2013 - 2014 Russian skaters, rules, and events

Li'Kitsu · Sep 5, 2013

gmyers said:
This is not comparing to animals! This is discussing their skating and results? Yes I believe Julia would have scored higher than Adelina and Liza and how could she have not have been? LOL! If anything Julia is like Gold.

It's insulting either way, if you 'just' laugh about them or compare them to animals.
Julia was like Gracie? Erm... general skater type? Far, far from it. Jr. W vs. W performances? Oh come on, you can't be serious about that. Julia had 111+ in the FS vs. Gracie's 125+. And that difference is very rightly so high if you compare head to head what they did. (Yes, there's an additional element, but thake the 2,8 points for the ChSq out of Gracies score, and there's still more than a 10 points difference).
Again, how should Julia's score rise by being compared to stronger skaters? It's more likely it would have even been lower...

Mirunna · Sep 5, 2013

gmyers said:
She Could probably use her 2013 euros performance to get her on the Olympic team!

With the exception of the whole Kovtun mess, I think Russia has a very good selecting method. I am almost sure that top 3 from nationals will be sent to Euros to fight for the 2 places at Sochi / the national champion will go and the others will fight at Euros for the remaining spot. If Alena didn't make it to Euros even after winning silver at worlds the previous season, I really doubt your theory could happen

LuisRollerArg · Sep 5, 2013

I think you just have a place available for the Olympics, because apparently Leonova has returned to its level as in 2012 .. if so, one of those spots is almost assured to her (she is the Russian lady with the highest PCS), I think Leonova & Liza will be the chosen

sky_fly20 · Sep 5, 2013

luisARG said:
I think you just have a place available for the Olympics, because apparently Leonova has returned to its level as in 2012 .. if so, one of those spots is almost assured to her (she is the Russian lady with the highest PCS), I think Leonova & Liza will be the chosen

how did you know that ? she hasn't even competed yet ! :laugh:

and if she and Stonikova go head to head in this season, Sotnikova will get a higher PCS

her PCS were already tanking last season
her highest was around 58 in the LP

tulosai · Sep 5, 2013

sky_fly20 said:
If all perform well they should also consider who is very much
known and liked in Russia:

Julia is the most well known followed by Adelina in Russia, Tuk comes a distant third believe it or not

many young skaters look up to Julia and have her as their ideal skater
though Julia herself mentions Adelina and Carolina as her ideal skaters
with their powerful presentation and big jumps

I'm sure these two will get huge home crowd support in Sochi

She has also mentioned she respects Adelina and Carolina because they do not give up if they have had a rough competition or season, and that she respects that and knows as she goes on in her career there may be periods of struggle and she wants to deal with it as they do. I thought that was one of the most mature and likable things I've ever heard any skater say.

FSGMT · Sep 5, 2013

sky_fly20 said:
her PCS were already tanking last season her highest was around 58 in the LP

With something like five mistakes out of seven jumps and 0 transitions... that was OVERSCORING!!

sky_fly20 · Sep 5, 2013

skating on home ice, Leonova got that overscored PCS of course :disapp:
her PCS at Worlds was already on the losing streak

tulosai said:
She has also mentioned she respects Adelina and Carolina because they do not give up if they have had a rough competition or season, and that she respects that and knows as she goes on in her career there may be periods of struggle and she wants to deal with it as they do. I thought that was one of the most mature and likable things I've ever heard any skater say.

indeed, and I find it a bit odd Julia looks up to skaters known for being inconsistent
but hopefully like them she matures with her presentation in years to come

Skater Boy · Sep 5, 2013

she does seem to be skating faster though (Leonova) in her Carmen but she is no shoo in. The Russian ladies have been a HUGE disappointment or at least not developing as faast as wone thought.

mielikki · Sep 5, 2013

A short video Anastasia Martiusheva filmed at Mishin's group practice.
http://instagram.com/p/d2RPdyMOHy/#
Plushenko jumps 3-3-2

sky_fly20 · Sep 5, 2013

mielikki said:
A short video Anastasia Martiusheva filmed at Mishin's group practice.
http://instagram.com/p/d2RPdyMOHy/#
Plushenko jumps 3-3-2

WoW, as if his jumps never left
still incredible rotation and perfect landings

Go Zhenya " :love:

gmyers · Sep 5, 2013

Li'Kitsu said:
It's insulting either way, if you 'just' laugh about them or compare them to animals.
Julia was like Gracie? Erm... general skater type? Far, far from it. Jr. W vs. W performances? Oh come on, you can't be serious about that. Julia had 111+ in the FS vs. Gracie's 125+. And that difference is very rightly so high if you compare head to head what they did. (Yes, there's an additional element, but thake the 2,8 points for the ChSq out of Gracies score, and there's still more than a 10 points difference).
Again, how should Julia's score rise by being compared to stronger skaters? It's more likely it would have even been lower...

In 2010 worlds Kevin van der perren got all 8's in pcs from a judge when he skated well! This is when chan and takhashi also got all 8's or more. There is no real judge thinking of only the best get 8s in pcs. This is why there's been such pcs inflation so you get 9's and 10's now. You think skating the way she did at sr worlds like she did at jr worlds Julia woukd get 3 or 4 pcs? It doesn't work the way you think it does at all in scoring skaters! I don't laugh at them or call them animals. Talkin about lizas sp problems or all of sotnikova's jumping problems is just that! Why did they place so low at worlds? There was a reason worlds was a total disaster for Liza and Adelina. Taking away all the excitement and expectation about possible success in Sochi for ladies by a lot!

Mirunna said:
With the exception of the whole Kovtun mess, I think Russia has a very good selecting method. I am almost sure that top 3 from nationals will be sent to Euros to fight for the 2 places at Sochi / the national champion will go and the others will fight at Euros for the remaining spot. If Alena didn't make it to Euros even after winning silver at worlds the previous season, I really doubt your theory could happen

The kovtun situation revealed a new system! Only winner if eligible will go to euros. Second and third spots entirely about who the federation wants. But maybe that was just words because the winner was plushenko. When you send a fifth place person its lime there are no rules. And sonikova has all the political power behind her.

mielikki · Sep 5, 2013

gmyers said:
The kovtun situation revealed a new system! Only winner if eligible will go to euros. Second and third spots entirely about who the federation wants. But maybe that was just words because the winner was plushenko.

I clearly remember they quoted their rules, and the first TWO spots at Nationals are guaranteed spots at Europeans. Only the third one is the matter of discussion.

Li'Kitsu · Sep 5, 2013

gmyers said:
In 2010 worlds Kevin van der perren got all 8's in pcs from a judge when he skated well! This is when chan and takhashi also got all 8's or more. There is no real judge thinking of only the best get 8s in pcs. This is why there's been such pcs inflation so you get 9's and 10's now. You think skating the way she did at sr worlds like she did at jr worlds Julia woukd get 3 or 4 pcs? It doesn't work the way you think it does at all in scoring skaters!

Yes, Kevin van der Perren from 2010 is a perfect argument for why Julias PCS would have been higher at senior worlds than at junior worlds! :rofl:

Weren't you complaining yourself how Kostner can beat Sotnikova with way more mistakes, like at Euros 2013? That's called PCS; and the difference the PCS make to the overall scoring (and I'm part of the people thinking Kostners win was justified). Julia won't even be getting the same PCS as Adelina, so how much lower would she be than Kostner? LOL. Nobody talks about 3's or 4's, but at Jr W she was at mid 6's. And that's just it.

gmyers said:
I don't laugh at them or call them animals. Talkin about lizas sp problems or all of sotnikova's jumping problems is just that! Why did they place so low at worlds? There was a reason worlds was a total disaster for Liza and Adelina. Taking away all the excitement and expectation about possible success in Sochi for ladies by a lot!

Call it what you want, but you use every possibility to talk about how supposedly awful those two were, are and will be. And you're completly overdoing it. Finishing 9th and 10th at their first worlds is low? It's not! Could it have been better? Yes. But what they did was still good enough for their first worlds experience.

silverlake22 · Sep 5, 2013

sky_fly20 said:
Can we just stop hyping Pogorilaya
she is like Shelepen 2.0 maybe with just a bit higher PCS and a bit more consistent

I like Shelepen. And also, this is an aesthetic sport, Liza has a pretty face but really her build is doing her no favors, meanwhile Anna is thin, leggy and blonde with a stunning face. If she continues to land lots of difficult jumps and combinations and her good looks and body build will definitely help her to do better. Look how well Gracie Gold is doing now and she was just another skater who was a strong, consistent jumper with poor PCS and no expression, but she is pretty and blonde and after performing well a few times internationally her PCS are pretty high. Compared to Gracie, Anna is much more expressive honestly and she's less stiff than Gracie. If Shelepen hadn't left Tutberidze and finally learned how to put 2 good programs together in competition, she probably would have done well in seniors...

Also Adelina works with TAT which is the main reason she is a Fed favorite. Also getting assigned to COR 2 seasons in a row also gives the impression she is Russia's top pick. Thankfully, the Fed had some since and did not assign her there this season considering she always bombs at COR, but anyways, she is not the National champion this season, Tuk skated better on the GP the past 2 seasons, and Lip as well last season, and yet you can tell she is the Fed's top priority. And this was before she beat Tuk at Euros or Worlds too, and Tuk beat her in the FS at both those competitions anyways and would have beaten her overall if she could just skate her SP properly. So I would say Adelina is a Fed pet, they treat her like #1, when really she is more like #3 among Sochi-eligible women in Russia given her competitive results the past 2 seasons..

gmyers · Sep 5, 2013

mielikki said:
I clearly remember they quoted their rules, and the first TWO spots at Nationals are guaranteed spots at Europeans. Only the third one is the matter of discussion.

Maybe I was thinking of only top finisher at euros is guaranteed for worlds if there's more than one spot? Somewhere there's a rule that only the top finisher is automatic. They give themselves a lot of leeway in who goes where and almost no one is really automatic for anything.

Li'Kitsu said:
Yes, Kevin van der Perren from 2010 is a perfect argument for why Julias PCS would have been higher at senior worlds than at junior worlds!
Weren't you complaining yourself how Kostner can beat Sotnikova with way more mistakes, like at Euros 2013? That's called PCS; and the difference the PCS make to the overall scoring (and I'm part of the people thinking Kostners win was justified). Julia won't even be getting the same PCS as Adelina, so how much lower would she be than Kostner? LOL. Nobody talks about 3's or 4's, but at Jr W she was at mid 6's. And that's just it.

Call it what you want, but you use every possibility to talk about how supposedly awful those two were, are and will be. And you're completly overdoing it. Finishing 9th and 10th at their first worlds is low? It's not! Could it have been better? Yes. But what they did was still good enough for their first worlds experience.

9th and 10th at the first worlds is low in the COP era if someone is good! They weren't good and were therefore 9th and 10th but its very easy to go to your first COP worlds and be top 5 and it's very easy to accomplish in SP or LP or overall. Gold, Li, Osmond just at 2013 worlds. Sotnikova and Tuktamisheva bombed so they were 9th and 10th but if they skated well top 5 would have been easy. There were 20 skaters in the FS? And they were in the middle. Not the worst but not good at all. And aside from their final ranking the skating from Adelina in the FS was atrocious as was the SP of Liza. She also abandoned triple triples in her FS.

With her flutzing, uring triple toes and flip problems no matter what Adelina's PCS is even in technical merit she was barely better than someone who did two double salchows because the triples Kostner did she actually did well! Adelina's PCS means nothing! It doesn't lead her anywhere because the jumps are so bad. Maybe they have all been fixed and she will not have any problems with flutz or ur or flip consistency this season. I think that's very doubtful based on all the videos that have come out but I guess its not impossible.

If Julia got 6 at jr worlds but would've gotten lower at sr worlds because judges would have seen Kim and Kostner after her then where do you go but 5,4 or lower in PCS? It didn't seem you meant 6.75 to 6.25 and that really doesn't happen!

silverlake22 said:
I like Shelepen. And also, this is an aesthetic sport, Liza has a pretty face but really her build is doing her no favors, meanwhile Anna is thin, leggy and blonde with a stunning face. If she continues to land lots of difficult jumps and combinations and her good looks and body build will definitely help her to do better. Look how well Gracie Gold is doing now and she was just another skater who was a strong, consistent jumper with poor PCS and no expression, but she is pretty and blonde and after performing well a few times internationally her PCS are pretty high. Compared to Gracie, Anna is much more expressive honestly and she's less stiff than Gracie. If Shelepen hadn't left Tutberidze and finally learned how to put 2 good programs together in competition, she probably would have done well in seniors...

Also Adelina works with TAT which is the main reason she is a Fed favorite. Also getting assigned to COR 2 seasons in a row also gives the impression she is Russia's top pick. Thankfully, the Fed had some since and did not assign her there this season considering she always bombs at COR, but anyways, she is not the National champion this season, Tuk skated better on the GP the past 2 seasons, and Lip as well last season, and yet you can tell she is the Fed's top priority. And this was before she beat Tuk at Euros or Worlds too, and Tuk beat her in the FS at both those competitions anyways and would have beaten her overall if she could just skate her SP properly. So I would say Adelina is a Fed pet, they treat her like #1, when really she is more like #3 among Sochi-eligible women in Russia given her competitive results the past 2 seasons..

Totally right to both paragraphs!

sky_fly20 · Sep 5, 2013

silverlake22 said:
I like Shelepen. And also, this is an aesthetic sport, Liza has a pretty face but really her build is doing her no favors, meanwhile Anna is thin, leggy and blonde with a stunning face. If she continues to land lots of difficult jumps and combinations and her good looks and body build will definitely help her to do better. Look how well Gracie Gold is doing now and she was just another skater who was a strong, consistent jumper with poor PCS and no expression, but she is pretty and blonde and after performing well a few times internationally her PCS are pretty high. Compared to Gracie, Anna is much more expressive honestly and she's less stiff than Gracie. If Shelepen hadn't left Tutberidze and finally learned how to put 2 good programs together in competition, she probably would have done well in seniors...

Also Adelina works with TAT which is the main reason she is a Fed favorite. Also getting assigned to COR 2 seasons in a row also gives the impression she is Russia's top pick. Thankfully, the Fed had some since and did not assign her there this season considering she always bombs at COR, but anyways, she is not the National champion this season, Tuk skated better on the GP the past 2 seasons, and Lip as well last season, and yet you can tell she is the Fed's top priority. And this was before she beat Tuk at Euros or Worlds too, and Tuk beat her in the FS at both those competitions anyways and would have beaten her overall if she could just skate her SP properly. So I would say Adelina is a Fed pet, they treat her like #1, when really she is more like #3 among Sochi-eligible women in Russia given her competitive results the past 2 seasons..

imo Adelina deserves the highest PCS amongst the Russians
her footworks deserve to be all level 4s and her spin variations too
her transition is very Carolina Kostner, she is fast on the ice and has very nice lines and spiral

but what is off putting is her terrible technique, watching her test skates made me renew my previous love for her
but I must not and can't with her inconsistent jumps :disapp:

Li'Kitsu · Sep 5, 2013

gmyers said:
9th and 10th at the first worlds is low in the COP era if someone is good! .... Sotnikova and Tuktamisheva bombed so they were 9th and 10th but if they skated well top 5 would have been easy.

Of corse, and they probably should have been able to beat Yuna/Mao/Caro too! Oh man, really... if making the top 5 is easy or not does not at all depend on the system, but on the other competitors! Would they have been able to skate at 2011 or 1012 worlds their placements would already have been better. Adelina scored 175.98 and Liza 174.24. In 2012, Adelina would have been 5th between Ashley (176.77) and Kanako (175.41); and Liza would have been in front of Mao with 164.52. In 2011, they would come in between Alissa (5th with 182.25) and Mao (6th with 172.79).

If Julia got 6 at jr worlds but would've gotten lower at sr worlds because judges would have seen Kim and Kostner after her then where do you go but 5,4 or lower in PCS? It didn't seem you meant 6.75 to 6.25 and that really doesn't happen

I was mainly saying you were completly wrong to think her marks would have been higher at senior worlds. Not too sure about her PCS (maybe low to mid 6's), but I'm pretty sure her jumping GOE would have taken quite a hit (her 2A3T got her +2's and even a +3! You think that would happen skating alongside Yuna, Gracie, Caro,...?).

tulosai · Sep 5, 2013

silverlake22 said:
And this was before she beat Tuk at Euros or Worlds too, and Tuk beat her in the FS at both those competitions anyways and would have beaten her overall if she could just skate her SP properly. So I would say Adelina is a Fed pet, they treat her like #1, when really she is more like #3 among Sochi-eligible women in Russia given her competitive results the past 2 seasons..

They treat her as #1 because at major senior competitions she consistently beats Tukt. Tukt does better on the GP but Adelina wins the later international competitions no matter how narrowly. Also, Tukt can't skate her SP properly so this 'if she could just' is ridiculous- 'if Adelina could' skate her LP properly she'd have an enormous lead over Tukt. It is fiction though, just like a clean SP from Liza lately. I very much hope Liza and Adelina both fix their issues though. As I have said in other posts, I wish both well but am a fan of neither.

silverlake22 · Sep 5, 2013

sky_fly20 said:
imo Adelina deserves the highest PCS amongst the Russians
her footworks deserve to be all level 4s and her spin variations too
her transition is very Carolina Kostner, she is fast on the ice and has very nice lines and spiral

but what is off putting is her terrible technique, watching her test skates made me renew my previous love for her
but I must not and can't with her inconsistent jumps :disapp:

Agree that Adelina deserves the highest PCS among Liza and Julia, and she usually receives the highest PCS in international competitions as well. However, being prone to mistakes, URs, botched jumps and spins hurts her TES a lot, and that is why the other 2 girls have done better on the GP and I say she is really #3. Her PCS is higher and deserves to be higher than Julia and Liza yes, but the margin is only a few points, and in terms of execution, Adelina has jump technique flaws that make me really question if she can ever land or rotate all her jumps properly in a competition, my fear is no, whereas for Julia and Liza, their jump technique is stronger, and they have both gone out and landed and rotated all their jumps in a competition before, so I feel either one of those girls skating cleanly with well-executed jumps is more likely compared to Adelina. For Liza and Julia, they just need to execute, the issues I think are mental/nerve based or related to injuries. For Adelina, she needs a technique overhaul to accomplish such a feat.

gmyers · Sep 5, 2013

Li'Kitsu said:
Of corse, and they probably should have been able to beat Yuna/Mao/Caro too! Oh man, really... if making the top 5 is easy or not does not at all depend on the system, but on the other competitors! Would they have been able to skate at 2011 or 1012 worlds their placements would already have been better. Adelina scored 175.98 and Liza 174.24. In 2012, Adelina would have been 5th between Ashley (176.77) and Kanako (175.41); and Liza would have been in front of Mao with 164.52. In 2011, they would come in between Alissa (5th with 182.25) and Mao (6th with 172.79).

I was mainly saying you were completly wrong to think her marks would have been higher at senior worlds. Not too sure about her PCS (maybe low to mid 6's), but I'm pretty sure her jumping GOE would have taken quite a hit (her 2A3T got her +2's and even a +3! You think that would happen skating alongside Yuna, Gracie, Caro,...?).

Julia would probably not get the +2 or +3 GOE but it is nice that she and almost she alone can actually deliver everything she plans in both SP and LP among the three of Adelina, Liza and Julia! She keeps the base value more than any other when the competition is over! So I think that would totally serve her the best in a Euros worlds Olympics WTT. Rather than have Sotnikova do her bomb the FS thing and Liza do her bomb the SP thing. Adelina needs someone to look at how her freeskates are designed and are damaging her chances at success enormously. She can't do 2 triple flips with a three jump combo cleanly ever so why is it in every free skate? That has never been explained! Shes supposed to do 3F, 3F-2t-2t and never ever does!

Liza and Adelina at 2011 or 2012 would have placed higher but its not about their placement but how they actually skate! So if they actually skated well maybe either could have medaled at 2011 or 2012 worlds! So even if they ranked higher it still would have been a major disaster because they would have blown major medal opportunities with their bombing.

2013 - 2014 Russian skaters, rules, and events

Li'Kitsu

Mirunna

LuisRollerArg

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

tulosai

FSGMT

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

Skater Boy

mielikki

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

gmyers

mielikki

Li'Kitsu

silverlake22

gmyers

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

Li'Kitsu

tulosai

silverlake22

gmyers

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