Which 2 Russian Ladies will make the Olympic Team? | Page 12 | Golden Skate

Which 2 Russian Ladies will make the Olympic Team?

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Your post has a certain implication. But anyway, 2006 Mao is a prodigy, 2006 Irina is a downhill mess. 2013 Julia is a freaking mess, 2013 Mao is an improving Mao with great programs. So not the same at all, and shouldn't be used as example to show youngsters can win.
If Elena/Julia come out with better programs than Mao and Carolina (like Mao's programs were better than Irina in 2006) and with better skating skill than the old veterans, then their PCS wouldn't be 10 points back.

As for Li Zijun, this girl is very cute. Don't confuse cute with skating skill. Her skating skill is weak. Actually, she scored really well for what she did. Compare to Kostner's SS, which only barely cracked 9, Zijun's SS should be no more than 6. That alone is almost 4.7 points difference in the LP.

As for the CH, IN, not even close. Their programs are masterpiece, and Zijun's programs are forgettable. Cute, but nothing amazing about it. I wouldn't say her programs are even good.

So yes, she should be that many points behind. It's not like she went out with better programs than Mao and Carolina and somehow still managed to score 12 points behind them. This is not the same situation as 2006 at all. I don't care if Julia did 90 triples, she should never come close to any of Mao, Yuna, Carolina.

Li is not a powerful skater like Wagner, Gold, Osmond, Sotnikova, etc. Her SS is on par with what Radionova and Lipnitskaia, with their tiny, light frames, can physically put onto the ice. That translates into average or slightly above average SS. A "6" for SS would, in fact, suggest that Li is barely above the norm.

She's also quite a lyrical skater, which made "Sleeping Beauty" a good choice for her. Unfortunately, this was the one and only time I was disappointed with David Wilson's work this season, because Li couldn't and didn't project the highs and lows of the piece, even at Worlds. Had similar choreography been given to a mature skater like Yuna or Mao, I have no doubt that they would have presented it much better and still have made the World podium. People compare Li to young Yuna, but the frank fact is that Yuna was much more powerful, even as a junior, than Li will likely ever be.

Li's struggle right now is NOT to contend with the Big 3, because she's simply not there yet; nor will she be by the Olympics. None of the younger ladies can pose a significant threat to the top tier because they're not the reincarnations of young Yuna or Mao, obvious prodigies who medalled at Worlds in their first senior season. Rather, Li should focus on upstaging her generation of skaters--Sotnikova, Tukt, Osmond, and Gold--which will be a fight in and of itself. In terms of TES and PCS, Li is undoubtedly at the bottom of the shuffle right now. If she doesn't land her jumps, then nothing can save her, but if her jumps become more consistent and her SS improves (and, IMO, she should be aiming to surpass Gold, the strongest of that group), she'll be on the right track to a future World medal.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
I just hoped that PCS gap between youngsters and veterans would be reduced a little... Of course, old top skaters like Yuna and Mao and Caro's skate/program is much, much better.
but anyway figure skating is sports... i think more than 10 point difference in PCS is too big
The new generation has to WORK for it, they just won't get the PCS gap reduced. When Kim and Asada came on the Senior scene, they had skated as Juniors under IJS which really helped them grow outside the GLARING spotlight into good SKATERS. They've maintained that skating skill and even when they make a few mistakes, that underlying skating quality is still there.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Young Yuna and young Mao were better skaters than the current 16 year old skaters, both technically and presentation wise.

I agree about your statement on technical merit, but my personal opinion is that Adelina and Kaetlyn are better in presentation than Mao at the same age. I don't find that Mao engages with the audience particularly well in her competitive programs.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Wow, people are quick to forget. Mao at her debut year was better than Adelina and Klyn can ever dream of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmyUwtmch9w

The skill, the effortlessness, the TES were astounding. Don't get it twisted. People were saying she would be multiple world champion. No one is saying the same about Adelina and Klyn.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Li is not a powerful skater like Wagner, Gold, Osmond, Sotnikova, etc. Her SS is on par with what Radionova and Lipnitskaia, with their tiny, light frames, can physically put onto the ice. That translates into average or slightly above average SS. A "6" for SS would, in fact, suggest that Li is barely above the norm.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/wc2013_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
Li's SS is 7.29. Quite high when you compare her to Gold and Wagner.
Most of the girls are getting low 6. Li's SS isn't better than most of the girls.

If she wants to be competitive, she will have to be faster. She will have to work on her stroking, etc... Her slight frame is very similar to Mao and Yuna back in 2006, but they were very fast. There's no reason why she can't develop into something like Mao and Yuna in the future.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Her FS score was fine. There was overall score inflation in that night. And Whatever her score was, she was deserved silver medal.

I agree she deserved her silver, but you're right about the overall inflation -- particularly with Asada and Kostner. It's crazy that their freeskates were personal bests for them (especially Kostner... I mean, a popped jump and a downgraded fall at the end = a PB?!). They've given much cleaner performances in the past, so it was surprising to see that (not to mention, some of the SP PCS scores in the final flight were ridiculous).
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/wc2013_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
Li's SS is 7.29. Quite high when you compare her to Gold and Wagner.
Most of the girls are getting low 6. Li's SS isn't better than most of the girls.

If she wants to be competitive, she will have to be faster. She will have to work on her stroking, etc... Her slight frame is very similar to Mao and Yuna back in 2006, but they were very fast. There's no reason why she can't develop into something like Mao and Yuna in the future.

As YOU suggested, a 6 for Li's SS would mean that she's slightly above average.

It's possible that Li could develop better-than-average speed/power later in her career, but I don't think it's likely. Not many ladies have managed to do so after their late teens, and as I said before, she's not at the same level as Mao and Yuna were at that age. Those two, plus Kostner, are so successful because they can combine speed, artistry, and physical strength. Li currently possesses one of the above.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
The skill, the effortlessness, the TES were astounding. Don't get it twisted. People were saying she would be multiple world champion. No one is saying the same about Adelina and Klyn.

Sure they are. Some people here thought Kaetlyn would win this year (which I didn't agree with). The fact is these two are among the favorites to win after the big 3 retire, along with Gracie and a few more of the Russian skaters. I'd guess by 2018, one of Adelina, Kaetlyn, or Gracie will be a multiple world champion.
 

Moment

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Sure they are. Some people here thought Kaetlyn would win this year (which I didn't agree with). The fact is these two are among the favorites to win after the big 3 retire, along with Gracie and a few more of the Russian skaters. I'd guess by 2018, one of Adelina, Kaetlyn, or Gracie will be a multiple world champion.

They were not taken very seriously though...
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Sure they are. Some people here thought Kaetlyn would win this year (which I didn't agree with). The fact is these two are among the favorites to win after the big 3 retire, along with Gracie and a few more of the Russian skaters. I'd guess by 2018, one of Adelina, Kaetlyn, or Gracie will be a multiple world champion.

Well, not reasonably. The younger girls, although they're in contention for World medals after the veterans leave, are still lacking in consistency. I believe Kaetlyn had one clean FS all season; Gracie had two, but showed visible improvement from Nationals until WTT. Liza and Adelina have their own share of issues such as SS and UR's.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Sotnikova and tuktamisheva are 9th and 10th in the world right now and I wouldn't be surprised if they were both ousted by other young Russians by 2018 if they don't dramatically improve. They could not even go to Sochi because of all their problems. LiPiniskaia and pogorilaya are a very plausible team.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Sure they are. Some people here thought Kaetlyn would win this year (which I didn't agree with). The fact is these two are among the favorites to win after the big 3 retire, along with Gracie and a few more of the Russian skaters. I'd guess by 2018, one of Adelina, Kaetlyn, or Gracie will be a multiple world champion.

and you will likely end up wrong. There is no skater right now that shows potential to dominate like Kim, Kwan, or even Asada. You will probably see 5 different World or Olympic winners next quad, or if there is a multiple winner it will be someone who wasnt even at Worlds this year. Although if I had to guess on the long term future prospects of that trio you mentioned I would go Gold > Osmond > Sotnikova.

The people who said Osmond would win this year, would get higher PCS than Kim, and some other nonsense I read only from a few select trolls (one infamous one the same one who said Sandhu could best Chan on PCS if he came back a year ago) before Worlds this year were simply laughed at and ridiculed heavily by the other 99% of us who know squat all about the sport, so I would not reference that as a point on anything. The actual human individuals projected bottom part of the top 10 for her first Worlds this year and voila where she was. A good debut, lets see where she goes from here.
 

Summerdaisy

Spectator
Joined
May 29, 2013
Can anybody explain why Russian skaters are so great at what they do and why their skating style sticks out amongst the others!
 

Macassar88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Can anybody explain why Russian skaters are so great at what they do and why their skating style sticks out amongst the others!

Elizaveta's strength is in her jump technique. Perfect technique on just about every jump she does. She can also do 3Lz-3T, 2A-3T and has done 3S-3T
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Liza's strength is her jumps. While they are nice, they are also very small. She's slow so her jumps are miniature of great jumps.
If she has the speed of half the senior ladies competing, her jumps would have more impact on the viewer.

Adelina's strength is being Russian.

Their styles stick out among others. Like a sore thump.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Sure they are. Some people here thought Kaetlyn would win this year (which I didn't agree with). The fact is these two are among the favorites to win after the big 3 retire, along with Gracie and a few more of the Russian skaters. I'd guess by 2018, one of Adelina, Kaetlyn, or Gracie will be a multiple world champion.

Sure, if the top 10 retire, Bebe could be world champion, too. What kind of logic is that?
 

venlac

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Sure they are. Some people here thought Kaetlyn would win this year (which I didn't agree with). The fact is these two are among the favorites to win after the big 3 retire, along with Gracie and a few more of the Russian skaters. I'd guess by 2018, one of Adelina, Kaetlyn, or Gracie will be a multiple world champion.

I agree about Gracie and adelina, but i can't sure about kaetlyn.
And I think Li zijun have also great potential to be a future world champion. In past season, She had a good season than other youngsters. She is already called 'total package' skater, although she have few weakness points that she do not skate fast, jumps are small..
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Liza's strength is her jumps. While they are nice, they are also very small. She's slow so her jumps are miniature of great jumps.
If she has the speed of half the senior ladies competing, her jumps would have more impact on the viewer.

Adelina's strength is being Russian.

Their styles stick out among others. Like a sore thump.

Adelina has the best expression of the current younger generation. Her jumps aren't that consistent anymore, probably due to nerves, but to say that she's only a top lady because of the Russian Fed's influence is a vast exaggeration.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/wc2013_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
Li's SS is 7.29. Quite high when you compare her to Gold and Wagner.
Most of the girls are getting low 6. Li's SS isn't better than most of the girls.

If she wants to be competitive, she will have to be faster. She will have to work on her stroking, etc... Her slight frame is very similar to Mao and Yuna back in 2006, but they were very fast. There's no reason why she can't develop into something like Mao and Yuna in the future.

Mao is not very fast. At the Olympics, a number of comments were made when Mao and Yuna skated back-to-back in the SP and how Yuna was just so much faster. For a skater of her accomplishments, I would actually say Mao is not that fast or that powerful, her skating is so great and so well scored for other reasons such as her superb spins and lines, ability to deliver difficult step sequences brilliantly, having intricate choreography and transitions, her graceful carriage and flow, and her 3a. Mao's jumps are not particularly big or powerful, and her skating is not particularly fast or powerful, but she excels in other areas which enable her to compete with the likes of Kim and Kostner.

Li possesses some of these same qualities as Mao, but they aren't quite as developed and impressive yet. With more time, I think she could get there though, and if she does, I think she could be World/Olympic medalist or champion material WITHOUT having to suddenly develop loads of speed and power which she obviously doesn't have naturally and may have a hard time developing due to her body type. I also think she is maybe a stronger jumper than Mao already, just in terms of being able to rotate her 3-3s consistently and such. But this is mostly due to quick rotation, which could slow down if her body changes significantly in the coming years.

(And I know, Yuna is really skinny too, but I think her amazing speed really helps her generate so much height and power in her jumps more than her musculature. Also, Yuna has always had very sturdy looking and muscular legs, even as a young teen. Her muscles are long and lean, so her legs never looked thick like some other skaters' do, but the leg muscles were always very visible, even through the tights. Mao and Zijun do not have the same look to their legs.)
 
Top