneuf did something, I don't remember what, but it must have been OK as she finished 5th.

I had to look back at the protocols to refresh my memory. I don't know what's more hilarious (yet depressing at the same time): that Miki was one < sign away from the bronze (downgrading that 2Lo was just mean) or that Lepisto didn't land a single triple after her first 3 jumps (2 Toes and a Lutz).

tulosai · Nov 13, 2013

golden411 said:
Sorry, I am not familiar with the history here. But am having trouble reconciling mskater's comments:confused2:, esp. in light of what jaylee added:

How can it be that Nagasu "tanked" her FS at 2010 Worlds ... and yet one fewer mistake would have gotten her on the podium?
And rotating one jump (her double axel) would have made everything different? :think:

mskater's definition of "tank" must be different than mine.

No she tanked. She had an ENORMOUS lead after the short and a lot of other people tanked too. Her LP was bad, cringe worthy really. I couldn't even watch.

jaylee · Nov 13, 2013

golden411 said:
Sorry, I am not familiar with the history here. But am having trouble reconciling mskater's comments:confused2:, esp. in light of what jaylee added:

How can it be that Nagasu "tanked" her FS at 2010 Worlds ... and yet one fewer mistake would have gotten her on the podium?
And rotating one jump (her double axel) would have made everything different? :think:

mskater's definition of "tank" must be different than mine.

Mirai had a solid SP at 2010 Worlds, and scored very high there with a score of about 70. She did bomb the FS, however, so many ladies were a mess in the FS (or, conversely, someone who did well in the FS, such as Miki Ando, had a poor SP), that yes, had she just rotated and not fallen on the double axel in the FS, that would have been enough to move into 3rd overall. It was a situation unique to that competition. Mirai, in 7th place overall, was only 3 points away from 3rd place finisher Laura Lepisto.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2010/CAT002RS.HTM

tulosai · Nov 13, 2013

Here are the protocols: http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2010/wc10_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

You will see she was in 11th in the LP, and only landed three 'clean' triples. 3 jumps were downgraded and one got a wrong edge call when that was taken more seriously. She only attained level 2 on her spiral sequence (dumb, she'd been getting level 4 all season and only didn't attain it because she was freaking out and didn't hold positions long enough). She also noticeably deflated about 1/3 of the way through the program and looked miserable the rest of the time, which did hurt her PCS I don't care what anyone says.

CarneAsada · Nov 13, 2013

HTML:

tulosai said:
Here are the protocols: http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2010/wc10_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

You will see she was in 11th in the LP, and only landed three 'clean' triples. 3 jumps were downgraded and one got a wrong edge call when that was taken more seriously. She only attained level 2 on her spiral sequence (dumb, she'd been getting level 4 all season and only didn't attain it because she was freaking out and didn't hold positions long enough). She also noticeably deflated about 1/3 of the way through the program and looked miserable the rest of the time, which did hurt her PCS I don't care what anyone says.

The edge call was only an attention mark. That didn't require final GOE to be negative. The 'e' or wrong edge was a mandatory -3 with the final GOE being negative. That would be for really bad flutzers. The main problem with that Lutz was her landing.

Jammers · Nov 13, 2013

I knew Mirai was toast when i saw how petrified she looked as she stood by the boards with Frank before she skated. Mirai never skated well being in front and Gracie seems to be no better at the moment.

ice coverage · Nov 13, 2013

tulosai said:
No she tanked. She had an ENORMOUS lead after the short and a lot of other people tanked too. Her LP was bad, cringe worthy really. I couldn't even watch.

jaylee said:
Mirai had a solid SP at 2010 Worlds, and scored very high there with a score of about 70. She did bomb the FS, however, so many ladies were a mess in the FS (or, conversely, someone who did well in the FS, such as Miki Ando, had a poor SP), that yes, had she just rotated and not fallen on the double axel in the FS, that would have been enough to move into 3rd overall. It was a situation unique to that competition. Mirai, in 7th place overall, was only 3 points away from 3rd place finisher Laura Lepisto.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2010/CAT002RS.HTM

Thanks

to everyone (you too, CarneAsada) for all their explanations, including these.

And my apologies to mskater -- your use of "tank" now makes sense to me. I did not know that others had tanked in the FS to an even greater extent than Nagasu.

Was the unique situation of the ladies at 2010 Worlds chalked up to the phenomenon of Olympic hangover for many of them? (I did remember that Nagasu had led after the SP, so she would not be a good example, however.)

jaylee · Nov 13, 2013

golden411 said:
Thanks to everyone (you too, CarneAsada) for all their explanations, including these.

And my apologies to mskater -- your use of "tank" now makes sense to me. I did not know that others had tanked in the FS to an even greater extent than Nagasu.

Was the unique situation of the ladies at 2010 Worlds chalked up to the phenomenon of Olympic hangover for many of them? (I did remember that Nagasu had led after the SP, so she would not be a good example, however.)

Yes, there definitely was an Olympic hangover for many. Nagasu is kind of an odd example. Note that she really wanted to go for the 3Lz/3T in the SP at the Olympics, but after a slightly weak landing on the 3Lz led her to just go for a 2T. So by the time of Worlds, Mirai kept saying she really wanted to do that 3Lz/3T. She went for it, and though it was DG, she seemed to be energized from it and gave a great performance.

However, Mirai seemed pretty unprepared to be the leader after the short, and whether it was nerves/pressure and/or a lack of training after the Olympics, her LP was loaded with issues.

Conversely, the skaters who had relatively disappointing performances at the Olympics did better at Worlds--such as Carolina Kostner, Cynthia Phaneuf, and Laura Lepisto (who had missed her 3/3 in the SP at the Olympics, but like Mirai, really went for it in the SP at Worlds, which ultimately enabled her to hang on to the bronze after a mistake-ridden FS).

Jammers · Nov 13, 2013

golden411 said:
Thanks to everyone (you too, CarneAsada) for all their explanations, including these.

And my apologies to mskater -- your use of "tank" now makes sense to me. I did not know that others had tanked in the FS to an even greater extent than Nagasu.

Was the unique situation of the ladies at 2010 Worlds chalked up to the phenomenon of Olympic hangover for many of them? (I did remember that Nagasu had led after the SP, so she would not be a good example, however.)

Kim made some bizarre mistakes and probably shouldn't have even competed as it was obvious she was burned out and a lot of the other skaters looked mentally exhausted also. Mirai on the other hand had been peaking since Nationals had nothing to lose and had a great chance to make a name for herself and win or at least make the podium.

change of edge · Nov 13, 2013

It's clear from all this discussion about Worlds 2010 and Mirai that Mirai still has a lot of fans who wish the best for her. It's just heartbreaking to watch her fall further and further from the top these days, especially since her career could have been so drastically different had she just rotated that double axel in Torino.

skateluvr · Nov 13, 2013

Mirai was the lights out delight of Vancouver-so wonderful was she-my fave skater from the games. She is sill lovely, just not the same skater.

ManyCairns · Nov 14, 2013

Returning to Mirai with Carroll -- I dunno, I'm not sure her results with him were all that great/that he was a great coach for her anyway. Now, I'm not saying it's not tragic re: her lost potential if she really wanted to stay with him and felt he was the right coach for her -- but from outward appearances I don't think she had her best competitive skates with Frank anyway. ?:think:?

flying camel · Nov 14, 2013

I think she should go back to Frank. She and Gracie could really motivate each other.

CarneAsada · Nov 14, 2013

rallycairn said:
Returning to Mirai with Carroll -- I dunno, I'm not sure her results with him were all that great/that he was a great coach for her anyway. Now, I'm not saying it's not tragic re: her lost potential if she really wanted to stay with him and felt he was the right coach for her -- but from outward appearances I don't think she had her best competitive skates with Frank anyway. ?:think:?

Vancouver? Worlds 2010 SP?

Frank claimed after Rachael's awful Worlds skated with an injury that Nagasu was landing all kinds of crazy jumps in practice (triple Lutz-triple Loop and something else), saying "she was ready to go." Too bad we never got to see it.

AlexaD · Nov 15, 2013

It is disheartening to see all that potential never get fully realized with Mirai. I am hoping Gracie can get it together, too. She is another one that has me a bit worried. She has to get her nerves under control. Ashley's not my favorite personality wise, but my respect for her has gone way up seeing how she attacks her programs these past few seasons. I wish Mirai and Gracie could go out with that same attack. Especially Mirai, she has nothing to lose now. She's not the favorite anymore and wouldn't it be great if she used that as motivation to go out and prove to everyone that she is still capable!

ManyCairns · Nov 15, 2013

CarneAsada said:
Vancouver? Worlds 2010 SP?

Frank claimed after Rachael's awful Worlds skated with an injury that Nagasu was landing all kinds of crazy jumps in practice (triple Lutz-triple Loop and something else), saying "she was ready to go." Too bad we never got to see it.

True, I'd forgotten she was indeed with Carroll by then, though it was her first season with him, right, having moved to him after the 2009 season.

State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season

mskater93

tulosai

jaylee

ice coverage

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CarneAsada

tulosai

jaylee

tulosai

CarneAsada

Jammers

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jaylee

Jammers

change of edge

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ManyCairns

flying camel

CarneAsada

AlexaD

ManyCairns

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