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Thread: 2013 - 2014 Russian skaters, rules, and events

  1. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaroLiza_fan View Post
    Thank you for clarifying the system, DobrinFan. I wasn't sure if you only got one shot at qualifying or whether you could enter another, later qualifying event to try again.

    But, since qualifying is based on two results rather than just your best result, I see that the game is up for Kristina this year. To be honest, I thought the 10th place overall wouldn't be good enough to have a realistic chance of going through. But, it was a question worth asking, just to make sure.

    You see, I also had Polina Agafanova in mind when I asked the question (she had a disappointing 9th in the FS, which dropped her to 7th overall after being 5th in the SP). But I decided to use Kristina as the example as she had plumeted further than Polina.

    Plus, I like Kristina, and I wanted to emphasise to those unfamiliar with her that she can do a LOT better!!!

    CaroLiza_fan
    Let's be realistic. She has no chance in hell to qualify now. Russian nationals have only limited amount of places - 18 for ladies. First places will be allocated to those who competed at GP events, which means: Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva, Radionova, Lipnitskaya, Pogorilaya, Leonova, Korobeynikova, Gosviani. That's 8 places out of 18 already gone. Then places will be allocated to those who manage to qualify for JGPF. At the moment we can't really say how many of them it will be, but considering the current results of JGP, I think it is quite likely that there may be 2-3 Russian girls who qualify to JGPF. So that leaves us with only 7 places left for those who will qualify through their international Russian Cup competitions. They will make list according to the order of points and cut it under the seventh girl. If someone withdraws, they will move the cut one lower. Last year 3 withdrew and Fedoseeva, Li and Gosviani were lucky that they got in as substitutes. But I don't think anyone who placed 10th in one of the event has a chance to make it up in the second event.

    This is from last year:
    http://www.fskate.ru/info/rusnat/2013/sel_ladies/

  2. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Let's be realistic. She has no chance in hell to qualify now. Russian nationals have only limited amount of places - 18 for ladies. First places will be allocated to those who competed at GP events, which means: Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva, Radionova, Lipnitskaya, Pogorilaya, Leonova, Korobeynikova, Gosviani. That's 8 places out of 18 already gone. Then places will be allocated to those who manage to qualify for JGPF.
    Not all of JGP Finalists.

    This season is a limitation - 14 years old or elder at date of beginning of Nationals.
    Medvedeva is eligible, Proklova, Sotskova, Sakhanovich, Ogoreltseva - are not.

    And at Russian Cup Events (senior) may take place only singles, who are 14 or elder. And in singles nobody can be at both Junior and Senior Events (only Senior or Junior).

    So elder-age skaters have a chance.
    Agafonova (7 place of Russian Cup I) and Zaseeva (10 place) have not so high chance because of their not so good state.

    Past season Agafonova had two 5th places of Events, Zaseeva two 6th places, i.e. better results of Russian Cup Events - in more difficalt situation, because they competed also with very young skaters. For example, 4 of 5 Ladies who were ahead Zaseeva at Russian Cup V, were younger than 14.

  3. #498
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    What do you mean by that, Alex Russ? are you saying that anyone under the age of 14 can't compete at Russian senior nationals, or are you saying that they won't be able to qualify through the JGPF? If you mean that no one under the age of 14 can attend Senior nationals, then Agafonova and Zaseeva have a good chance because there are not that many 'older' skaters there.

    We can look at the link I posted above (post 496) and see how many of the girls who qualified ahead of Agafonova and Zaseeva will not be able to take part this year.

  4. #499
    EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA CaroLiza_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Let's be realistic. She has no chance in hell to qualify now.
    Erm, wasn't that basically what I said in the post that you were quoting...

    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Russian nationals have only limited amount of places - 18 for ladies. First places will be allocated to those who competed at GP events, which means: Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva, Radionova, Lipnitskaya, Pogorilaya, Leonova, Korobeynikova, Gosviani. That's 8 places out of 18 already gone. Then places will be allocated to those who manage to qualify for JGPF. At the moment we can't really say how many of them it will be, but considering the current results of JGP, I think it is quite likely that there may be 2-3 Russian girls who qualify to JGPF. So that leaves us with only 7 places left for those who will qualify through their international Russian Cup competitions. They will make list according to the order of points and cut it under the seventh girl. If someone withdraws, they will move the cut one lower. Last year 3 withdrew and Fedoseeva, Li and Gosviani were lucky that they got in as substitutes. But I don't think anyone who placed 10th in one of the event has a chance to make it up in the second event.

    This is from last year:
    http://www.fskate.ru/info/rusnat/2013/sel_ladies/
    Thank you so much for the link to the rules on how places are allocated.

    I know I’ve said this before (many times!) in relation to the GP Series, but I don’t understand why the governing bodies only allow such a small number of competitors to compete in competitions like these.

    Like, having only 12 places available in the Pairs competition is ridiculous. Similarly, 15 places in the Dance is also too few. 18 places in the Singles competitions is getting more like it, but is still a bit on the low side when you consider how many singles skaters there are competing in Russia.

    Personally, if it was me, I would have 24 places available in ALL categories in National Championships. You know, 6 groups of 4 competitors, with re-surfacing after every 8 competitors. (Incidentally, for the GP Series, I would have 16 places in each category at each event).

    Whether there are enough entries to fill all the places is another matter, but at least the places would be there if they were needed.

    But, this is getting off topic.

    It will be interesting to see who does join the 8 ladies you have listed in this year’s Nationals. As we have both acknowledged, Kristina Zaseeva won’t qualify this year. But I really hope Polina Agafanova pulls it together for her second qualifying event...

    CaroLiza_fan

  5. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaroLiza_fan View Post
    Erm, wasn't that basically what I said in the post that you were quoting...
    Sorry, CaroLiza_fan, your post seemed to me that you are still hoping (if her second competition was brilliant), whereas I didn't think that realistically there is even the slightest chance. However, if AlexRus is right and under 14 won't be allowed to senior Russian nationals, she may have a chance. It would depend how well she skates in her second event and how badly those who beat her will do in their event. I didn't think there is that many over 14 good skaters, but if all those who beat her are all over 14, I think she has a problem.

  6. #501
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    Can anyone explain to me why the Russian Federation are going to waste one JGP slot? For the next event there is only Medvedeva, and they have so many good ones to send... Why do you bother with nominating substitutes if they don't get send anyway when the slot becomes available? Or why Yushenko didn't get the slot that is going to get wasted this weekend? And why Kaiumova still has second slot, while Ogoreltseva doesn't have her second slot despite finishing second in her first event? Perhaps they are going to swap Yushenko for Kaiumova in the last event?

  7. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Can anyone explain to me why the Russian Federation are going to waste one JGP slot? For the next event there is only Medvedeva, and they have so many good ones to send... Why do you bother with nominating substitutes if they don't get send anyway when the slot becomes available? Or why Yushenko didn't get the slot that is going to get wasted this weekend? And why Kaiumova still has second slot, while Ogoreltseva doesn't have her second slot despite finishing second in her first event? Perhaps they are going to swap Yushenko for Kaiumova in the last event?
    all the substitutes are probbaly not ready like Stavitskaya and Gerasimova
    Ogoreltseva will get a second JGP slot probably replcement for Kayumova who is a non factors, Yuschenko just recently did well in national meets so it must have been too late to put her on the list, there is also Li who has a JGP despite not doing well in recent Russian competition finishing 6th

    other 1 time season skaters like Titushkina, Gerasimova last season have probably retired
    or at least Tiushkina has

  8. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    all the substitutes are probbaly not ready like Stavitskaya and Gerasimova
    Ogoreltseva will get a second JGP slot probably replcement for Kayumova who is a non factors, Yuschenko just recently did well in national meets so it must have been too late to put her on the list, there is also Li who has a JGP despite not doing well in recent Russian competition finishing 6th

    other 1 time season skaters like Titushkina, Gerasimova last season have probably retired
    or at least Tiushkina has
    But if Ogoreltseva (who was put there as substitute) got the spot, in the meantime someone else would be able to replace Kaiumova later on, when they are ready. Why waste it? Or even if they had to send someone who is 'not ready', in Russian terms not ready would probably mean something like 7th place as opposed to medalling. Why rather waste the spot than sending someone who may be slightly weaker?

    Titushkina retired? Since when? I haven't heard anything.

  9. #504
    Custom Title DobrinFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    What do you mean by that, Alex Russ? are you saying that anyone under the age of 14 can't compete at Russian senior nationals, or are you saying that they won't be able to qualify through the JGPF? If you mean that no one under the age of 14 can attend Senior nationals, then Agafonova and Zaseeva have a good chance because there are not that many 'older' skaters there.

    We can look at the link I posted above (post 496) and see how many of the girls who qualified ahead of Agafonova and Zaseeva will not be able to take part this year.
    Maksimova is the youngest skater who finished ahead of Agafonova but she turned 14 in February. Between Agafonova and Zaseeva only Lebedeva may not be old enough, she was born in 1999 but there is no month/day listed. All the rest of the girls are 15 and older. So it's not looking good but there is still a 2nd event but I'm not holding my breathe especially if only age eligible girls are allowed to compete. Oh well.....

  10. #505
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    I don't think there is such a rule. Adelina won senior national championships when she was only 12 years old. Liza also competed in senior nationals at that age.

  11. #506
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    Last year there were some other very young skaters in senior nationals (Sakhanovitch, Ogoreltseva etc). But AlexRus says that it's a new rule for this season. So the irony is that some of those who were allowed to compete in seniors last season won't be allowed to compete in seniors any more until they are 14. On one side I think it's a pity, but I can understand the reason behind that. It must be difficult to have the majority of ladies in seniors age ineligible for Europeans/worlds. Then you have no one to send to those important competitions. Then you may have to send a skater who placed 4th and 6th as it was a few years ago.

  12. #507
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    I think it's a good rule. It looks bad when you send skaters to Euros and Worlds who were beaten at their Nationals by a skater not eligible for another 4 years.

  13. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Last year there were some other very young skaters in senior nationals (Sakhanovitch, Ogoreltseva etc). But AlexRus says that it's a new rule for this season. So the irony is that some of those who were allowed to compete in seniors last season won't be allowed to compete in seniors any more until they are 14. On one side I think it's a pity, but I can understand the reason behind that. It must be difficult to have the majority of ladies in seniors age ineligible for Europeans/worlds. Then you have no one to send to those important competitions. Then you may have to send a skater who placed 4th and 6th as it was a few years ago.
    Then I also agree it is a good rule. Figure skating must be something more than just a game of tiny bodies. So I don't think it is fair when a 12 years old beats a 20 years old. Because the 20 years old girl can't do the tricks anymore. I thought they also changed the rule for the senior grand prix. But when I look at Radionova competing there it is as if nothing has changed. And I love Radionova.

  14. #509
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    They did change the rule for senior GP, but only from the season after Olympics.

    To be honest, I don't mind if 12 years old compete against 20 years old. Yes, they do have the advantage of being lighter and having tinier bodies, but then again they have disadvantage of not having the maturity and the skating skills, so it balances itself out. This is a sport and it will never be completely fair. One could argue that it is not fair that some 16-17 years old is competing against 30 year old because the older skaters would have more injuries, stiffer joints and everything gets harder at that age. So if it is considered fair that you may compete against someone half your age (16 y.o. against 32 years old), then I think it is fair that 12 years old are competing against 20 years old.

  15. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post

    Titushkina retired? Since when? I haven't heard anything.
    Titushkina hasnt been training since her injury last years fall
    I guess she is heading the Shershak, Sheveleva route who are retired

    some of this skaters wont make big nationally anyways
    Gersimova, Titushkina etc. were bound to retire, its a wonder Agafonova hans't retired despite placing 7-9th in national competitions

    I think this 14 years old rule is better, those 12 year old wonders some wont be the same in 2 years and wont probably make another nationals
    so this year only Medvedeva can compete from the current JGP skaters, Proklova, Sakhanovich, Sotskova cannot

    men wont be affected much in JGP, Petrov is 14, Pitkeev and Samarin just turned 15

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