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Thread: Is this a flutz?

  1. #1
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Is this a flutz?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHfgjszz_Tk#t=3m31s

    Or does she rock back toward the flat but not go quite to an inside edge?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHfgjszz_Tk#t=3m31s

    Or does she rock back toward the flat but not go quite to an inside edge?
    Looks like ! to me. Not clear outside edge, but not exactly inside edge.

  3. #3
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    Eh...it'd be borderline...and I think she's definitely saved by the camera angle. If there was a front-on shot I'd imagine she'd be less lucky. I saw less called yesterday.

  4. #4
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    I paused it at 3:32 and it definitely looked inside to me. I think this would get an edge call by a tech panel with replay.

  5. #5
    ~high art~
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    Looks like slight inside. A truly "flat" edge in a strict sense doesn't exist in reality.

  6. #6
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    yeah its a flutz

  7. #7
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    GOOD ENOUGH FOR GOLD.

    all cap

  8. #8
    Outdated Old Dinosaur
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    One of these days, I want to see the judges climb down from their pedestals and go inspect the ice like they used to do in the Compulsory Figures.

  9. #9
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    It's a Flutz, Mathman.

    The edge is not clear from this clip...but I took a screenshot of the moment she is leaving the ice. How can she possibly be on the outside edge with such a heavy inward lean? Ankles do not bend significantly from side to side unless they are broken.
    http://i41.tinypic.com/2qtcsv8.jpg

    I have previously shown the same thing using her 1998 FS Lutz takeoffs.

    It's hard to get the exact camera angles to show the vertical axis of skaters doing proper 3Lutzes (off the outside edge), but here are two:

    Miki Ando:
    http://i42.tinypic.com/sm9kjp.jpg

    Oksana Baiul:
    http://i39.tinypic.com/mkafc9.jpg

    Notice how the other two are much straighter and not leaning towards the inside, which makes sense. Taking off from the outside edge but having to rotate opposed to it is a balancing act.

    Of course, if you are still skeptical, surely you wouldn't be so bold as to call Dick Button a liar
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHfgjszz_Tk&t=3m44s

  10. #10
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Yes, it would receive the "e", today... It looks similar to Akiko's lutz to me, with the change of edge at the last second...

  11. #11
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    That was certainly a flutz. The fact that Dick Button even pointed out that it was the slightest of inside edges means it was a definite flutz. Often when a commentator says "a slight under rotation" or a "bit of a flutz" or a "slight touchdown", they're understating the severity of the mistake, particularly if it's a skater they like.

  12. #12
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Michelle never had a solid/deep outside edge in her lutz. It was a pushed outside edge (like someone said, very similar to Akiko's) that wasn't 100% to the inside but wasn't a solid outside either, so depending on the jump the call could go either way.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Michelle never had a solid/deep outside edge in her lutz. It was a pushed outside edge (like someone said, very similar to Akiko's) that wasn't 100% to the inside but wasn't a solid outside either, so depending on the jump the call could go either way.
    Actually, Michelle did some really nice lutzes late in her career.

    2005 Worlds SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...0fv6VCk#t=259s

    The lutz looks good to me--much better than in 1998.

    British Eurosports also thought that it was much better there, referring to her history of taking off on an inside edge.

    Oddly enough, her flip looks rather off an outside edge. I wonder if working on her lutz altered her flip.

  14. #14
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    ^^That is pretty good. I think the time she spent with Rafael really helped her jumps later in her career. He was known as a technical coach and judging by Michelle's jumps he did a good job...that's why I don't understand why Mao left him when she did.

    Do any of Frank Carroll's students have really deep lutz edges? I know Mirai had that same shallow outside edge lutz take off when she was with him.

  15. #15
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Chris Bowman and Bebe Liang come to mind as people that have a more definitive 3Lz entry.

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