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Thread: Should the short dance and original dance alternate each year?

  1. #1
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    Should the short dance and original dance alternate each year?

    The Original Dance was replaced by the short dance after the elimination of the compulsory dance. Both sections scored the program components out of 40.

    The elements for the original dance were
    - 1 short lift
    - 1 Set of twizzles
    - 2 step sequences (in hold and no touch)

    If all were given level 4 the total base value= 4+6+8+8=26pts
    If all level 4 elements then get +3, the highest possible TES=4+(1.5)+6+(1.5)+8+(3)+8+(3)=35pts

    The short dance elements are
    - 1 short lift
    - 1 Set of twizzles
    - 1 no touch step sequence
    - 2 sequences of a compulsory dance

    If all were given level 4 the total base value 2 would = 4+6+8+7+7=32pts
    If all level 4 element then get +3, the highest TES= 4+(1.5)+6+(1.5)+8+(3)+7+(1.5)+7+(1.5)=41pts

    At the end of the original dance era, the ISU began choosing more conceptual themes for this section which made it entertaining. Wouldn't it be cool if they could alternate between the two dances each year. Maybe to make up for the 6pt deficit between the highest possible TES you can get in the SD and the OD, maybe a choreographed step sequence in the style of the OD worth a fixed base value of 3pts with positive GOE increasing by increments of 1pt (I.e. +1=4pts, +2=5pts and +3 GOE=6pts) and negative GOE decreasing by increments of 0.5 (-1=2.5pts, -2=2.0pts and -3=1.5). This sequence shouldn't have a huge base value as this element is more about the style of the dance, rather than about getting a specific number of moves and steps in.

    I miss the original dance a lot. I was really looking forward to their 50s, 60s and 70s theme.

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    Interesting idea! That's really thinking out of the box.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I miss the OD too! And the CD's!

    However, I've got to say that I really liked a lot of this year's polka SD's, particularly Meryl & Charlie's Giselle polka, which has to be my favorite SD ever
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7etC7yMjE-s

    And anyone who says you can't tell a story in an SD hasn't watched what Zhiganshina & Gaszi did with this year's SD, or for that matter, Bobrova & Soloviev's SD.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I miss the OD too! And the CD's!

    However, I've got to say that I really liked a lot of this year's polka SD's, particularly Meryl & Charlie's Giselle polka, which has to be my favorite SD ever
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7etC7yMjE-s

    And anyone who says you can't tell a story in an SD hasn't watched what Zhiganshina & Gaszi did with this year's SD, or for that matter, Bobrova & Soloviev's SD.
    You got that right. The best dancers are those who can create magic within the constraints. Anyone have connections to an ISU member. I think that my suggestion above might be good for ice dance.

  5. #5
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    I agree that the idea could be good, but in the OD year, the skater wouldn't compete compulsory dances at all or there would be a separate CD competition?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    I agree that the idea could be good, but in the OD year, the skater wouldn't compete compulsory dances at all or there would be a separate CD competition?
    No. Just omit the compulsory portion as a whole. Having specified rhythms and dances are great and all but there is a whole world of dance outside the ballroom and latin world and there only so many compulsory dances out there. When they were tapping conceptual themes such as folk music and were going to do the 50s, 60s and 70s theme, I was really excited for that.

    Besides with the ISU implementing 'partial step sequences' after the Olympic season, the compulsory portion of the SD is becoming even less significant. Also, variety is a good thing.

  7. #7
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    One of the stated reasons for eliminating the Cd was the problem that the IOC insisted on only 2 phases for each skating competition. So the way to do this is:

    Olympics years SD
    Olympics + 1 year CD & OD
    Olympics + 2 years SD
    Olympics + 3 years CD & OD

    Now that I would love!

    It also avoids the problems that not all that many CD's make a good base for SD's.
    IMO, the Golden Waltz, Finnstep, Yankee Polka & Tango Romantica are about it. But that would give you 8 years to repeat on, so very few couples would ever repeat an SD theme.

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    Hate to be a downer to this interesting discussion, but IMO the CD part of the SD is going the way of the dodo bird at the senior level. There are only a handful of CD's considered difficult enough to use in top level competitions these days, which is why the idea of a set of specifically designed steps set to a specific rhythm is being tested out after Sochi. Guess we will have to wait and see what develops.

  9. #9
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    ^ That's a shame. The compulsory patterns were the prettiest part of the short dance. Plus it gives the audience a chance to understand what it is that the dancers are embellishing in the freer sections.

    Sometimes you just want to see a waltz or a polka.
    Last edited by Mathman; 04-29-2013 at 04:28 PM.

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    I loved the compulsory portion of the SD as well and thought it was a great solution to getting rid of the CD. It's great to note a sequence where a team's fundamentals can really set them apart, but the rest of the dance has elements that allow for originality and creativity. The OD was interesting from a "playing off a theme" standpoint but watching 20 interpretations of a tango, is kinda like watching 20 CD's but with different steps. I loved the idea for 2010 where the OD had a "world theme" (hah, yes, even with D/S's crazy aboriginal dance) and it was perfect for the Olympics. D/W's indian Short Dance was absolutely brilliant ... and really that whole OD segment from the 2010 Olympics is worth watching over and over.

  11. #11
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    The everybody- tango- through- the- whole- program was my least favorite ever OD theme. But then, I find tango music very monotonouse in any case.

    From the 1999-2000 season until the 2009-2010, OD themes had several rhythms that the dancers could choose from so that they did not become monotonous to watch:

    1999-2000 Latin Combination: Meringue, Cha Cha, Samba, Mambo, Rhumba
    2000-2001 Charleston, Foxtrot, Quickstep and March
    2001-2002 Tango, Flamenco, Paso Doble and Spanish Waltz
    2002-2003 Memories of a Grand Ball: Waltz, Polka, March, and Gallop
    2003-2004 Swing Combo: Jive, Boogie Woogie, Jitterbug, Rock N' Roll and Blues
    2004-2005 Foxtrot, Quickstep, Charleston
    2005-2006 Latin Combination: Meringue, Cha Cha, Samba, Mambo, Rhumba
    2006-2007 Tango I don't know why the ISU thought this was a good choice
    2007-2008 Folk, Country
    2008-2009 Rhythms and Dances of the 1920's, 1930's or 1940's
    2009-2010 Folk, Country

  12. #12
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    I always had a love-hate relationship with the OD. It just can get really campy! I have to bring up Dancing With the Stars because I'm reminded of Len, who always always hates creative frou frou stuff. He really tears people up when they don't have enough basic dance steps and just waste time posing or pandering to the crowd. I feel like that about the OD--there's usually just excessive preening and running around depending on the "theme." I was glad to see it go away though I did enjoy the Vancouver OD.

    So far, I've liked the SD but I think I'm biased because I've liked every compulsory pattern so far. The only thing that bugs me about the SD is when teams make poor music selection. Ill-fitting music can really downplay the compulsory patterns regardless of how well they're executed. This past season, V/M and the Shibs come to mind. The music and tempo they chose just didn't seem to jive with the steps they were doing and while I was either confused or not totally bought, there were other couples like D/W and C/L with music that suited them AND the steps AND there was no muddiness about their concept.

    I don't mind if the OD never comes back but like others have said, I'm not sure if there are enough cool compulsory patterns to go around for a cycle without repeating. I don't know a lot about them though so the list above is encouraging.

  13. #13
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    There are only so many compulsory dances out there, which is of a good standard for the SD.The ISU should of thought about the SD more before approving it. I still have apprehensions about placing a set pattern dance into an original composition- it can seem jarring at times.

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