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Thread: State of American Ladies: 2013-14 Season

  1. #796
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    The thing is, if they are giving her the right material that she can relate to she doesn't have to fake anything. Tonya Harding had some great programs for her style, but I don't think any amount of mime coaching would have let her successfully interpret Lyra Angelica. It's almost as if because she has such a pretty face everyone expects Gracie to be an ice princess, and it's not her.
    Exactly. This is what I posted over at FSU:

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    IMO that was a very poor choice of words. Maybe she should have said she's working on her expression. You can fake expression but you can't fake genuine emotion b/c it comes from within. If you're trying to make something seem genuine, it's already fake.

    BTW, bad actors fake emotion (the poster felt making the emotion seem genuine meant she was talking about acting); great actors find a way to make the emotion real and bring it out in their performance. Skaters who show genuine emotion aren't acting when they skate. They're feeling the music and feeling what they're doing. The emotion they feel is real and that's why it's genuine.

    Sorry but that hit a nerve for me. Gracie is not an emotional/artistic/graceful skater; she's a powerhouse with lots of speed and huge jumps. I wish her team would stop trying to make her into something she's not and just embrace who she is as a skater.

  2. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    I think they were more "whiny" because they were denied on grounds for "space reasons." Funny, because in photographs, there seems to be a lot of space unless the USFSA was going to hire a bunch of elephant or whale journalists (I mean that literally, not figuratively). And TSL have stated that it hasn't only happened to them.

    Well, that "outtake" from their Scott Hamilton interview didn't help either. (When you're first staring out, perhaps you shouldn't bark or bite at the hand that could potentially help you--but Mr. Hamilton did give a weird answer.)

    Methinks (and this is strictly my opinion) that USFSA wants to tightly control what the media (IN, NBC) puts out.

    Well, that seems to be working well.
    USFSA is hardly the only sports organization that wants to tightly control their message. As I said before, TSL has a lot more power in scooping USFSA than whining about the stupid reason they denied credentials. IMO, they were better off the reveal the Gracie coaching change (if they felt it was true). That would have been a bigger FU to USFSA than some video whining about USFSA's media credential policies.

    Good journalists don't get derailed by a lack of access. How do you think we're getting those amazing stories about Syria or North Korea? Certainly, it's not because those journalists got "official credentials" from Assad or Kim Jong-un.

  3. #798
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Well if that's the case, then what's it too them if they don't get media credentials?

    If they can get the views/audience by being more TMZ than New York Times (something they owned up to some time ago), then it really makes this whole whining about not getting credentials kind of silly. It's what RD said, they seem to not be able to decide what exactly they want to be...

    And by the way, I do believe you can be a legitimate curator/news source and still have a voice (i.e. Drudge; Jim Romenesko (http://jimromenesko.com/; popular site for media types); Upworthy (http://www.upworthy.com).
    I too think that TSL's whining in public about denial of credentials was unprofessional (ironically so, when they are trying to insist that they are professionals).
    And I agree about Romenesko.
    The reason I compared TSL to Drudge is that he is capable of driving/manipulating the news cycle among mainstream journalists, but AFAIK is not necessarily respected by them. Or at least not openly respected. (No question that at the same time that many mainstream journalists feel superior to him, a lot of them hypocritically are glued to his site to jump on story ideas that they find there. Yikes, do I sound like Palin? Not my intention at all. )

    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    Methinks (and this is strictly my opinion) that USFSA wants to tightly control what the media (IN, NBC) puts out.
    Exactly. But in wanting to control its message, USFS is no worse and no better than any corporation, governmental agency, not-for-profit organization, politician, celebrity, etc., etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Hiring a coach to teach you to "fake" genuine emotion is the wrong approach IMO.
    My theory is that Gracie Gold unwittingly goes overboard -- both on ice and off ice -- in applying the discipline and self-control that generally are important to an elite athlete. I hope that the point of the mime coach is to encourage her to share her authentic emotion on the outside instead of keeping it bottled up inside her. I would not call it fakery.

    The off-ice equivalent of what I mean:
    In the interviews I have seen, GG always seems to aim to please and to say the right things, but she seems to limit her range of facial expressions and body language. One look is an attentive and neutral face; practically the only other one is a smile [which is preferable to a frown, of course ] of a fixed size. She also keeps the tone of her voice almost perfectly consistent. I find myself wishing that she would relax and let her natural personality flow more freely.
    Example from the local TV interview that was the original source for NBC's item about the mime coach:
    The anchorman asked a question that likened the SLC Classic to the Daytona 500. The quick-witted GG calmly replied (I'm paraphrasing), " If I knew something about other activities, I would say, 'Yes.' " It was a savvy answer to a question that might have thrown someone else (such as me) whose knowledge of auto racing is basically nil. But someone else might also have instinctively shrugged her shoulders and/or made a mock grimace as a lighthearted way of showing self-deprecation, whereas GG did not permit herself to do so. She did not allow herself to chuckle either, and the even tone of her voice belied the charming humor of her words.

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    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    The off-ice equivalent of what I mean:
    My theory is that Gracie Gold unwittingly goes overboard -- both on ice and off ice -- in applying the discipline and self-control that generally are important to an elite athlete. I hope that the point of the mime coach is to encourage her to share her authentic emotion on the outside instead of keeping it bottled up inside her. I would not call it fakery.

    In the interviews I have seen, GG always seems to aim to please and to say the right things, but she seems to limit her range of facial expressions and body language. One look is an attentive and neutral face; practically the only other one is a smile [which is preferable to a frown, of course ] of a fixed size. She also keeps the tone of her voice almost perfectly consistent. I find myself wishing that she would relax and let her natural personality flow more freely.
    Example from the local TV interview that was the original source for NBC's item about the mime coach:
    The anchorman asked a question that likened the SLC Classic to the Daytona 500. The quick-witted GG calmly replied (I'm paraphrasing), " If I knew something about other activities, I would say, 'Yes.' " It was a savvy answer to a question that might have thrown someone else (such as me) whose knowledge of auto racing is basically nil. But someone else might also have instinctively shrugged her shoulders and/or made a mock grimace as a lighthearted way of showing self-deprecation, whereas GG did not permit herself to do so. She did not allow herself to chuckle either, and the even tone of her voice belied the charming humor of her words.
    I agree. I think Gracie probably didn't phrase it eloquently. But I don't feel like she's trying to fake something, but as golden411 said, a way to to provoke the emotion that she keeps deep inside her. It's not easy to outwardly express what you're genuinely feeling.

    But on the other hand, there's a reason there are phrases like "fake it till you make it." Maybe through the act of mime, she can learn to truly express herself outwardly in the process. The more that she practices letting go and expressing herself, perhaps she will do it for real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I agree. I think Gracie probably didn't phrase it eloquently. But I don't feel like she's trying to fake something, but as golden411 said, a way to to provoke the emotion that she keeps deep inside her. It's not easy to outwardly express what you're genuinely feeling.

    But on the other hand, there's a reason there are phrases like "fake it till you make it." Maybe through the act of mime, she can learn to truly express herself outwardly in the process. The more that she practices letting go and expressing herself, perhaps she will do it for real.
    I agree that Gracie might not have phrased it right, but I still think it's a packaging problem. Gracie is 18, young in the grand scheme of life but not that young in ladies' figure skating. She is who she is, and at this point I'd love to see her make the best of what that is and not try to be something she isn't.

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    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I agree that Gracie might not have phrased it right, but I still think it's a packaging problem. Gracie is 18, young in the grand scheme of life but not that young in ladies' figure skating. She is who she is, and at this point I'd love to see her make the best of what that is and not try to be something she isn't.
    But I don't see how trying mime is being something you're not, though. We assume that it's easy for Gracie just to say "hey I'm a power skater, I'm going to express myself that way now," but as golden411 said, she is having trouble expressing anything.

    Expression of one's self doesn't come naturally. I think mime is not just about the "act' but also the ability to look at oneself. I hope Gracie gets something good out of it.

  7. #802
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I agree that Gracie might not have phrased it right, but I still think it's a packaging problem. Gracie is 18, young in the grand scheme of life but not that young in ladies' figure skating. She is who she is, and at this point I'd love to see her make the best of what that is and not try to be something she isn't.
    I agree. Going for the emotional deep pieces like "Life is Beautiful" or even the semi-princessy programs like "Sleeping Beauty" just don't make sense given Gracie's skill set. She's not graceful, she's not an expressive or emotionally moving skater...she's speed and energy...power. I'd like to see some music and programs that highlight those qualities. Instead they package her in a way leaves her looking like a wannabe artistic skater. Drop the pretense and just go for what you know and do well. I'd be much happier watching her do that than suffering through her attempts at making her emotions look genuine...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I agree. Going for the emotional deep pieces like "Life is Beautiful" or even the semi-princessy programs like "Sleeping Beauty" just don't make sense given Gracie's skill set. She's not graceful, she's not an expressive or emotionally moving skater...she's speed and energy...power. I'd like to see some music and programs that highlight those qualities. Instead they package her in a way leaves her looking like a wannabe artistic skater. Drop the pretense and just go for what you know and do well. I'd be much happier watching her do that than suffering through her attempts at making her emotions look genuine...
    Basically, just because you look like Miss America doesn't mean you have to act like Miss America. You can look like Miss America and throw it down like Xena.

  9. #804
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    Basically, just because you look like Miss America doesn't mean you have to act like Miss America. You can look like Miss America and throw it down like Xena.
    LOL! H*ll yeah!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    Basically, just because you look like Miss America doesn't mean you have to act like Miss America. You can look like Miss America and throw it down like Xena.
    Exactly. She is more of a Batman/Wild Thing type skater (Harding's 90-91 LP music choices).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    But I don't see how trying mime is being something you're not, though.
    It's not the miming as much as the miming to be Sleeping Beauty that I have an issue with

  12. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    She says: “It’s sort of a new thing that has been added to my training. … The physical acting is to sort of have that emotion where it seems genuine.”

    I read this and cringe. If you see Michelle, Irina, Tara, Midori, Sarah, Mao or Yuna performing their best, the joy they express is very real. Hiring a coach to teach you to "fake" genuine emotion is the wrong approach IMO.

    "American Timothy Goebel, the 2002 Olympic bronze medalist, worked with a mime, too."

    'Nuff said.
    Well there you go. The pressure to be this so-called "complete skater" claims yet ANOTHER victim.

    (And can we ditch that stupid term once and for all...the "complete" or "well-rounded" skater?)

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    Whether Gracie spoke "cleverly" about it or not, the use of Acting and Mime coaches is smart, helpful and frankly obvious and should be very common place.

    For those top athletes who are NOT working periodically with someone to help polish this aspect of their performance, they are simply NOT utilizing all the available and in my opinion obvious tools that are out there.

    Perhaps some athletes (unique and rare) have natural abilities, but like working with a ballet coach for arms, Mime for expression seems just BASIC to me for the elite.

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    Actors fake emotions all the time and many have coaches on the set to help them do that. Every actor is not a method actor.

  15. #810
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Actors fake emotions all the time and many have coaches on the set to help them do that. Every actor is not a method actor.
    That's why I said great actors don't fake emotion. I doubt if every actor is capable of pulling out every emotion but the good ones are, and I seriously doubt a respectable acting coach would encourage an actor to fake emotion. Help them get to a place where they could convey it convincingly, yes...but flat out fake it? I'd want my money back...

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