Top 20 skaters of all time per discipline | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Top 20 skaters of all time per discipline

Big Deal

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
My subjective list, watching figure skating since the late 60's.

Pairs:
1.Gordeeva-Grinkov (ethernal beauty and unison)
2.Protopopovs (perfection)
3.Mishkutionok-Dmitriev (passion)
4.Shen-Zhao (tricks AND emotions)
5.Berezhnaia-Sikharulidze (lines , beauty, femininity and masculinity at its best)
6.Rodnina-Zaitsev (set the new era, brought the sport further)
7.Valova-Vasiliev (unorthodox)


Ice dance:
1.Torvil-Dean (a touch of God, talent and perfection)
2.Klimova-Ponomarenko (purest technique and quality)
3.Pakhomova-Gorshkov (passion, put the sport on the map)
4.Virtue-Moir (talent, creativity,emotion and technique)
5.Moiseeva-Minenkov (ahead of their time, innovators)
6.Anissina-Peizerat (lyra, excitement, a man in leading role)
7.Denkova-Staviski (virtuoso)
8.Davis-White (virtuoso)
9.Dushesnay-Duchesnay (innovation, fearlesness)

Ladies:
1.Yu-Na Kim (in any system either 6,0 or COP)
2.Kristie Yamaguchi (lightness, elegance, longevity)
3.Janet Lynn (set the standard of the present days, the reason to change the rules- short program-)
4.Denise Bielmann (far ahead her time, longevity, the strongest influence until the present days, fittness)
5.Michelle Kwan (lyra, beauty, quiet inner beauty shines)
6.Chen Lu (excitement, real reserved asian beauty and refine)
7.Midori Ito (virtuoso)
8.Yuka Sato (pure natural beauty and longevity)
9.Katarina Witt (longevity, physical beauty, competitiveness)

Men:
1.John Curry (the reason this sport was created)
2.Alexei Yagudin (emotion, passion, technique with a touch of art)
3.Toller Cranston (innivation, introduced the real choreography in men's skating)
4.Stephan Lambiel (breathtaking talent, art and beauty, perfect actor)
5.Plushenko (best jump technique but arrogance)
6.Brian Boitano (perfectionism)
7.Daisuke Takahashi (virtuoso, technique and personality)
8.Patrick Chan (the best blade ever used in sport)
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Yes, putting Sonja Henie (3 Olympic titles, 10 world titles, best skater of the world for over a decade, the first female "domination" ever) behind Slutskaya (no Olympic title, 2 world titles, just "one" of Kwan's rivals, definitely not that kind of extraordinary skater that Henie was, for her time) is a bit :unsure:

Slutskaya was not just one of Kwan`s rivals, she was by far her biggest one. Who else even comes close. Only Tara but she lasted only 15 months at the top. Slutskaya has won 6 Worlds medals, 4 Grand Prix finals (and 9 overall medals there), a record 7 European titles, competed at 3 Olympics and medalling in 2 of them, countless number of international wins. I rate her so high due to her longevity, amazing array of achievements in a tough era, and that she might overall be the best technical skater in history considering all technical elements (jumps, spins, footwork, speed, edges).

Henjie competed at a time the competition in womens skating was dire to put it mildly, when the technical demands were non existent, when politics was in another stratosphere to what modern skating fans can even imagine. Many of her wins were hugely controversial, her first World title over Herma Szabo which she only won since 3 of the 5 judges were Norwegian, as the 2 non Norwegian voted for Szabo. This upset Szabo so much she retired on the spot, feeling the deck was stacked against her, and created a new rule that only 1 judge per country was allowed. At the 1928 Worlds it was thought she was outskated by Maribel Vinson Owen but she was still given the win. Ceclia Colledge had clearly surpassed her in the mid 30s but the heavy politics of the day kept Henjie on top. Her father twice chased a judge who did not place her first down the street with a broom. That alone makes it hard to take much of her success that seriously, along with the time she competed in. I actually was far more generous to her than I wanted to be. I respected her record by putting her that high but from all I have heard and even footage I have seen Szabo and Colledge were the best skaters of the 20s and 30s and better than Henjie.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
No Patrick Chan? :laugh: *is utterly shocked*

What are your criteria? Some of these skaters never won a Worlds or Olympics.

Many people wouldnt have Chan as an all time great skater. Nothing to be shocked by.

My criteria is a combination of factors. Achievements are obviously important, but those who contributed something to the sport in a big way that transcend their medal counts, those who make more of an overall impact, those who are just flat out considered higher caliber skaters by most observers, as well as longevity, consistency, the strength of the eras they skated in, can all be considered.

The only skaters I included who did not win a major title are Janet Lynn and Toller Cranston, yet both are revered as amongst the best of all time because of the excellence of their free skating, and most of all what they contributed to the sport artistically. In the event you are unaware of this until now, it wouldnt surprise me, as you often seem to be out of touch with reality.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I think kristi yamaguchi is better than Midori Ito, Irina Slutskaya..

Despite Kristi winning more World and Olympic titles, Ito is generally regarded as the best skater of their era. Ito is still today regarded as the best jumper in womens skating history. She pushed womens jumping and technical skating to a whole new level by her presence. Kristi is not close to the best ever in any category of the sport, and mostly quietly did her thing and won titles. Still a great skater and champion, but not of Ito`s impact and greatness IMO.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Only someone uninformed of the history of womens skating would dispute Lynn is atleast a top 5 skater of all time. What she had she was magical and unlike any other skater in history. She almost single handedly was behind the eventual removal of compulsory figures too, for better or worse.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Many people wouldnt have Chan as an all time great skater. Nothing to be shocked by.

My criteria is a combination of factors. Achievements are obviously important, but those who contributed something to the sport in a big way that transcend their medal counts, those who make more of an overall impact, those who are just flat out considered higher caliber skaters by most observers, as well as longevity, consistency, the strength of the eras they skated in, can all be considered.

The only skaters I included who did not win a major title are Janet Lynn and Toller Cranston, yet both are revered as amongst the best of all time because of the excellence of their free skating, and most of all what they contributed to the sport artistically. In the event you are unaware of this until now, it wouldnt surprise me, as you often seem to be out of touch with reality.

LOL, I meant I would be utterly shocked if you actually admitted that Chan should be in the top 20 -- which he should in my opinion, because he has the best actual skating skills/basics/edges/technique of most of the men on that list. At his best, he produces some of the best performances of all time (like 2011 Worlds), and he has the world records for the highest SP, the highest FS, and the highest total score. He also elevated the overall level of competition by incorporating quads after 2010 and forcing all the other men to attempt quads to keep up with him - the same way Yu Na spurred on a higher level of competition. I'm fairly sure the vast majority of people ( would have him in their top 20 (save for Chan bashers who will hate him regardless) -- even if they wanted to exclude him just because they don't like his attitude or his inconsistency, there's no denying how superior his overall skating is. With his lack of consistency, he's arguably not worthy of the top 10, but certainly in the top 20... and your excluding him entirely because of a personal hatred and your obliviousness to him being one of the best blade workers out there, seems a bit... out of touch with reality. :sarcasm:

And I never said Janet Lynn and Toller Cranston weren't amongst the best of all time... but I consider personal achievement to be considered a huge part of being the best of all time. Although Cranston and Lynn contributed greatly in terms of artistry, and had lovely spins, excellent skating skills and ease across the ice, however they never reached the top of the podium in major events, attributed not only to poor figures but also SP/FS segment errors that cost them. They're still arguably the two best skaters to never win a World or Olympic title, but neither belongs in the top 3 because of that. I'd certainly have Kim/Ito/Witt/Kwan ahead of Lynn in my list... but Lynn would certainly be in the top 10 with her setting a higher standard in women's skating. (Also, it's inaccurate to suggest she was singlehandedly behind the removal of compulsory figures. She paved the way for a more free skate-centric competition, and was arguably almost single-handedly behind the addition of the short program, to mitigate the value of compulsory figures -- but compulsory figures would be around more than 15 years after she competed. If anyone, it was Ito who nailed the coffin in compulsory figures.)
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Ladies (based on free skating; not figures):

Michelle Kwan
Janet Lynn
Yu Na Kim
Midori Ito
Peggy Fleming


Men (these are all very close--it almost seems unfair to rank):

Kurt Browning
Alexi Yagudin
Dick Button
John Curry
Brian Boitano
Daisuke Takahashi

ETA: OMG-I forgot my favorite men's skater--Daisuke Takahashi! I really want to put him higher but need to wait until his career is over.
 

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
I would have Patrick in my personal Top 20 (although not that high, to be honest), but you are giving him a little too much credit...

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
At his best, he produces some of the best performances of all time (like 2011 Worlds), and he has the world records for the highest SP, the highest FS, and the highest total score.

Which means absolutly nothing. What exactly does it mean for the Chan Yagudin comparison that Chan received the highest (arguably inflated) scores in a system that Yagudin didnt skate under?

He also elevated the overall level of competition by incorporating quads after 2010 and forcing all the other men to attempt quads to keep up with him - the same way Yu Na spurred on a higher level of competition.

Really? I don't think all of those guys are just doing quads because Chan started to do them too. Look at his main competitors: Takahashi did quads, long, long before Chan did. He even tried them after his injury and with a bolt in his knee. Even at the Olympics when he could have played it safe. Fernandez was doing the 4T too before Chan started training them. And Hanyu? He's a quad-maniac, thanKs to his love for Plush. You can argue that Chan plays a part in teh return of the 4T - but the main reason was raising it's base value, and then there would have been enough talented jumpers to go for it if Chan does so or not. Let alone the japanese men would have to have the upper hand in the battle against each other (Kozuka was doing quads too before Chan did).

With his lack of consistency, he's arguably not worthy of the top 10, but certainly in the top 20...

Oh, not really. Takahashi is an inconsistent skater too, but I don't think that keeps people from adding him to their lists. Or think of Lambiel. But for Chan inconsistent isn't even the right word - it's more that he's consistently making mistakes. If I call someone one of the greatest of all time I'd at least want to be able to find some clean performances of them without having to search for hours. And yes, being able to skate clean is a huge part in the greatest of all time for quite a few people, me included.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Here's what I'd say: it's really difficult to compare today's skaters to Grafstrom/Henjie/Schafer/etc. so most of my list is post-70s (Dick Button probably being the only exception, given his contributions today).

Ladies:

1. Yu Na Kim
2. Michelle Kwan
3. Midori Ito
4. Katarina Witt
5. Peggy Fleming
6. Dorothy Hamill
7. Janet Lynn
8. Mao Asada
9. Kristi Yamaguchi
10. Irina Slutskaya
11. Chen Lu
12. Shizuka Arakawa

Regarding Cohen, had she actually been a much more consistent jumper, her overall skating would have easily put her in my top 10. I think her elegance and quality epitomizes what modern figure skating should be, but without the technical chops to back it up she's out of there. It might put her in my top 20 though.

Men:

1. Alexei Yagudin
2. John Curry
3. Evgeni Plushenko
4. Dick Button
5. Brian Boitano
6. Kurt Browning
7. Robin Cousins
8. Elvis Stojko
9. Toller Cranston
10. Scott Hamilton
11. Patrick Chan
12. Daisuke Takahashi
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I would have Patrick in my personal Top 20 (although not that high, to be honest), but you are giving him a little too much credit...

Which means absolutly nothing. What exactly does it mean for the Chan Yagudin comparison that Chan received the highest (arguably inflated) scores in a system that Yagudin didnt skate under?

Really? I don't think all of those guys are just doing quads because Chan started to do them too. Look at his main competitors: Takahashi did quads, long, long before Chan did. He even tried them after his injury and with a bolt in his knee. Even at the Olympics when he could have played it safe. Fernandez was doing the 4T too before Chan started training them. And Hanyu? He's a quad-maniac, thanKs to his love for Plush. You can argue that Chan plays a part in teh return of the 4T - but the main reason was raising it's base value, and then there would have been enough talented jumpers to go for it if Chan does so or not. Let alone the japanese men would have to have the upper hand in the battle against each other (Kozuka was doing quads too before Chan did).

Oh, not really. Takahashi is an inconsistent skater too, but I don't think that keeps people from adding him to their lists. Or think of Lambiel. But for Chan inconsistent isn't even the right word - it's more that he's consistently making mistakes. If I call someone one of the greatest of all time I'd at least want to be able to find some clean performances of them without having to search for hours. And yes, being able to skate clean is a huge part in the greatest of all time for quite a few people, me included.

I think having the highest scores in the IJS - a system which is far more demanding for skaters than 6.0 - is notable. And saying Yagudin never had to compete against that is as negligible as saying Dick Button never had to do triple axels or quads, so why should he rank higher than others? These assessments are based on the the era in which each skater is skating, so I wasn't implying that Yagudin could or couldn't compete against that since we will never know.

Takahashi would be included because of how artistic superior he is, but he's also been inconsistent (thought not as much as Chan) with error-filled performances too.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
It's hard to compare across eras, so I look at who was dominant within their era.

Men - Dick Button 2 OGM, 4 US Titles (I think), 4 WC (I think), even a European Title. Those who are knowledgeable about the sport say he was 20 years ahead of the field.

Women - Peggy Fleming. Won the OGM by nearly 90 points. 5 Us Titles, 3 WC. (There are other candidates as well...)

Pairs - Irina Rodnina/Alexander Zaitsev. In Irina's case 3 OGM, Ten WC in a row. Honorable mention to Protopopov. My favorite pairs team ever. Perfection.

Dance - not too well versed in the history, so will go with Torville/Dean, simply because they transformed the sport and routed the competition.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
My top ten lists (too lazy to do top 20). I'm ranking by perceived skating quality, technical skills, impact within sport, performance ability, quality of choreography, and a big whopping dose of personal preference.

PAIRS:
1. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze
2. Protopopovs
3. Gordeeva/Grinkov
4. Rodnina/Zaitsev
5. Mishkutenok/Dmitriev
6. Valova/Vasiliev
7. Shen/Zhao
8. Savchenko/Szolkowy
9. Totmianina/Marinin
10. Rodnina/Ulanov

DANCE:
1. Torvill/Dean
2. Klimova/Ponomarenko
3. Pakhomova/Gorshkov
4. Grishuk/Platov
5. Anissina/Peizerat
6. Bestemianova/Bukin
7. Krylova/Ovsiannikov
8. Virtue/Moir
9. Usova/Zhulin
10. Denkova/Staviski

MEN:
1. Alexei Yagudin
2. Dick Button
3. John Curry
4. Toller Cranston
5. Kurt Browning
6. Stephane Lambiel
7. Robin Cousins
8. Brian Boitano
9. Evgeni Plushenko
10. Daisuke Takahashi

LADIES:
1. Michelle Kwan
2. Peggy Fleming
3. Yu-Na Kim
4. Janet Lynn
5. Sonja Henie
6. Midori Ito
7. Cecilia Colledge
8. Dorothy Hamill
9. Katarina Witt
10. Mao Asada


I will add the caveat that the order of the lists is likely to change with my mood.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
IMHO the ultimate criterion is body of work.

For each candidate, selected their fifteen best programs and then select the best performance of each. Which skater's full portfolio would you want to put in a time capsule to be discovered a million years after the earth is destroyed? To me, Michelle Kwan is without peer or rival by this measure. (kurt Browning for the men, counting pro programs.)

On a different note: Trixie Schuba deserves some love on these lists. She was the greatest figure skater of all time. :clap:
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
That is always the most interesting question. What are the criteria? There is a difference between an "I won lots of medals" all-star and a "I gave exquisite performances" all-star. I am sure that pangtongfan would concede that Patrick Chan is the all-time "read the protocols" champion, but not so much the all-time "look at my on-ice performances" champion. ;)

For me, I would give heavy weight to what the skaters accomplished after their days of amateur competitions were over.

IMHO the ultimate criterion is body of work.

For each candidate, selected their fifteen best programs and then select the best performance of each. Which skater's full portfolio would you want to put in a time capsule to be discovered a million years after the earth is destroyed? To me, Michelle Kwan is without peer or rival by this measure. (kurt Browning for the men, counting pro programs.)

I actually think that the criteria for choosing the skaters for the lists is an interesting topic to debate, more so than comparing the lists themselves. Body of work/programs? Achievements as professionals? Achievements as amateurs? Medal count/color of the medal?

In no particular order, here's my criteria: Olympic titles/medals, world titles/medals, and non-world titles/medals (i.e. Grand Prix, Four CCs, Europeans, Nationals); longevity and consistency; unique artistic and technical ability/achievements; memorable performances/programs/body of work; what a skater has accomplished in representing for their country; and what a skater has contributed to the sport.

Some of the great all-time skaters mentioned in this thread tick more of these boxes than others, while the greatest pretty much ticked them all. But not having an Olympic title doesn't preclude a skater from being considered great according to my criteria, if their contributions in other areas outweigh the ones that they did not fulfill.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I'm curious as to why people have ranked Lynn so high? Her technical ability was great, but she was poor at figures and never won a Worlds (silver and a bronze) or Olympics (bronze).

Here is an example of a Janet Lynn performance. Sandra Bezik said, in her recent interview with Jennifer and David, that once you've seen Janet Lynn you realize that skating has not progressed in the last thirty years -- quite the opposite. There is no one skating today who can skate like this. Notice the variation in speed, the attention to detail, and how she weaves the jumps into the choreograohy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7kTnyOcPy4
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Here is an example of a Janet Lynn performance. Sandra Bezik said, in her recent interview with Jennifer and David, that once you've seen Janet Lynn you realize that skating has not progressed in the last thirty years -- quite the opposite. There is no one skating today who can skate like this. Notice the variation in speed, the attention to detail, and how she weaves the jumps into the choreograohy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7kTnyOcPy4

To be fair, couldn't it be because skaters are all doing triples and quads nowadays, which take a bit more time and energy to set-up? Isn't it "easier" to weave doubles into choreography? I'm not denying Lynn's unparalleled musicality, but she could afford to pay attention to detail and choreography when all she had to jump were doubles.

Moreover, while it may be true that skating has gone nowhere artistically since Lynn, it is true that it has progressed technically. This is actually the direction it has taken since Lynn, with greater and greater emphasis on jumps. Ironically enough, the elimination of figures which was supposed to bring advantage to skaters like Lynn probably accelerated this move towards the athletic side.
 
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