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Thread: Senior B scheduled for August in Australia!

  1. #46
    Custom Title christinaskater's Avatar
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    I wish Sydney could hold the Four Continents Championships in the future. We were supposed to have worlds here right?

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by christinaskater View Post
    I wish Sydney could hold the Four Continents Championships in the future. We were supposed to have worlds here right?
    I heard (a very loose rumour I read on a forum somewhere- not sure that it was true-correct me if i'm telling rubbish!) but Australia was supposed to host an event (it was in the mid 90's i think) but since none of the commercial channels wanted to host, they lost that chance.

  3. #48
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    The ISU moved 2000 Worlds from Brisbane to Nice, France in August 1999: http://web.archive.org/web/200110201...2422_7,00.html

  4. #49
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    It's disappointing that it happened but at least we are taking baby steps. One day the four continents has to come our way. hey, Australia (well Oceania) is one of the continents that makes up the four continents and we have facilities that are capable of hosting an international event (the funding is a different matter!)

  5. #50
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    Unfortunately, it's quite apparent this event can't attract enough athletes to make ISU points. I doubt anyone from other than AUS and NZ will participate.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Unfortunately, it's quite apparent this event can't attract enough athletes to make ISU points. I doubt anyone from other than AUS and NZ will participate.
    Where the hell did this come from?

    I know for a fact that there are some Japanese skaters coming. I don't know who else is coming just yet, but there's still a whole month til close of entries.

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    I don't know what "fact" you mean. In the case of NZ Winter games, only senior ladies event of four years ago gathered minimum skaters/nations to reward ranking points. In that season, Asian FS trophy was not held. This year, Asian "Open" Trophy is scheduled in Bangkok. It became a subject of ISU ranking points. Anyone who wants to earn points won't have motivation to travel Down Under. If Japan sent some skaters to AUS, it must be from friendship purposes (i.e. expecting some favors from the AUS federation when necessary).

    To reward points, at least 8 skaters from 5 countries are required for singles competitions.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    I don't know what "fact" you mean. In the case of NZ Winter games, only senior ladies event of four years ago gathered minimum skaters/nations to reward ranking points. In that season, Asian FS trophy was not held. This year, Asian "Open" Trophy is scheduled in Bangkok. It became a subject of ISU ranking points. Anyone who wants to earn points won't have motivation to travel Down Under. If Japan sent some skaters to AUS, it must be from friendship purposes (i.e. expecting some favors from the AUS federation when necessary).

    To reward points, at least 8 skaters from 5 countries are required for singles competitions.
    Oh, I see. You're using the old "talk down the opposition" trick. Well it won't work. Australia WILL have a Senior B regardless of whether the organisers of the Asian Trophy like it or not!

  9. #54
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    Surely skaters from malaysia, singapore, phillipines will attend. Maybe a chinese dance team aswell is what ive heard

  10. #55
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    Communication No. 1629

    1.4 International Senior Competitions, provided there are minimum 8 single skaters, respectively 6 Ice Dance couples out of four ISU Members present respectively 5 Pairs out of three ISU Members.
    1.5 Events, mentioned under paragraph 1.4, in which the Technical Panel (Technical Controller and the two (2) Technical Specialists) are from three (3) different ISU Members. (It is recommended that participating ISU Members, before entering their skaters, check with the organizing Members of International Competitions whether this requirement will be fulfilled).
    Limitations of paragraph 1.4 may be a problem (especially for Dance and Pairs) even at European Senior B's.

    For example, at 1st Ice Star (Minsk, Belarus, 2012) were only 7 Senior Men, 5 Senior Ladies, 4 Ice Dance couples, with no ranking points.
    Panel of Judges was of high level (including Mr. Alexander LAKERNIK), but lack of competitors.

  11. #56
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Rae35 posted this announcement on FSU:
    Australia and Canada sign Olympic agreement
    18 June 2013
    http://corporate.olympics.com.au/new...mpic-agreement
    Excerpt:
    "Australian athletes training hard for the 2014 Sochi Games will be the first to benefit with a special focus on winter sports cooperation with the world leading Canadians, ahead of the Games in Russia."

    Makes me wonder whether a ripple effect could be that Skate Canada will send one or more entrant(s)/judge(s)/official(s) to Skate DownUnder?

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Rae35 posted this announcement on FSU:
    Australia and Canada sign Olympic agreement
    18 June 2013
    http://corporate.olympics.com.au/new...mpic-agreement
    Excerpt:
    "Australian athletes training hard for the 2014 Sochi Games will be the first to benefit with a special focus on winter sports cooperation with the world leading Canadians, ahead of the Games in Russia."

    Makes me wonder whether a ripple effect could be that Skate Canada will send one or more entrant(s)/judge(s)/official(s) to Skate DownUnder?
    Much as I dislike him, I definitely wouldn't mind seeing Patrick Chan live.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Rae35 posted this announcement on FSU:
    Australia and Canada sign Olympic agreement
    18 June 2013
    http://corporate.olympics.com.au/new...mpic-agreement
    Excerpt:
    "Australian athletes training hard for the 2014 Sochi Games will be the first to benefit with a special focus on winter sports cooperation with the world leading Canadians, ahead of the Games in Russia."

    Makes me wonder whether a ripple effect could be that Skate Canada will send one or more entrant(s)/judge(s)/official(s) to Skate DownUnder?
    There are multiple Canadian skaters I would be very, very interested in seeing live! This is exciting news!

  14. #59
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    Definite: Japan

    Probable: Malaysia, Phillipines, Singapore

    Possible: China, Canada

    That's six countries outside our own, which wouldn't be bad. Would love the USFSA to send some skaters our way but I don't know if that'll happen. Team Russia? Are there some skaters that would like to come here? Perhaps...a preparation event for a skater coming back from a serious injury?

  15. #60
    I got your program components right here. Pepe Nero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Well, these are image issues that may turn off some potential participants or potential spectators. For people who love the feeling of gliding across the ice (directly or vicariously by watching), they're not very relevant. But you do have a point that people who haven't been exposed to the actual skating might resist getting the exposure if they're turned off by the externals.

    The externals develop by people who are actually doing the sport, according to their interests. And, yes, the external styles are sometimes a generation or two behind the trends in the wider world because today's skaters want to appeal to yesterday's skaters who are now judges. There's a long way up the competitive ladder before appealing to paying audiences is a consideration, and by that time the skaters themselves are used to the trends within the sport.





    I don't think you understand the economics of ice rinks.

    I'm reminded of a moment from my childhood. A skating parent asked the owner of the ice rink where we skated, who was also a coach, "What does it take to become a successful figure skater? Talent? Hard work?"

    His response: "Money and access to an ice rink."

    Figure skating started in northern Europe and North America because it could only be practiced on natural ice in cold weather. In places where there was no ice, there was no ice skating.

    Artificial rinks were invented in the late 19th century.
    They're expensive to build and maintain.

    It wasn't until the mid-20th century that indoor competition became the norm.

    To develop figure skating skills to the level that general audiences find entertaining takes many years, skating many hours per week, preferably starting at a very early age, on ice with comparatively few other figure skaters and not having to dodge the general public. This was even more true when school figures were central to competition, because they needed to be practiced on clean ice so the skaters could see the tracings.

    Hence, the sport was started and developed by people who had access to relatively empty ice on a regular basis. That cost money and requires much leisure time for practice, so the sport was developed by rich people in the areas (northern Europe, Canada, northern US) that already had traditions of ice skating on natural ice.

    They, along with speedskaters who came from similar areas with access to ice, created an organization (ISU) to regulate international competition in the sport.

    The ISU does not build or maintain rinks or teach people how to skate. Nor, for the most part, do national federations.

    That happens at a local level. A rink comes into existence because entrepreneurs think they can make money by providing ice for recreational purposes to the general public in their area and to hockey players and figure skaters or others with specialized sport goals. Or because a local government chooses to provide an ice rink as part of a program to provide recreational facilities to the community.

    Figure skating practice is not a cost-effective use of ice time, from a rink's point of view. A session open to the general public may hold a couple hundred paying customers. That's where they make their money.

    Hockey practices and figure skating practices may serve a couple dozen skaters at a time, which means that ice time costs more per individual.

    In order for an ice rink to be built in a part of the world that does not already have a history of interest in the sport, some entrepreneur needs to be willing to take the risk of introducing the general idea of ice skating to that local population and be willing to lose money at first while developing that local interest.

    Once the ice exists, some locals can start to learn and practice beginning figure skating skills. A local figure skating club can be organized. This will probably be necessary to negotiate ice time dedicated to figure skating, since the rink owners can make more money by keeping the ice open to everybody.

    As the years go by, especially if there's at least one good coach available, some of the figure skaters will go on to develop more advanced skills. They may be interested in competing.

    Local skaters have to put in the time practicing many hours a week for years. Someone has to pay for that ice time.
    If there is no history of advanced figure skating within this country, then foreign coaches will need to be brought in and/or the more ambitious local figure skaters will need to travel abroad to places they can get better instruction than is available locally. All this takes time and money.

    It may be time to join the national figure skating federation if one already exists, or organize one if it doesn't. A national federation can join the ISU and send skaters to international events at appropriate skill levels. Again, this takes money from within the federation.

    So when a new federation is formed in a new part of the world, it's usually because one or more rich families in that area have kids who are becoming serious enough skaters to go beyond the local level and are willing to invest many hours of volunteer time in addition to the money for training and travel necessary to get the kids to that level.

    In most cases, most of the money comes from the skaters' families.

    The only situations where national federations pay for the ice time and coaching, and travel when relevant, and choose talented poor kids to support in this way, tend to be communist countries that place high value on success in international sport. Which right now is primarily China.

    Otherwise, skating is a hobby, and one that becomes more and more expensive for participants the higher the level at which it's practiced.

    Figure skating is a time-intensive and money-intensive sport. Poor kids -- even poor white kids living in cold climates with several ice rinks in commuting distance -- are not going to become world-class figure skaters. Race isn't the issue -- access to practice ice, and good coaching, is the issue.

    I live in a part of the US that has a lot of immigrants and foreign nationals living here for stretches of several years. Some of their kids skate. Some of them get to levels they could never have dreamed of reaching back home someplace with no rinks or one rink with only a few hours of figure skating ice time per week. If they get to junior or senior level and if their family comes from a country that has a figure skating federation and if they can afford to take several overseas trips at their own expense, they may compete for that country.

    Getting to junior or senior skill level living in a place with one ice rink and four or five hours of figure skating ice time a week is a lot less likely.
    “My goodness,” and “wow.” Thank you for educating me, gkelly, on the economics of ice rinks. (I am only being half-way sarcastic.) Writing a post of that length would have taken me hours, so I appreciate your effort. (That is the non-sarcastic half. Sincerely.) But you have misjudged the nature of my critique, something that is wholly my fault, because I was not clear when I made my point.

    From a variety of diffuse bits of evidence (maybe I’ll write a book someday…maybe. I will be terse here.), it seems to me that the ISU is not especially interested in supporting potential figure skaters from countries lacking (imagined) majority white or Asian populations. (Even then, being black tends to be a disadvantage, in terms of program components. I have always thought Meite was/is given unfairly low PCs. (Look at my long-ago (for me) “Feminism and Figure Skating” post.) Also, one has to be from the “right” Asian countries. Imagine if Denis Ten were from Japan.)

    The ISU is not itself directly responsible (as far I know, but I am no historian) for the absence of rinks in, e.g., Africa. But as the agency whose express duty is surely to manage and promote the sport, it must (by “it must,” I mean, “no one could reasonably deny that it should”) have an affirmative, positive moral duty of justice (as all agents have (sorry for begging the question against moral nihilists and, maybe, libertarians)) to expand access to the sport among groups who tend to lack access. This is why I dispute the relevance of your response, which seems merely to consist of the point (the content of which is completely correct, in my view) that FS is expensive. Yeah, so what? That is no (moral) justification for making it accessible only to the already (relatively) privileged.

    My first couple of posts, to which you responded, gkelly, were half-baked, but I believe the essence of the point I meant to make is correct. Sorry for taking a long time to respond. The time to keep up with (i.e., respond to smart people’s responses to) the sometimes outrageous things I say on GS is a luxury for me, but something I thoroughly enjoy. I am eager to know your thoughts.

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