Which 2 Russian Ladies will make the Olympic Team? | Page 9 | Golden Skate

Which 2 Russian Ladies will make the Olympic Team?

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
The issue was Mao rotated 2 triples in that fs! 2 triples. It's not like Julia did poorly. Mao basically eliminated triples from her coc skate and still won because of goe and pcs. I know she won based on goe and pcs. Goe and pcs was more important than jumps when it came to Mao vs Julia. I don't compare her jw 2012 fs to her coc one because she did no triple triples in the jw fs It was all 2a 3t 2t and 2a 3t in the fs. So that is why Julia was not so flawless and amazing but certainly did more than 2 triples in her free skate.

Kosnter also ended her euros fs with two double salchows and still beat both Liza and Adelina but neither of them was good as Julia at coc with Adelina singling that flip and Liza having pcs problems and not being at the highest spin and goe levels.
 

venlac

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
how Elena or Lipnitskaia win top girls? they have higher bv than top girls, and more consistency, but their almost all jumps are not deserve GOE. their performances are so juniorish and the most weak among youngsters.
If i think about gold or sotnikova, It may be more likely. But though, even that would be very difficult for them, too.
 

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Mao basically eliminated triples from her coc skate and still won because of goe and pcs[/QUOTE]

Yes, she planned and landed only double jumps in China :rolleye: Mao only doubled a jump in her LP, she went for every triples she planned. She was hit with multiple URs but you make it sound like she did it on purpose which is absurd. I fail to see how she "basically eliminated triples from her coc skate".

I think Liza and Adelina will be on the team. Julia might do it if one of these 2 don't perform. Julia is a big question mark at this point and even if I trust her mental strength and determination, Sochi might be too soon for her. I think Alena is done (can't wait for her to prove me wrong though). The same goes for Ksenia. With all the problems Adelina has, she was the best russian ladies skater in the second half of this season and she is the only one to get the PCS to at least have a shot at the podium if others make mistakes.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I didn't say she planned or wanted to do so few triples just what the result was! Virtually all triples gone and she still won! Just like kostner turned her triple salchows double and still won. This is just Mao and kostner Yuna usually doesn't make so many bad mistakes.

I predict the team will be Julia and Adelina but adelina's flips could make it Liza and Julia. Julia is number one. The most likely.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
how Elena or Lipnitskaia win top girls? they have higher bv than top girls, and more consistency, but their almost all jumps are not deserve GOE. their performances are so juniorish and the most weak among youngsters.
If i think about gold or sotnikova, It may be more likely. But though, even that would be very difficult for them, too.

It's even impossible for sotnikova too. Kostner did 2 double salchows and that was worth more than adelina's single flip.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
As for Osmond and Gold, yes, I would agree they have better skating skills, bigger jumps, and obviously a lot more power than Radionova, primarily because they are strongly built women while Radionova is a 14 year old waif. Osmond maybe has better interpretation, but she's a bit truckdriver-ish still, and Gold's "artistry" consists of looking like a dear in the headlights while having a beauty pageant smile permanently plastered on her face. Maturity is not everything. Plus what about Li, she is a better example to compare to Radionova anyways and she has done really well this season, with decent PCS.

"Truckdriver-ish"? What does that even mean?

If you watch Gold's performances across the season, you'll see that her artistry has improved significantly--at least, to the point where she can out-score Radionova in P/I. PCS is based on SS more than artistry, and Radionova, with her slight build, physically can't project more strength than girls who have already gone through puberty. Case in point: Li didn't get as high PCS as Gold or Osmond at Worlds, even with her "perfect" seven-triple FS, simply because she doesn't have a lot of power. And her interpretation is better than Radionova's.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
"Truckdriver-ish"? What does that even mean?

If you watch Gold's performances across the season, you'll see that her artistry has improved significantly--at least, to the point where she can out-score Radionova in P/I. PCS is based on SS more than artistry, and Radionova, with her slight build, physically can't project more strength than girls who have already gone through puberty. Case in point: Li didn't get as high PCS as Gold or Osmond at Worlds, even with her "perfect" seven-triple FS, simply because she doesn't have a lot of power. And her interpretation is better than Radionova's.

Truckdriver is someone who has a clunky, unrefined movement across the ice. I often feel like Osmond and Gold seem out of control at times when they skate, the jumps are big but sometimes wonky, Gold sometimes doesn't manage her speed and while Osmond has a great feel for the music, I sometimes get the impression that she just needs to be reined in a bit, because she has so much energy, which is great, but sometimes it comes off as seeming like she is having a caffeine or sugar high. I'm trying to explain this but obviously it is a bit hard to understand. Lack of control is maybe the best way to put it? The reckless abandon aspect makes these girls very watchable, but at times it's a bit scary, at least for me.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
You are right she did skate well. The point was anyway that Julia could rotate like 10 triples to maos 3 over sp and lp and still lose due to pcs and spin steps goe. Many judges disagreed about Julia being tone deaf and she did not get Zeroes or even below 5 in The relevant pcs categories for music.

Julia's jumps were so wonky and laboured looking at CoC, and there were a few mistakes, that's why she didn't win. If her jumps had been to her usual quality she likely would have won but they were all eeked out and basically at a standstill which really hurt her GOEs, along with the messed up level 1 spin, Julia usually always gets level 4 plus mad GOEs on her spins so that was a big loss of points there. Elena has better jumps than Julia anyways, I was rewatching videos of Julia from the GP and her jumps were so tiny and muscled, really not very pretty. Elena's jumps are quite nice. However, at JW, Julia's jumps looked a lot better again, back to the way they were when she was a junior, so that is why I still think she makes the Sochi team.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The issue was Mao rotated 2 triples in that fs! 2 triples. It's not like Julia did poorly. Mao basically eliminated triples from her coc skate and still won because of goe and pcs. I know she won based on goe and pcs. Goe and pcs was more important than jumps when it came to Mao vs Julia. I don't compare her jw 2012 fs to her coc one because she did no triple triples in the jw fs It was all 2a 3t 2t and 2a 3t in the fs. So that is why Julia was not so flawless and amazing but certainly did more than 2 triples in her free skate.

Kosnter also ended her euros fs with two double salchows and still beat both Liza and Adelina but neither of them was good as Julia at coc with Adelina singling that flip and Liza having pcs problems and not being at the highest spin and goe levels.

To be fair, both examples you've mentioned Asada and Kostner have been lucky with their wins this season. Asada definitely should have lost NHK and it's not like she had a stellar win at CoC, barely beating out a fresh-out-of-juniors Lipnitskaia (and a non-flawless Julia, at that). Kostner arguably shouldn't have won Euros but like Asada her PCS guaranteed it (along with Sotnikova's major error on the flip).
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
To be fair, both examples you've mentioned Asada and Kostner have been lucky with their wins this season. Asada definitely should have lost NHK and it's not like she had a stellar win at CoC, barely beating out a fresh-out-of-juniors Lipnitskaia (and a non-flawless Julia, at that). Kostner arguably shouldn't have won Euros but like Asada her PCS guaranteed it (along with Sotnikova's major error on the flip).

Mao lacks a 3-3 in both programs and didn't bring back the 3A until 4CC. Julia has a consistent 3-3, as well as a 2A-3T-2T, that she may or may not hold on to after puberty. There's your point difference. Mao with her Worlds jump layout would have been miles ahead of Julia.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Julia's jumps were so wonky and laboured looking at CoC, and there were a few mistakes, that's why she didn't win. If her jumps had been to her usual quality she likely would have won but they were all eeked out and basically at a standstill which really hurt her GOEs, along with the messed up level 1 spin, Julia usually always gets level 4 plus mad GOEs on her spins so that was a big loss of points there. Elena has better jumps than Julia anyways, I was rewatching videos of Julia from the GP and her jumps were so tiny and muscled, really not very pretty. Elena's jumps are quite nice. However, at JW, Julia's jumps looked a lot better again, back to the way they were when she was a junior, so that is why I still think she makes the Sochi team.

Julia was credited 9 triples to maos 4!!! You are saying how bad and awful Julia but she did more than double amount of triples Mao did and Mao won because of pcs and goe on spins and steps. You can bash and criticize julias performance all day long but she still did really well on actually rotating her jumps. No falls either. No matter how much wonky gets deducted in goe or muscling or whatever words that actually means done and completed fully rotated without a fall it just shows how even if jumps are done pcs and goe rule more than completed jumps when you pit a vet with great pcs over a newcomer!! Julia did great and this whole thing is just about how it would be impossible for Julia sotnikova tuktamisheva radionova to beat one of any of the big three not to mention all 3. But regardless of how they would do against non Russians Julia can make the Olympic team no problem.
 

venlac

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
In next season, I hope some top skaters will have more consistency, more have skate near to clean. And I believe I am going to see more often veteran top skaters win with the high technical contents, not only PCS, unlike the previous season.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
The point I was trying to make is that Julia can skate a lot better than she did at CoC, where she nearly beat a flawed Mao. Therefore, she IS capable of beating Mao when she skates her best and Mao makes mistakes, that is all I'm trying to say. CoC was nowhere close to her best, she left lots of points on the table, and even so that was almost enough.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The point I was trying to make is that Julia can skate a lot better than she did at CoC, where she nearly beat a flawed Mao. Therefore, she IS capable of beating Mao when she skates her best and Mao makes mistakes, that is all I'm trying to say. CoC was nowhere close to her best, she left lots of points on the table, and even so that was almost enough.

Agreed. And CoC wasn't even Mao's worst skates of the season. Mao's performance is way better, but if I were a betting man when it came to jump consistency, I'd easily choose Julia over Mao or Kostner.
 

venlac

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
But not only for Mao and kostner, also Wagner, Suzuki, etc.. almost all old skaters in Top-ranked usually have less consistency than youngsters, and have low technical contents... this is a natural tendency in recent ladies....
because of the recent trend in the judgment - even if young skater have won in tes by large gap, they are not easy to win veteran skaters who have many mistakes, because of large gap in PCS. Even if old top skater have many mistakes, they always have PCS cushion.

But certainly, that would be better in next season - Mao probably will bring a 3A more consistently, Caro would do 3F-3T and maybe she will be able to more consistence, etc..
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
The point I was trying to make is that Julia can skate a lot better than she did at CoC, where she nearly beat a flawed Mao. Therefore, she IS capable of beating Mao when she skates her best and Mao makes mistakes, that is all I'm trying to say. CoC was nowhere close to her best, she left lots of points on the table, and even so that was almost enough.

I don't agree Julia or anyone really can skate a lot better than Julia did at coc. There just isn't a lot of improvement from that level. She can do the same program cleaner but I don't see " a lot better" from those level of jumps being completed all at one competition.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
But not only for Mao and kostner, also Wagner, Suzuki, etc.. almost all old skaters in Top-ranked usually have less consistency than youngsters, and have low technical contents... this is a natural tendency in recent ladies....
because of the recent trend in the judgment - even if young skater have won in tes by large gap, they are not easy to win veteran skaters who have many mistakes, because of large gap in PCS. Even if old top skater have many mistakes, they always have PCS cushion.

But certainly, that would be better in next season - Mao probably will bring a 3A more consistently, Caro would do 3F-3T and maybe she will be able to more consistence, etc..

This is best shown by zijun li and her 69 Tes and 58 pcs compared to the 70 pcs of kostner.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
seriously I don't know what you are saying now

All you have to do is look at the protocol and see what jumps she did and were completed. I say she could have been cleaner but " a lot better" I dont think so!
 

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
All you have to do is look at the protocol and see what jumps she did and were completed. I say she could have been cleaner but " a lot better" I dont think so!

She could have some decent choreography, listen to the music, and maybe actually skating to the music would improve her PCS. Also, she can improve the overall quality of her jumps (GOE was very modest for her jumps at COC). Of course there are many skaters who can (and did) skate way better than Julia did at Cup of China, both from a technical point of view (Yuna ticks all the boxes for difficulty AND quality, something Julia lacks) and presentation wise (top 10 at worlds are capable to ourscore her on PCS currently).
 
Top