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Thread: Which 2 Russian Ladies will make the Olympic Team?

  1. #46
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    Very true. If neither Liza or Adelina are good enough for the gpf why even bother making their paths to the Olympics easy? Julia and Liza made the gpf with no Yuna and no Carolina in the gp and no katelyn who only had one gp. The idea that Liza and Adelina deserve or would be best for the Olympics is absurd. Both of them bombed worlds horribly. So if at the end of the gp Julia is a higher ranking skater then that should factor. Adelina had a horrible gp season and then a horrible worlds and showed she can barely compete as a senior and beat girls her own age. Same thing with Liza. Can't even beat girls their own age.

  2. #47
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    Liza and Adelina should get the spots, presuming they skate respectably at Nationals and Euros. Julia is very overrated as a skater. She has great flexibility and that's it. She is going to lose her microscopic jumps when she hits puberty.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Liza and Adelina should get the spots, presuming they skate respectably at Nationals and Euros. Julia is very overrated as a skater. She has great flexibility and that's it. She is going to lose her microscopic jumps when she hits puberty.
    To be fair it's her 2A that's the really microscopic jump. If her jumps were microscopic, there's no way she'd be able to do 3Z+3T. And though it is a product of her flexibility, I find her spins to be excellent as well (and not just the contorted positions). Her presentation might come with maturity, but unfortunately that also seems to be of detriment to consistency. It'll be interesting to see how defiant she is in the face of puberty. I think flexibility will be one of the hardest things for her to maintain, so she'll have to improve the rest of her skating.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    At Junior Worlds in 2012 her score was 187, and that was with "junior" level PCS. Assuming she repeats a performance like that, she can potentially clear 190. That score of 187 would have been good enough for silver at that year's Worlds, and been just shy of Ashley Wagner's 5th at this past Worlds. As she grows her consistency becomes questionable, but she's at least challenging herself with 3Z+3T, when really she just needs to continue doing 2A+3T+2T and 2A+3T to max out her technical scores. http://www.isuresults.com/results/wj..._FS_Scores.pdf As much as people want to say you can't consider competitions where skaters didn't compete against each other, there's no denying her technical scores -- at this year's Worlds, those scores would have had the 3rd best TES in the SP, and (with the ChSp1 added in) the 2nd best TES in the LP.

    It's unfortunate though that she's kinda turned into Tuktamysheva, with excellent consistency and scoring potential, but then loses it halfway through the season following her uber-consistent season. I certainly don't think anyone can count her out, particularly for the Russian title. Also bear in mind that she made the Grand Prix final, and was the most successful Russian on the Grand Prix circuit last year.
    I always did find her overscored as a junior--frankly, her jumps were never fast, high, quick, or flow-y enough to consistently net +1 or +2 GOE. If that were the case, then Gracie and Yuna should be scoring straight +3's for their jumps. And the only truly impressive aspect of Julia's spins was the flexibility in the Biellmann and I-spin which, as you say, will be a challenge to maintain through puberty. Does her combination spin at 2012 Junior Worlds really deserve higher GOE than Yuna's at 2013 Worlds?

    Also, it is the case that senior international judges are far more tenacious than junior judges in handing out positive GOE like candy. Julia didn't have a single competition this season that even came close in score to the TES she netted last season. She definitely shouldn't be scoring close to or higher than Ashley Wagner, who, for all her lack of a 3-3, has the PCS to bridge the gap. Unfortunately, we didn't see much of Lipnitskaia this last season due to her injury, and she wasn't at top form at either Russian Junior Nationals or Junior Worlds.

    To me, both Tukt's and Lipnitskaia's tendency to falter on one of their two programs (for Tukt, it's the SP; for Lipnitskaia, it's the FS) makes their contention for the Olympic spot risky. Lipnitskaia is the far more consistent of the two--she's even more consistent than Sotnikova, but nowhere as mature in terms of quality of skating--but if she can't keep up the momentum and peak at the right time like Radionova, then the federation might have to reconsider if they should send her. It's assumed that she'll go to Sochi if she skates well (places top two) at RN, but we can never be sure.

    I think I mentioned this earlier, but Lipnitskaia qualified for the GPF with a pretty watered-down field (no Yuna, no Carolina, Gold was a wreck at SC, Osmond only had one GP, Sotnikova was falling left and right). The fight to be in the top six on the GP circuit will be much more representative of each girl's place in the pecking order this season. We can discount Julia coming close to/beating Yuna, Carolina, and Mao. Julia's best probably won't be enough to beat Gold or Wagner with solid TES and rising PCS, Osmond with two strong skates, or Tukt/Sotnikova's Euro skates.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    If her jumps were microscopic, there's no way she'd be able to do 3Z+3T.
    Yamaguchi could. Julia's jumps are small and she can only do them because she hasn't finished growing yet.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    I always did find her overscored as a junior--frankly, her jumps were never fast, high, quick, or flow-y enough to consistently net +1 or +2 GOE. If that were the case, then Gracie and Yuna should be scoring straight +3's for their jumps. And the only truly impressive aspect of Julia's spins was the flexibility in the Biellmann and I-spin which, as you say, will be a challenge to maintain through puberty. Does her combination spin at 2012 Junior Worlds really deserve higher GOE than Yuna's at 2013 Worlds?

    Also, it is the case that senior international judges are far more tenacious than junior judges in handing out positive GOE like candy. Julia didn't have a single competition this season that even came close in score to the TES she netted last season. She definitely shouldn't be scoring close to or higher than Ashley Wagner, who, for all her lack of a 3-3, has the PCS to bridge the gap. Unfortunately, we didn't see much of Lipnitskaia this last season due to her injury, and she wasn't at top form at either Russian Junior Nationals or Junior Worlds.

    To me, both Tukt's and Lipnitskaia's tendency to falter on one of their two programs (for Tukt, it's the SP; for Lipnitskaia, it's the FS) makes their contention for the Olympic spot risky. Lipnitskaia is the far more consistent of the two--she's even more consistent than Sotnikova, but nowhere as mature in terms of quality of skating--but if she can't keep up the momentum and peak at the right time like Radionova, then the federation might have to reconsider if they should send her. It's assumed that she'll go to Sochi if she skates well (places top two) at RN, but we can never be sure.

    I think I mentioned this earlier, but Lipnitskaia qualified for the GPF with a pretty watered-down field (no Yuna, no Carolina, Gold was a wreck at SC, Osmond only had one GP, Sotnikova was falling left and right). The fight to be in the top six on the GP circuit will be much more representative of each girl's place in the pecking order this season. We can discount Julia coming close to/beating Yuna, Carolina, and Mao. Julia's best probably won't be enough to beat Gold or Wagner with solid TES and rising PCS, Osmond with two strong skates, or Tukt/Sotnikova's Euro skates.
    Sotnikova was only good at euros and she still singled a flip. Tuktamisheva was only good at euros and Russian nationals. I totally agree that Julia isn't really competitive with so many people who were at 2013 worlds but the issue is can she beat Adelina and Liza and that's a big yes!! But is the idea that Russia will only pick Adelina and Liza no matter how they are skating later this year because they were at 2013 euros and worlds even though both Liza and Adelina kind of embarrassed themselves at worlds being outskated by so many others their own age? None of them are competitive for medals and are barely barely in the top 10 so why are they so locked in? Why not Julia? Or Gosviani? Or leonova or makarova? Who are Liza and Adelina?

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Sotnikova was only good at euros and she still singled a flip. Tuktamisheva was only good at euros and Russian nationals. I totally agree that Julia isn't really competitive with so many people who were at 2013 worlds but the issue is can she beat Adelina and Liza and that's a big yes!! But is the idea that Russia will only pick Adelina and Liza no matter how they are skating later this year because they were at 2013 euros and worlds even though both Liza and Adelina kind of embarrassed themselves at worlds being outskated by so many others their own age? None of them are competitive for medals and are barely barely in the top 10 so why are they so locked in? Why not Julia? Or Gosviani? Or leonova or makarova? Who are Liza and Adelina?
    I don't think anyone has suggested that. Again, we'll have to see where these three are when the GP starts, but as of now, Liza and Adelina both have personal bests higher than Julia's (and for imperfect skates, no less). Both Adelina and Liza are capable of scoring high even with a few mistakes, as evidenced by Euros. Julia, OTOH, has to be near-perfect to stay in the running--CoC and TEB are prime examples of this.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    None of them are competitive for medals and are barely barely in the top 10 so why are they so locked in? Why not Julia? Or Gosviani? Or leonova or makarova? Who are Liza and Adelina?
    You seem to have a very personal distaste for Liza and Adelina, but they are clearly the best Russian ladies at the moment. Why? They were the best Russians at Nationals, the best Russians at Euros, and the best Russians at Worlds. The other women are either past their prime (Makarova and Leonova) or too inexperienced to be counted on to perform better than Liza and Adelina. Julia, for example, has seen her level decline in the last year based on both results and scores. Gosviani has virtually no senior experience at all. I don't see how you can create a scenario in your mind in which the top two aren't clear.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    You seem to have a very personal distaste for Liza and Adelina, but they are clearly the best Russian ladies at the moment. Why? They were the best Russians at Nationals, the best Russians at Euros, and the best Russians at Worlds. The other women are either past their prime (Makarova and Leonova) or too inexperienced to be counted on to perform better than Liza and Adelina. Julia, for example, has seen her level decline in the last year based on both results and scores. Gosviani has virtually no senior experience at all. I don't see how you can create a scenario in your mind in which the top two aren't clear.
    This.

    Yes, we all understand that Adelina and Liza had less-than-ideal skates at Worlds. It's time to accept those performances as non-representative of their skating abilities, and to look forward to what we all hope they can accomplish on the GP circuit in the fall.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    To be fair it's her 2A that's the really microscopic jump. If her jumps were microscopic, there's no way she'd be able to do 3Z+3T.
    Many pre-pubescent girls can do small, barely-off-the-ground 3-3s -because they are so tiny and rotate so quickly. Caroline Zhang did 3-3s before she hit puberty. She can’t do them anymore. Once she grew, she lost the ability to rotate as quickly in the air. And I suspect that will happen to Julia as her body matures as well.

  11. #56
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    I find it funny who says Julia cant make the Team when Sotnikova and Tuk were not even hot soup
    even with Julia's struggles she was the highest ranking Russian going to the GPF, she knows her weakness
    in her interview she said what is done is done she will start anew for the season

    Sotnikova has unstable jumps, can't barely get a proper 3-3 rotated, unstable flip and a flutzer
    Tuk has good technique but she has issues with her body type and bombs the sp almost always
    Julia 2A may be terrible but the rest is not, microscopic ? see Elena Radionova and Satoko Miyahara - they have the microscopic jumps

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    You seem to have a very personal distaste for Liza and Adelina, but they are clearly the best Russian ladies at the moment. Why? They were the best Russians at Nationals, the best Russians at Euros, and the best Russians at Worlds. The other women are either past their prime (Makarova and Leonova) or too inexperienced to be counted on to perform better than Liza and Adelina. Julia, for example, has seen her level decline in the last year based on both results and scores. Gosviani has virtually no senior experience at all. I don't see how you can create a scenario in your mind in which the top two aren't clear.
    best at Worlds who barely got top 10 ? Julia had 3 injuries last season if your decline means getting into gpf and almost winning jr worlds again against tiny jump Radionova
    then I'd be happy to have that statement as a decline, lol

    Adelina is not the best, she cant even Osmond
    Tuk is a a guarantee to bomb the sp

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    You seem to have a very personal distaste for Liza and Adelina, but they are clearly the best Russian ladies at the moment. Why? They were the best Russians at Nationals, the best Russians at Euros, and the best Russians at Worlds. The other women are either past their prime (Makarova and Leonova) or too inexperienced to be counted on to perform better than Liza and Adelina. Julia, for example, has seen her level decline in the last year based on both results and scores. Gosviani has virtually no senior experience at all. I don't see how you can create a scenario in your mind in which the top two aren't clear.
    Nothing could be further from the truth! Adelina and Liza are not so great as to be totally invulnerable to challenges from other skaters such as Julia or Alena. Julia did not really see her level decline because her last performance at jr worlds was really great! Adelina and Liza saw tremendous collapses in skating quality after euros. They both bombed both worlds and the wtt which matched their bombing of gP events earlier in the season-moreso in the case of sotnikova than tuktamisheva who did make the gpf but then had that sp disaster there. They did show themselves as the best Russians at the Russian nationals but after that point and euros have delivered such terrible performances that already booking them tickets to Sochi is ridiculous!

    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    This.

    Yes, we all understand that Adelina and Liza had less-than-ideal skates at Worlds. It's time to accept those performances as non-representative of their skating abilities, and to look forward to what we all hope they can accomplish on the GP circuit in the fall.
    Their performances were way below their best level but very representative of their seasons as a whole. Euros was the exception. The one international competition where they were both good. Their 2012-2013 seasons were terrible disasters. Nothing in their performances indicated Russia should be rushing to send them to Sochi especially over Julia or if Alena improves to her 2012 level or if someone else age eligible has a great comeback or skates well. Korobeynikova or makarova or whoever.

    Can sotnikova and tuktamisheva show they are actually worthy of Sochi before they are sent? Lol why send them if other Russians are better and they show no improvement over their disasters at worlds and the wtt!

  14. #59
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    my only wish for ladies Russian team is just that tuktamysheva will quanlify for team. because I am interested in only her performance among russian babies...

  15. #60
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    Liza because when the pressure is on and the weight is up, she gonna switch her emotion off and throw it down!

    Between Adelina and sourpuss, obviously Adelina. If Alena shows up in good form, she can take Adelina's spot.

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