2013 - 2014 Russian skaters, rules, and events

Li'Kitsu · Sep 5, 2013

gmyers said:
Julia would probably not get the +2 or +3 GOE but it is nice that she and almost she alone can actually deliver everything she plans in both SP and LP among the three of Adelina, Liza and Julia!

Yeah, its nice. But she didn't at Jr W, and when her PCS and GOE don't stack up, it's not going to be enough to place well at senior competitions. Julia would not have placed better than adelina and Liza at this years worlds, and never would she have close to Gracie scoring wise.

gmyers said:
Liza and Adelina at 2011 or 2012 would have placed higher but its not about their placement but how they actually skate! So if they actually skated well maybe either could have medaled at 2011 or 2012 worlds! So even if they ranked higher it still would have been a major disaster because they would have blown major medal opportunities with their bombing.

Oh man, alright, this is getting tiresome. I get it, they're awful and so on. I'm not going to repeat what I said before, so I guess this discussion is done.

drivingmissdaisy · Sep 5, 2013

silverlake22 said:
For Liza and Julia, they just need to execute, the issues I think are mental/nerve based or related to injuries. For Adelina, she needs a technique overhaul to accomplish such a feat.

Aside from her flutz, Adelina doesn't seem to have technical issues with the jumps IMO. Yes, she misses the flip a lot but I think it's mental because I don't see anything atypical about the entrance. Her other jumps are usually good. I don't think she is ever going to be one of those skaters who hits a 7 triple program but she is already one of the most artistic skaters in the world and we will all be in for a treat if she ever pulls herself together.

gmyers · Sep 5, 2013

Li'Kitsu said:
Yeah, its nice. But she didn't at Jr W, and when her PCS and GOE don't stack up, it's not going to be enough to place well at senior competitions. Julia would not have placed better than adelina and Liza at this years worlds, and never would she have close to Gracie scoring wise.

Oh man, alright, this is getting tiresome. I get it, they're awful and so on. I'm not going to repeat what I said before, so I guess this discussion is done.

1- I don't get why Julia would not have beaten Adelina or Julia? With lizas sp and adelina's fs if Julia hit all her elements how could she have not have? Even her Pcs probably would've been fine. Her gp pcs was fine. she goes to worlds and she can't even get her gp pcs? Why?

2- Adelina and Liza are not awful but their performances were!! Adelina's was awful in free skates 90% of the time because they refuse to stop giving her two flips!! I almost think Adelina should just abandon 2 flips in an act of rebellion against her coaches who are just blindly hoping she will eventually be able to do 3f ANd 3f-2t-2t! While she does try that she routinely doesn't do three jump combos at all almost always leaving a jump out of her program! Or singling a flip or falling on a flip? No one in her entire team or entire federation has ever thought of one flip? It's bizarre!

And Liza just needs total sp lessons or she said she gets so nervous so maybe a very common sports psychologist. Then it would be nice if she ever tried something different from a Latin themed program ever.

karne · Sep 5, 2013

sky_fly20 said:
WoW, as if his jumps never left
still incredible rotation and perfect landings

Go Zhenya "

Wow, both Plushenko and Gachinski look marvellously fit - and there were a lot of very effortless-looking jumps but both of them in there!

silverlake22 · Sep 6, 2013

drivingmissdaisy said:
Aside from her flutz, Adelina doesn't seem to have technical issues with the jumps IMO. Yes, she misses the flip a lot but I think it's mental because I don't see anything atypical about the entrance. Her other jumps are usually good. I don't think she is ever going to be one of those skaters who hits a 7 triple program but she is already one of the most artistic skaters in the world and we will all be in for a treat if she ever pulls herself together.

Her technique is SO swingy, she uses her arms/upper body too much, she rushes the takeoffs, jumps on a curve rather than a straight line, the flip and lutz have edges swinging back and forth ala Caroline Zhang up until 2011 on the entrances, I can go on. Her EDGE jumps are good, I'll give you that, 3lo, 3s, nice jumps big height no major issues. The toe jumps are not good for the reasons I mentioned and then her axel technique is downright scary even if she does get amazing height on her 2a. So 2, maybe 3 (3t is okay on it's own, just usually URed in combination), of her 6 jumps are good quality, that's not very good news if she's trying to medal in Sochi..

Mirunna · Sep 6, 2013

gmyers said:
1- I don't get why Julia would not have beaten Adelina or Julia? With lizas sp and adelina's fs if Julia hit all her elements how could she have not have? Even her Pcs probably would've been fine. Her gp pcs was fine. she goes to worlds and she can't even get her gp pcs? Why?

2- Adelina and Liza are not awful but their performances were!! Adelina's was awful in free skates 90% of the time because they refuse to stop giving her two flips!! I almost think Adelina should just abandon 2 flips in an act of rebellion against her coaches who are just blindly hoping she will eventually be able to do 3f ANd 3f-2t-2t! While she does try that she routinely doesn't do three jump combos at all almost always leaving a jump out of her program! Or singling a flip or falling on a flip? No one in her entire team or entire federation has ever thought of one flip? It's bizarre!

And Liza just needs total sp lessons or she said she gets so nervous so maybe a very common sports psychologist. Then it would be nice if she ever tried something different from a Latin themed program ever.

1 - Because Julia messed up her SP combo with a 3Lz-1T and an edge call on her 3F. That alone would have placed her below top 15 at Worlds, which means she would have to skate very early in the Lp(which would't help her PCS). And in the LP, she would have probably climbed up a few places, but not over Liza/Adelina because she was hit with 2 edge calls, doubled a 3S and PCS would held her down. That's why. Unless you are being totally unreasonable and compare a totally clean Julia (which she was not at all last season) with Liza's/Adelina's performances at Worlds. Since her injury Julia didn't produced a single clean performance so I see no reason why you would assume she would have done it at worlds.

2- Adelina's LP was not good but not bad. I agree about the flips, it would be wise to replace the 3F-2-2 with a 3L-2-2, much wiser. Leave a solo 3F in the Lp, she can usually do that.
Liza's Lp at worlds was actually very good. Not perfect, but very good. She was underscored compared to some other girls, but that is just my opinion.

Li'Kitsu · Sep 6, 2013

Mirunna said:
1 - Because Julia messed up her SP combo with a 3Lz-1T and an edge call on her 3F. That alone would have placed her below top 15 at Worlds, which means she would have to skate very early in the Lp(which would't help her PCS). And in the LP, she would have probably climbed up a few places, but not over Liza/Adelina because she was hit with 2 edge calls, doubled a 3S and PCS would held her down. That's why. Unless you are being totally unreasonable and compare a totally clean Julia (which she was not at all last season) with Liza's/Adelina's performances at Worlds. Since her injury Julia didn't produced a single clean performance so I see no reason why you would assume she would have done it at worlds.

2- Adelina's LP was not good but not bad. I agree about the flips, it would be wise to replace the 3F-2-2 with a 3L-2-2, much wiser. Leave a solo 3F in the Lp, she can usually do that.
Liza's Lp at worlds was actually very good. Not perfect, but very good. She was underscored compared to some other girls, but that is just my opinion.

:yes:
And agreed about Liza being underscored in the FS. She had to skate very early, and that might have something to do with it. If she messes up her SPs, she'll always be in a bad position for her LPs. With that, skating a good SP and messing up the LP in a later scoring group might actually get you more points...

mielikki · Sep 6, 2013

http://www.allsportinfo.ru/index.php?id=75316
So Maxim Kovtun poisoned himself with some local food in Sochi and fell ill with high temperature for two days. Most likely he won't take part in the test skates.
But he says on the first practice after the poisoning he already jumped fine enough. Piseev came to watch.
He plans to do two quads in the SP, but haven't tried it in the program yet. He's pretty sure he can do it, only needs to work on it in practice.

http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/11285.html
Artur Gachinski plans 4T, 3-3 and 3A in the SP, praises Jeffrey, praises Jeffrey one more time, and apparently, Anna Karenina OST was his own idea, not Mishin's or choreographer's.

karne · Sep 6, 2013

mielikki said:
http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/11285.html
Artur Gachinski plans 4T, 3-3 and 3A in the SP, praises Jeffrey, praises Jeffrey one more time, and apparently, Anna Karenina OST was his own idea, not Mishin's or choreographer's.

Oh, I like the tone of all of this. Artur making artistic decisions on his own sounds very promising. And the praise of Jeff suggests that he won't want to change anything about the SP he's been given. I'm very pleased that Mishin is letting him do this kind of thing.

gmyers · Sep 6, 2013

mielikki said:
http://www.allsportinfo.ru/index.php?id=75316
So Maxim Kovtun poisoned himself with some local food in Sochi and fell ill with high temperature for two days. Most likely he won't take part in the test skates.
But he says on the first practice after the poisoning he already jumped fine enough. Piseev came to watch.
He plans to do two quads in the SP, but haven't tried it in the program yet. He's pretty sure he can do it, only needs to work on it in practice.

http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/11285.html
Artur Gachinski plans 4T, 3-3 and 3A in the SP, praises Jeffrey, praises Jeffrey one more time, and apparently, Anna Karenina OST was his own idea, not Mishin's or choreographer's.

This gives Kovtun more time to prepare. I doubt he's ready. I doubt the story is true! Strategic tarasova always at work. Why show Kovtun so early? Keep him for later! Make other skaters do early season rocky skates. Keep Kovtun out of it!

I wonder what of those SP jumps for Gachinski will be in the bonus! It's the hot new thing to maybe have a layout of 1/2! At least 2/3 with 3/3 in the bonus.

drivingmissdaisy · Sep 6, 2013

silverlake22 said:
Her technique is SO swingy, she uses her arms/upper body too much, she rushes the takeoffs, jumps on a curve rather than a straight line, the flip and lutz have edges swinging back and forth ala Caroline Zhang up until 2011 on the entrances, I can go on.

I don't think the curved entrance is necessarily bad technique.

gmyers · Sep 6, 2013

Mirunna said:
1 - Because Julia messed up her SP combo with a 3Lz-1T and an edge call on her 3F. That alone would have placed her below top 15 at Worlds, which means she would have to skate very early in the Lp(which would't help her PCS). And in the LP, she would have probably climbed up a few places, but not over Liza/Adelina because she was hit with 2 edge calls, doubled a 3S and PCS would held her down. That's why. Unless you are being totally unreasonable and compare a totally clean Julia (which she was not at all last season) with Liza's/Adelina's performances at Worlds. Since her injury Julia didn't produced a single clean performance so I see no reason why you would assume she would have done it at worlds.

2- Adelina's LP was not good but not bad. I agree about the flips, it would be wise to replace the 3F-2-2 with a 3L-2-2, much wiser. Leave a solo 3F in the Lp, she can usually do that.
Liza's Lp at worlds was actually very good. Not perfect, but very good. She was underscored compared to some other girls, but that is just my opinion.

I don't understand how you could possibly think Julia would've been below Liza who missed two elements completely! That is just weird. Liza was not credited with a spin or a jump and you think Julia would've been below that? Yeah Julia injured was superior to a totally healthy Adelina and Liza. This is what I'm saying Julia can have a concussion in the middle of her season and still at worst be equal to liza and adelina! Julia filled in all the technical elements required of her in her SP and did the same in her LP!! Even if the combo was botched she didn't give up! Wasn't so rattled she couldn't continue to do elements. No 1a<< invalid element for her after a mistake!

That Julias edge calls would've have been worse than Adleina's? How? That Adelina leaving out jumps which left her in a disastrous 10th when another newcomer at her first worlds was 4th!! Another newcomer was 4th in the FS and Adelina was 10th. Julia couldn't have beaten Adelina with her worlds FS when her errors were less than Adelina's? No Adelina's free skate was very bad. It was the worst program from a technical construction given the skaters ability at 2013 worlds and all season and it looks like its going to be repeated with no changes because her coaches don't believe there's anything wrong.

silverlake22 · Sep 6, 2013

drivingmissdaisy said:
I don't think the curved entrance is necessarily bad technique.

Not necessarily, but the curved technique lends itself to using more arms and upper body movement in the jump, which interferes with one's ability to rotate and land the jump consistently when one's weight distribution and center of gravity shift during puberty. Adelina's jumps are really loose in the air, which is why even though she gets fantastic elevation, her rotation is often short. If she were to learn a more linear technique I bet she could get tighter in the air and clean up those URs and scary landings.

RemyRose · Sep 6, 2013

Riazanova/Tkachenko
SD: Chicago
FD: Phantom of the Opera

http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/11303.html

Sinitsina/Zhiganshin
FD: Norma (opera) by Bellini

interview about SD and FD storylines http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/11299.html

Moment · Sep 7, 2013

silverlake22 said:
Her technique is SO swingy, she uses her arms/upper body too much, she rushes the takeoffs, jumps on a curve rather than a straight line, the flip and lutz have edges swinging back and forth ala Caroline Zhang up until 2011 on the entrances, I can go on. Her EDGE jumps are good, I'll give you that, 3lo, 3s, nice jumps big height no major issues. The toe jumps are not good for the reasons I mentioned and then her axel technique is downright scary even if she does get amazing height on her 2a. So 2, maybe 3 (3t is okay on it's own, just usually URed in combination), of her 6 jumps are good quality, that's not very good news if she's trying to medal in Sochi..

Her flip and Lutz scare me. I pray she doesn't fall down everytime I see her attempt those jumps.

mielikki · Sep 7, 2013

http://www.allsportinfo.ru/index.php?id=75334
Konstantin Menshov is out of the test skates. He collapsed with a girl in training a week before coming to Sochi, and his shoulder started hurting again

In Sochi Team Russia's head physician Yaroslav Bugaev sent him to Moscow for proper medical treatment. Now Konstantin is skating on drugs, he even jumps, but he'll need an operation (he doesn't say when), because the shoulder ain't getting better and no one guarantees it won't be misplaced again.

Li'Kitsu · Sep 7, 2013

gmyers said:
I don't understand how you could possibly think Julia would've been below Liza who missed two elements completely! That is just weird. Liza was not credited with a spin or a jump and you think Julia would've been below that? Yeah Julia injured was superior to a totally healthy Adelina and Liza. This is what I'm saying Julia can have a concussion in the middle of her season and still at worst be equal to liza and adelina! Julia filled in all the technical elements required of her in her SP and did the same in her LP!! Even if the combo was botched she didn't give up! Wasn't so rattled she couldn't continue to do elements. No 1a<< invalid element for her after a mistake!

There's something called an SP, and something called an FS, and despite you don't seem to like the fact, both of them combined make up the overall placement. Yes, Julias SP was better than Lizas. But Lizas FS was better than Julias. And it's the other way around for Adelina... besides that how someone could possibly think Julia would be below Liza? Julias score at Jr W: 165+. Liza's at W was 174+ and Adelina's 175+. You think Julias ChSq could have made up that difference?

FSGMT · Sep 7, 2013

mielikki said:
http://www.allsportinfo.ru/index.php?id=75334
Konstantin Menshov is out of the test skates. He collapsed with a girl in training a week before coming to Sochi, and his shouler started hurting again In Sochi Team Russia's head physician Yaroslav Bugaev sent him to Moscow for proper medical treatment. Now Konstantin is skating on drugs, he even jumps, but he'll need an operation (he doesn't say when), because the shoulder ain't getting better and no one guarantees it won't be misplaced again.

Binthere · Sep 7, 2013

Watching what one can presume are carefully pre-selected clips from practice sessions, is one thing. It is a data point. However, putting things all together in a competitive program, during a competition where flags are swirling through the air and the shouts of support are building while the pressure almost raises the roof, will be another thing entirely.

Who amongst these athletes has the "head" to handle that? The only one I am willing to feel confident is Plushenko.

Amongst the ladies??

karne · Sep 7, 2013

mielikki said:
http://www.allsportinfo.ru/index.php?id=75334
Konstantin Menshov is out of the test skates. He collapsed with a girl in training a week before coming to Sochi, and his shoulder started hurting again In Sochi Team Russia's head physician Yaroslav Bugaev sent him to Moscow for proper medical treatment. Now Konstantin is skating on drugs, he even jumps, but he'll need an operation (he doesn't say when), because the shoulder ain't getting better and no one guarantees it won't be misplaced again.

Oh nooooooooooooooooooooooo!

2013 - 2014 Russian skaters, rules, and events

Li'Kitsu

drivingmissdaisy

gmyers

karne

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silverlake22

Mirunna

Li'Kitsu

mielikki

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gmyers

drivingmissdaisy

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Li'Kitsu

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