Which 2 Russian Ladies will make the Olympic Team? | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Which 2 Russian Ladies will make the Olympic Team?

AliCruise

Spectator
Joined
May 14, 2013
Very true. If neither Liza or Adelina are good enough for the gpf why even bother making their paths to the Olympics easy? Julia and Liza made the gpf with no Yuna and no Carolina in the gp and no katelyn who only had one gp. The idea that Liza and Adelina deserve or would be best for the Olympics is absurd. Both of them bombed worlds horribly. So if at the end of the gp Julia is a higher ranking skater then that should factor. Adelina had a horrible gp season and then a horrible worlds and showed she can barely compete as a senior and beat girls her own age. Same thing with Liza. Can't even beat girls their own age.

The way FSF of Russia thinks of the situation at the Worlds is completely different. Piseev and Gorshkov are almost satisfied with their debut so I wouldn't call it that absurd.
Liza and Adelina CAN beat ALMOST everyone if they are self-collected and the judges put them scores they deserve. It's only puberty and FSF of Russia that does not stand for Russian sportsmen at all to blame.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Nothing could be further from the truth! Adelina and Liza are not so great as to be totally invulnerable to challenges from other skaters such as Julia or Alena. Julia did not really see her level decline because her last performance at jr worlds was really great! Adelina and Liza saw tremendous collapses in skating quality after euros. They both bombed both worlds and the wtt which matched their bombing of gP events earlier in the season-moreso in the case of sotnikova than tuktamisheva who did make the gpf but then had that sp disaster there. They did show themselves as the best Russians at the Russian nationals but after that point and euros have delivered such terrible performances that already booking them tickets to Sochi is ridiculous!

definitely its wide open, in 2011 scenario might have been different but next year whomever delivers the best and makes gpf and euros will get the ticket, also Julia didnt have a disaster, still with 3 injuries she beat Tuk and Adelina's season medlaing in 2 gp and making to gpf before being injured again she only lost jr. world because of a double salchow
 

vera01

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
best at Worlds who barely got top 10 ? Julia had 3 injuries last season if your decline means getting into gpf and almost winning jr worlds again against tiny jump Radionova
then I'd be happy to have that statement as a decline, lol

Adelina is not the best, she cant even Osmond
Tuk is a a guarantee to bomb the sp

Still, Adelina's and Liza's score at Worlds was higher than Julia's Jr.Worlds score. And no, unfortunately, Radionova is not going to be Julia's rival right now-Radionova can't go to Sochi since she's too young. Julia would be competing against Yuna/Caro/Gracie, who all have much bigger jumps than Julia's, not Radionova(who at this point does have small jumps).

Julia has a lip problem, and she's yet to face the worst part of puberty. I don't think she has a stable technique for all of her jumps, which is really important if you want to keep all of your jumps. Like I said before, Liza/Adelina who had much better jumps as a junior than Julia couldn't land their 3Lz+3T/3Lz+3Los consistently when they faced the worst part.

Adelina did beat Osmond at WTT-she got a score 20 points higher than Osmond's total score.

I find it funny who says Julia cant make the Team when Sotnikova and Tuk were not even hot soup
even with Julia's struggles she was the highest ranking Russian going to the GPF, she knows her weakness
in her interview she said what is done is done she will start anew for the season

Sotnikova has unstable jumps, can't barely get a proper 3-3 rotated, unstable flip and a flutzer
Tuk has good technique but she has issues with her body type and bombs the sp almost always
Julia 2A may be terrible but the rest is not, microscopic ? see Elena Radionova and Satoko Miyahara - they have the microscopic jumps

Liza at her first senior GP season won both of her GP events. Julia won silver and bronze and that was a competition without Yuna/Caro and with Mao without 3A.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I am not sure but it won't matter all of them are so unstable, growing and artistically immature at this point. I would say Adelina and????I wonder what leonova will do and Tut? Russia is not in great shape heading into the olympics.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I wish the Russian women brought their performances from Nationals to Euros and Worlds. They tend to do so much better there. Perhaps this might translate to better results in Sochi.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Still, Adelina's and Liza's score at Worlds was higher than Julia's Jr.Worlds score. And no, unfortunately, Radionova is not going to be Julia's rival right now-Radionova can't go to Sochi since she's too young. Julia would be competing against Yuna/Caro/Gracie, who all have much bigger jumps than Julia's, not Radionova(who at this point does have small jumps).

Julia has a lip problem, and she's yet to face the worst part of puberty. I don't think she has a stable technique for all of her jumps, which is really important if you want to keep all of your jumps. Like I said before, Liza/Adelina who had much better jumps as a junior than Julia couldn't land their 3Lz+3T/3Lz+3Los consistently when they faced the worst part.

Adelina did beat Osmond at WTT-she got a score 20 points higher than Osmond's total score.


do we have to start again
Julia has a terirble 2A but to say all her jumps :rolleye:
Adelina has Flutz, cannot rotate the 2nd 3T combo, a very unstable Flip, an ok loop
Julia did get 3-3 and got them almost all of them except jr.worlds compared to Sotnikova's first senior who falls on 3-3 combos

Adelina and Tuk got higher score with more lenient scoring
Jr. Worlds had one of the strictest results, nothing comparable
I would say we really wont know, next gp we will find out who is in good shape
I'd take Julia over Adelina's 3-3UR and 3Flip falls , Tuk's SP and alarming weight issue.

Liza at her first senior GP season won both of her GP events. Julia won silver and bronze and that was a competition without Yuna/Caro and with Mao without 3A.

won in TEB with Carolina in watered down content almost the same
there was no Yuna either in 2011
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
The way FSF of Russia thinks of the situation at the Worlds is completely different. Piseev and Gorshkov are almost satisfied with their debut so I wouldn't call it that absurd.
Liza and Adelina CAN beat ALMOST everyone if they are self-collected and the judges put them scores they deserve. It's only puberty and FSF of Russia that does not stand for Russian sportsmen at all to blame.

I am surprised that the Russian federation would be satisfied. Everyone knows all the older girls were aggressively pushed out for these young girls and how that was the right decision as all the older skaters were truly getting bad results. So it can't be trying to protect themselves and stop from getting fired as there was no other choice! So they should just be honest and try to get sotnikova and tuktamisheva back into good results. Apply some pressure to them!! This whole thing of being hands off and applying no pressure and expressing satisfaction has to go!

definitely its wide open, in 2011 scenario might have been different but next year whomever delivers the best and makes gpf and euros will get the ticket, also Julia didnt have a disaster, still with 3 injuries she beat Tuk and Adelina's season medlaing in 2 gp and making to gpf before being injured again she only lost jr. world because of a double salchow

A good point was made how it could be a huge longshot for any Russian in their current condition to make the GPF! Maybe only Julia has a chance. So it it would not be who makes the GPF but maybe who can be an official alternate! Or who had the highest points and who was not an alternate.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
The way FSF of Russia thinks of the situation at the Worlds is completely different. Piseev and Gorshkov are almost satisfied with their debut so I wouldn't call it that absurd.
Liza and Adelina CAN beat ALMOST everyone if they are self-collected and the judges put them scores they deserve. It's only puberty and FSF of Russia that does not stand for Russian sportsmen at all to blame.

I'd make a small amendment to that--Liza and Adelina can beat everyone in Russia (yes, even Julia, although she's one of my top two picks for the Olympic team) if they're clean. Russia doesn't have another jumper like Adelina, and the only lady with better interpretation is Alena. Liza, when she does hold it together, is something else entirely.

The fact remains that Julia will very likely face a challenge in holding onto her jumps after this next phase of puberty. I wouldn't say that her jumps are tiny--they're most definitely larger than Elena's, who's around the same age--but she does have a borderline 2A and doesn't jump "big" at all. She may become another Mirai with a UR issue in the future if she doesn't start drilling proper technique NOW.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
But Adelina is the one urderrotating jumps and singling flips now not Julia. She needs to be drilling jump technique.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
The fact remains that Julia will very likely face a challenge in holding onto her jumps after this next phase of puberty. I wouldn't say that her jumps are tiny--they're most definitely larger than Elena's, who's around the same age--but she does have a borderline 2A and doesn't jump "big" at all. She may become another Mirai with a UR issue in the future if she doesn't start drilling proper technique NOW.

Although I think Liza is a clear favorite for the team over Julia, it is only because I strongly believe that Julia will not have her jumps next year. A lot of people forget that, as juniors, Liza and Adelina were nailing 3/3 lutz combos regularly too; I'm not sure why so many people think Julia will be immune from the same growing pains when she has arguably the most "junior" jump technique of the three.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Pogorilaya and Korobeynikova if she brings back her 2011-2012 content are both better jumpers than Adelina IMO. They can both rotate their 3-3 combos, Pogorilaya has consistent 3lz-3t with no edge call and no URs. I tend to think that if she grows into her legs this summer and has a more mature appearance come the fall, and competes on the GP and keeps up her tough content and consistency like last season, her PCS will actually be decent which combined with consistent delivery of tough content could be enough to throw her into the mix for the Sochi team. If Korobeynikova could regain her 2012 Euros form then she's also extremely dangerous to the other girls, particularly if she can develop more speed. These two also have the long-limbed willowy body type going for them. Idk I would like to argue the team is more open for grabs than others seem to think.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Although I think Liza is a clear favorite for the team over Julia, it is only because I strongly believe that Julia will not have her jumps next year. A lot of people forget that, as juniors, Liza and Adelina were nailing 3/3 lutz combos regularly too; I'm not sure why so many people think Julia will be immune from the same growing pains when she has arguably the most "junior" jump technique of the three.

I think Julia over Adelina because Adelina has lost 3/3 and 2A/3T! She no longer has triple triple or 2a/3t. Julia still does. Julia is also pretty consistent in both SP and LP so will have SP advantage over Liza. The skater who has turned into mirai nagasu is adelina with her URS!
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I think Julia over Adelina because Adelina has lost 3/3 and 2A/3T! She no longer has triple triple or 2a/3t. Julia still does. Julia is also pretty consistent in both SP and LP so will have SP advantage over Liza. The skater who has turned into mirai nagasu is adelina with her URS!

Julia can possibly outjump Adelina NOW, and Elena R can outjump both NOW. But the Olympics isn't today, it's in 9 months. That's a lot of growing Julia has coming. Do you think Julia is not going to grow at all, or do you think she jumps big enough that when she goes through puberty she will still be able to do the jumps? One of those two things have to be true for her to be competitive next season.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Julia can possibly outjump Adelina NOW, and Elena R can outjump both NOW. But the Olympics isn't today, it's in 9 months. That's a lot of growing Julia has coming. Do you think Julia is not going to grow at all, or do you think she jumps big enough that when she goes through puberty she will still be able to do the jumps? One of those two things have to be true for her to be competitive next season.

I am sure Julia will do some growing and changing in the next months and before Euros and December Russian nationals. But the issue is does it prevent her from doing the jumps completely or just makes it so that she is like Adelina with urs and single flips a lot of the time? So if she starts ur-ing or singling flips like adelina adelina will have the PCS advantage! But what about the girls who may not be ur-ing or singling jumps like a growing Julia going through puberty might do or what Adelina is doing right now. Will Adelina grow out of ur-ing or singling or falling on flips? I guess that is possible too. Adelina could fix her urs and Julia may get urs. Or there is just minimal change. What about Leonova improving too if both Adelina and Julia are dealing with ur-ing and not having any triple triples. Though I did say Adelina will have the PCS advantage if both her and Julia are without triple triples or fully rotated triples. So that is why if Tuktamisheva gets her SP problems in order she could do well too. With her growing she does not ur - she just messes up her SP's all the time. So Korobeynikova and Leonova could come right in and knock all those girls out maybe? There are so many possibilities.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
I think Julia over Adelina because Adelina has lost 3/3 and 2A/3T! She no longer has triple triple or 2a/3t. Julia still does. Julia is also pretty consistent in both SP and LP so will have SP advantage over Liza. The skater who has turned into mirai nagasu is adelina with her URS!

Mirai has a UR problem due to puberty, which broadened her body until it became very difficult for her to fully rotate triple jumps. She was just a slim little kid when she skated at the Olympics in 2010, not unlike Julia is now. What I'm saying is that Julia, after experiencing body changes, may be a similar situation as Mirai in that she'll find herself in a bigger, slower body with a need to rework her technique. Adelina, who has already faced and passed the most difficult stage of puberty, doesn't have the same problem.

Do you not understand what drivingmissdaisy is saying? Liza and Adelina were both big, consistent jumpers before they hit puberty--they were better than Julia is now, actually. If they're struggling with their jumps even after having had excellent basics, imagine how Julia, with her questionable technique, could fare. Fast rotations and little height won't be conducive with a post-puberty body.
 

Selene

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
I think Julia over Adelina because Adelina has lost 3/3 and 2A/3T! She no longer has triple triple or 2a/3t. Julia still does. Julia is also pretty consistent in both SP and LP so will have SP advantage over Liza. The skater who has turned into mirai nagasu is adelina with her URS!

Adelina will be on the Olympic team because the Russian Federation loves her. They give her ridiculously high PCS at National competitions. So, she will be held up, regardless of whether she hits the jumps or not.

I do agree that she needs to fix her jump technique. Her flip is inconsistent because of her terrible entry (the edge wobbles back and forth) and she can no longer rotate 3-3s or 2A-3Ts because she lands so pitch forward on the first jump that she doesn't have the flow necessary to rotate the second triple jump. She may need to alter her programs so that she's attempting less ambitious technical content. But I still think that her other qualities as a skater are so good that she should make the Olympic team over Julia and her tiny jumps that she will lose after puberty.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Mirai has a UR problem due to puberty, which broadened her body until it became very difficult for her to fully rotate triple jumps. She was just a slim little kid when she skated at the Olympics in 2010, not unlike Julia is now. What I'm saying is that Julia, after experiencing body changes, may be a similar situation as Mirai in that she'll find herself in a bigger, slower body with a need to rework her technique. Adelina, who has already faced and passed the most difficult stage of puberty, doesn't have the same problem.

Do you not understand what drivingmissdaisy is saying? Liza and Adelina were both big, consistent jumpers before they hit puberty--they were better than Julia is now, actually. If they're struggling with their jumps even after having had excellent basics, imagine how Julia, with her questionable technique, could fare. Fast rotations and little height won't be conducive with a post-puberty body.

I get what you are saying about puberty causing underrotatings due to body changes for Julia. So it is just bad technique causing Adelina underrotating all her triple toes in combo? If some underrotation problems are caused by puberty and others caused by bad technique they are both problems. So Adelina needs to fix all her technique on triple toes or double axels or triple lutz and triple flip. She needs to do that by December. If she doesn't and she is underrotating due to bad technique and Julia is uderrotating due to puberty and growth Adelina has the PCS to bail her out but she's still not going to do well if other girls out jump her but don't have her PCS? If Adelina underrotates all her tirple toe attempts and singles 1 or all of her flips then her PCS wont bail her out.

Adelina will be on the Olympic team because the Russian Federation loves her. They give her ridiculously high PCS at National competitions. So, she will be held up, regardless of whether she hits the jumps or not.

I do agree that she needs to fix her jump technique. Her flip is inconsistent because of her terrible entry (the edge wobbles back and forth) and she can no longer rotate 3-3s or 2A-3Ts because she lands so pitch forward on the first jump that she doesn't have the flow necessary to rotate the second triple jump. She may need to alter her programs so that she's attempting less ambitious technical content. But I still think that her other qualities as a skater are so good that she should make the Olympic team over Julia and her tiny jumps that she will lose after puberty.

I noted above that Adelina may get great PCS from the Russian nationals judges. Maybe the best PCS at Russian nationals. But if she is singling her flips and underrotating all her triple toes and flutzing those are all terrible problems. What about girls who wont flutz or ur or single flips?

But again I don't understand the difference if Julia will lose her jumps because of puberty and adelina because of the terrible technique she has on flutz flip double axel triple toe? Adelina has reached the bad jump stage. She is there! She is so inconsistent and can't do 3/3 or 2/3 or flip or lutz!
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Or maybe you say Adelina will be < and Julia will be <<! Is that it? If so I get how Adelina could still contend more than Julia but what about skaters with no < or <<.
 
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