Single/Pair scale of values, levels, and GOEs: ISU Communication 1790 (Apr 26) | Golden Skate

Single/Pair scale of values, levels, and GOEs: ISU Communication 1790 (Apr 26)

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avatar credit: @miyan5605
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Feb 27, 2012
Single/Pair scale of values, levels, and GOEs: ISU Communication 1790 (Apr 26)

Single/Pair scale of values, levels, and GOEs: ISU Communication 1790 (Apr 26)

Single & Pair Skating
26 April 2013
Scale of Values, Levels of Difficulty and Guidelines for marking Grade of Execution has been published in ISU Communication 1790.

The link to the ISU document:
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
I have one doubt: if someone in a spin performs 8 revolutions on both feet and nothing else (for example, Chan's CCSp in the SP), is it a level 2 or a level 3?
And, I'm happy that they didn't change the BV for the Olympic season!
 

gkelly

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Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I have one doubt: if someone in a spin performs 8 revolutions on both feet and nothing else (for example, Chan's CCSp in the SP), is it a level 2 or a level 3?

As I understand the rule as it's written, the 8-revolution feature counts only once in the program, but if it's done on both feet in the same spin then the tech panel can give credit for either the first or the second spin depending which would benefit the skater more -- e.g., they can't get credit for four features on the same foot and none on the other, so if there were multiple features on the first foot and no other features on the second, they'd count it on the second.

So if there were literally no other features in the spin, the only feature being 8 revolutions (on each foot), then if I understand correctly it would be level 1.

As for Chan's SP camel spin, at Worlds he didn't have 8 revolutions on the first foot, and just barely on the second, so whether to count it twice wouldn't be an issue. The other features I see there are backward entry and change of edge on the second foot.

So that makes 3 features by my count. Did they also give him credit for accelerating in the position? I don't see that. Or for a difficult position (arm position) on the first foot?
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Joined
Jan 25, 2013
As I understand the rule as it's written, the 8-revolution feature counts only once in the program, but if it's done on both feet in the same spin then the tech panel can give credit for either the first or the second spin depending which would benefit the skater more -- e.g., they can't get credit for four features on the same foot and none on the other, so if there were multiple features on the first foot and no other features on the second, they'd count it on the second.

So if there were literally no other features in the spin, the only feature being 8 revolutions (on each foot), then if I understand correctly it would be level 1.

As for Chan's SP camel spin, at Worlds he didn't have 8 revolutions on the first foot, and just barely on the second, so whether to count it twice wouldn't be an issue. The other features I see there are backward entry and change of edge on the second foot.

So that makes 3 features by my count. Did they also give him credit for accelerating in the position? I don't see that. Or for a difficult position (arm position) on the first foot?

I believe he got a level feature for twisting his body sideways, which counted as a difficulty variation. With the backwards entry, edge change, and 8 rotations, that would consitute a level 4.

Question:

"6) Clear change of edge in sit (only from backward inside to forward outside), camel, Layback and Biellmann position"

So does this mean if somebody does a flying camel/sit and switches to an inside edge, it won't get counted as a level feature?
 

96skiluvr

On the Ice
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Apr 3, 2013
I thought that the -3 GOE for a Triple Lutz was minus 3 points, not 2.1 points? Or was it changed this year? Someone please reply!
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I thought that the -3 GOE for a Triple Lutz was minus 3 points, not 2.1 points? Or was it changed this year? Someone please reply!

Yes. it was changes a couple of years ago. The judges punch -1, -2, -3, but the computer converts this to -0.7, -1.4, and -2.1 on a triple jump. For triple Axels and quads it is still a full -3.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
I thought that the -3 GOE for a Triple Lutz was minus 3 points, not 2.1 points? Or was it changed this year? Someone please reply!
It was changed, as Mathman said, after Vancouver, and that's part of why programs like Yu-Na's FS at Worlds don't receive super-high scores: when all the elements are executed perfectly, if you receive all the GOEs between +2 and +3 now you can receive between +1.40 and +2.10 bonus points per element, before 2010 you could receive bonus points between +2 and +3 per element; just to understand, Yu-Na's GOE score at Worlds was +16.51, in Vancouver it was +17.40, and in Vancouver Yu-Na's marks were mostly +2s, in London she received a lot of +3s...
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
"6) Clear change of edge in sit (only from backward inside to forward outside), camel, Layback and Biellmann position"

So does this mean if somebody does a flying camel/sit and switches to an inside edge, it won't get counted as a level feature?

Change of edge only counts in a forward sit spin (bi to fo) but counts for either forward or back for camel and layback
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
So, no change from last year in GOE deductions on a fall and a two-foot landing. Both have -3 GOE. In another word, a two-foot landing is as bad as a fall. The difference is a fall has an extra -1 deduction.

Just point this out for the record.;)
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
So, no change from last year in GOE deductions on a fall and a two-foot landing. Both have -3 GOE. In another word, a two-foot landing is as bad as a fall.

For the record, this has long been true, going back long before IJS.

The rules for the long program used to state explicitly that a jump landed on two feet would not be marked/receive no credit.

However, I think there has also always been a distinction between jumps landed on two feet (weight equally distributed, or primarily over the wrong side) and jumps landed with body weight over the correct foot but with a touchdown of the free foot.

The GOE reduction for the former is -3; for the latter it's only -1.

Under the last version of 6.0 short program deductions, the deduction for two-foot landing is 0.3, for touchdown 0.1-0.2. Fall is 0.4.

Of course, most jumps landed on two feet (as well as most jumps with falls) tend to be underrotated, so the final SP deduction for a jump with that combination of major errors would often have been 0.4 anyway.
 

gkelly

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Joined
Jul 26, 2003

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Oh sorry, totally misread mskater93's post... makes sense now. Although kinda weird that they'd allow the forward sit but not the back sit.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Oh sorry, totally misread mskater93's post... makes sense now. Although kinda weird that they'd allow the forward sit but not the back sit.

I think people (coaches, etc.) had been complaining that beginners often do back sitspin and back upright spin on a forward inside edge and that this is considered a mistake/poor technique, so they hated to see it rewarded in the edge-change feature. That's part of why the feature always required at least 2 revolutions on each edge and not simply use of the unexpected edge.

I guess TPTB eventually decided that edge change in back sit and simple back upright, and also simple forward upright, is not difficult enough to merit extra points.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Clearly, ISU doesn't want to make dramatic changes in rules during one Olympic cycle. So I'm expecting the similar drama on ice and from fans next year. There might be a few more fall wins over clean programs.:laugh:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
^ I don't see what's funny about that. If there is an unpopular and disappointing outcome at the Olympics, the joke is on all of us. :cry:
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Oh sorry, totally misread mskater93's post... makes sense now. Although kinda weird that they'd allow the forward sit but not the back sit.

Because EVERYBODY and their brother was using the back sit/change of edge because it is the easiest spin to get the edge change on without screwing up the rest of the spin after an upright spin (which doesn't count at all for the edge change like it did about 3-4 years ago)
 
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