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Thread: 2013 - 2014 Russian skaters, rules, and events

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Old guard of Russia? lol the issue is can Anna beat Liza and Adelina and now it is yes.
    No, I meant the ones like Kostner, Asada, Suzuki,Kim etc. While Pogorilaya may manage to outjump the others within Russia to be sent to bigger international competitions (Europeans, Worlds), I don't think international judges would go with her while Kostner, Asada, Suzuki,Kim are competing. Against those skaters she would have no chance. But that will change when those will retire because she would be competing against others relatively young skaters whose PCS may not be that much higher than hers.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Please, Pogorilaya is much better than Shelepen already (and for awhile there, Shelepen was actually quite good). While I agree they have a number of similarities (3-3s, strong jumps, body type, etc.), in 3 months of international competition Pogorilaya put up a PB score 5 points higher (167+) than the PB it took Shelepen nearly 3 years to earn (162+). Plus, Anna medaled at JW on her first try while Polina went 3 times and never medaled (never exceeded the score Anna put up there either, and that was not even Anna skating anywhere close to her best). Plus I feel like although she is still gawky and sloppy at times, Anna's presentation as well as basics (speed, stroking, etc) are already better than Polina, you can tell from her PCS, Shelepen's was always so low until 2011-2012 season when she was really making strides, while Pogorilaya's PCS was always among the highest at the junior internationals, and even decent at senior nationals. Further, to be fair to Polina, if I'm being honest she really was doing quite well and improving a lot once she adjusted to her new height and before she went to Sokolovskaya and got injured.

    Anyways, if Adelina and Liza are having such issues with their jumps, then they should be able to get beaten by someone with lesser presentation landing their jumps, that's how the sport should work.
    I don't think Pogorilaya is so much better than Shelepen was some 2-3 years ago. Only time will show.

    And in regards to Adelina and Liza having such problems with jumps, you wish! Adelina has landed 3Lz-3L. Even with deduction for the edge it will count. And don't forget that now is still pre-season. Compare what Adelina skated with what Kaetlyn Osmond skated recently and you may notice that it is not much difference in not fully landing jumps pre season. Kaetlyn Osmond did not exactly shine either.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    No, I meant the ones like Kostner, Asada, Suzuki,Kim etc. While Pogorilaya may manage to outjump the others within Russia to be sent to bigger international competitions (Europeans, Worlds), I don't think international judges would go with her while Kostner, Asada, Suzuki,Kim are competing. Against those skaters she would have no chance. But that will change when those will retire because she would be competing against others relatively young skaters whose PCS may not be that much higher than hers.
    I agree with all this I just don't think it's relevant to discuss pogorilaya vs Kim asada kostner at this point nor do I really think it's relevant for any other Russian skater. I mean with kostner doing two double salchows in her Europeans program and still winning it's not like there is any competition between Liza and Adelina with anyone in the top 3 and now with them both declining rapidly since euros 2013 pogorilaya and lipnitskaia are well positioned to overtake them.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I agree with all this I just don't think it's relevant to discuss pogorilaya vs Kim asada kostner at this point nor do I really think it's relevant for any other Russian skater. I mean with kostner doing two double salchows in her Europeans program and still winning it's not like there is any competition between Liza and Adelina with anyone in the top 3 and now with them both declining rapidly since euros 2013 pogorilaya and lipnitskaia are well positioned to overtake them.
    Are you sure about them declining since Europeans? Have you been at their practice regularly? As far as I know, they only messed up one competition and that was 5 months ago...

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Are you sure about them declining since Europeans? Have you been at their practice regularly? As far as I know, they only messed up one competition and that was 5 months ago...
    I include the WTT as well. Everyone at the wtt was in the same boat really and Liza and Adelina were very poor which continued them being poor at worlds. adelina's free skate at wtt was just so bad but was totally in line with all her free skates except euros.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I include the WTT as well. Everyone at the wtt was in the same boat really and Liza and Adelina were very poor which continued them being poor at worlds. adelina's free skate at wtt was just so bad but was totally in line with all her free skates except euros.
    Sotnikova has 2 huge nemesis her 3F and the LP
    where she makes an average 3 mistakes

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I include the WTT as well. Everyone at the wtt was in the same boat really and Liza and Adelina were very poor which continued them being poor at worlds. adelina's free skate at wtt was just so bad but was totally in line with all her free skates except euros.
    World Trophy? Tuktamysheva did poorly, but Sotnikova was just one place under Gold, that's not such a poor result. Besides, it still was some 4 months ago, so your claim that they have been declining since Europeans is not exactly accurate, is it. Let's see what GP will bring before we start making claim about their decline.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Sotnikova has 2 huge nemesis her 3F and the LP
    where she makes an average 3 mistakes
    I know and it's terrible!

    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    World Trophy? Tuktamysheva did poorly, but Sotnikova was just one place under Gold, that's not such a poor result. Besides, it still was some 4 months ago, so your claim that they have been declining since Europeans is not exactly accurate, is it. Let's see what GP will bring before we start making claim about their decline.
    Ok worlds and wtt are long ago but cant these videos be seen as them practicing? So technically everyone has access to them practicing and Liza and Adelina are weak. Very weak! But not everyone is weak now so it's on them!

  9. #159
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    2 years ago people thought Shelepen was a lock for the Euros and Worlds team, and likely would have made both if she hadn't bombed the SP so badly at Nationals that year.

    It's pointless to talk about any of the Russian girls beating Kim, Kostner, or Asada at this point because it's never going to happen unless Koster and Asada have meltdowns of epic proportion. Liza going foot-perfect with 7 triples and 2 double axels matches the FS score Kostner and Asada can earn with an okay skate with 2-3 major errors, and then Liza would need to skate a good SP on top of that to even challenge, and she skated one good SP last season, at Nationals, every other competition her SP was not good, and sometimes even disastrous. Adelina can challenge Kostner and Asada with one error each in the SP if she's clean and doesn't pop or fall on her flip, and gets no more than one < on any of her jumps, but then there's the FS and if she continues to try two flips in her FS it's highly likely she'll pop or fall on at least one of them, give up at least one combination and get riddled with the +SEQ deduction, and then there's the 2a to worry about because she's so prone to falling out of it these days, which again puts her at risk of missing the 2a-3t combo or only managing 2a-2t, and then there's the spin entrances she sometimes messes up because she goes into them too forcefully. So yeah, a clean Adelina can maybe squeak out a win over a Kostner or Asada with 4+ errors between their two programs each, but how likely is that to happen?

    So really, it is a moot point that someone like Pogorilaya or Korobeynikova has no chance at beating Mao or Carolina because Tuk and Sot really don't have much of a chance either...

  10. #160
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    Usually people are talking about pogorilaya or lipnitskaia Or korobeynikova replacing the team of tutsmksheva and sotnikova at Olympics or euros and then it becomes about how none of them - except Liza or Adelina- would have any prayer of beating the big three and therefore would never be sent by the Russian federation but then It has to be mentioned that no one was talking about Koro pogo or Julia beating the big three and Liza or Adelina can't do It either so what's the big deal? I wish these could stay focused on the Russian team and how precarious Liza and adelina's positions are and not have it morph into Julia vs Kim when it wouldn't even be Adelina vs Kim or Kostner or Mao! Kostner can do double salchows twice against Liza and Adelina!!! Mao 3 triples against Julia! But Julia can beat Liza and Adelina

  11. #161
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    This thread makes my blood boil and hope that Liza sweeps all before her this season.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    This thread makes my blood boil and hope that Liza sweeps all before her this season.
    I know what you mean, but oddly enough I'm not bothered. I know Liza will get things sorted - I don't know if it will happen this season, though, but I'm sure she will; she's not a quitter and she won't give up.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    This thread makes my blood boil and hope that Liza sweeps all before her this season.
    She has the goods and so does Adelina, and I tend to think they will both have some big successes ahead of them in their careers, it's just hard to tell if it will be this season or in the future. Although I remember in past seasons Liza wasn't skating so well in those summer shows either but then got everything together by the time the real season started. I guess it's hard to compare because the off-season is long and some skaters are probably pretty much good-to-go by July or August, while others are just getting used to their programs and haven't started to seriously train doing all the jumps in them between the choreography and stuff. So things might look very different in about a month. And Liza does have a tendency to skate well when it matters.

  14. #164
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    Moris Kvitelashvili SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4wGgA-_SzI with 3A now and quad, could do well representing Georgia for their men

    Alsu Kayumova FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IhITeWwsQg

    Yanovskaia/Mozgov SD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8SQJqbv_tQ

    Tarasova/Morozov FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-MEMtgnNXw

    Sergei Voronov SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksDppUpyh9A

    Murad Kurbanov SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqiBIub9xiw

    Adelina Sotnikova FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER1n5XiJ5gg

    Alexei Genya FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w7u-uONFsg

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by npavel View Post
    how about Nikol GOSVIANI
    No info for now.

    We know that she started previous seasons not very good (being much better at second half of season), but this season it may change.

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