Pechalat/Bourzat switch to Shpilband (May 20)

gmyers · May 20, 2013

P/B made a good decision. I think they can't look like they did in 2013 worlds. Even though Bourzats injury was the main problem they have to look like they are back in the main power of ice dance and that is the whole zueva spiliband sphere even though they broke up. This should make them number 3 if they are healthy. After that is C/L. After C/L could be the fast rising. C/B. B/S just don't have it. They were incredibly lucky to win bronze with their 4th place free dance that was an embarrassment. The main battle for third will probably be P/B and C/L to win in Sochi. I would bet on P/B. They were still in that third place position in 2012 grand prix final.

sky_fly20 · May 21, 2013

gmyers said:
P/B made a good decision. I think they can't look like they did in 2013 worlds. Even though Bourzats injury was the main problem they have to look like they are back in the main power of ice dance and that is the whole zueva spiliband sphere even though they broke up. This should make them number 3 if they are healthy. After that is C/L. After C/L could be the fast rising. C/B. B/S just don't have it. They were incredibly lucky to win bronze with their 4th place free dance that was an embarrassment. The main battle for third will probably be P/B and C/L to win in Sochi. I would bet on P/B. They were still in that third place position in 2012 grand prix final.

with the rate of teams going to Shipilband, Zoeva will be done after Sochi,
she was always the one to lose in the long term

FSGMT · May 21, 2013

CAS said:
Because it's the Olympics and there are always surprises at the Olympics. Politics are always greatest during the Olympics. At this point I'd say V&M pulled the short stick in the political battle between them, D&W, B&S and P&B. The only thing that will save them is another Mahler (not literally of course, but something just as powerful that cannot be denied).

Not in ice dance! :laugh:

(except some rare cases, like 1994...)

sky_fly20 · May 21, 2013

FSGMT said:
Not in ice dance! (except some rare cases, like 1994...)

ice coverage · May 21, 2013

Eddie Lee said:
Just watched 2010 Olympic OD and FD of V/M. Both were breath-takingly beautiful AND perfection. IF they can match those performances in Sochi, THEY WILL WIN GOLD. ... Is Zoueva up to the choreographic perfection she tailored for them in 2010? If so, are V/M mentally and physically up to the task of skating it with passion AND perfection? The verdict awaits!

The good news is that at least two other choreographers (Jennifer Swan and Jean Marc Genereux) are working with Virtue/Moir on their Olympic programs for Sochi.

Mathman said:
^ I think the feeling about Virtue and Moir is that they peaked two or three years ago and are struggling now to hold their place. The physical strains alone appear to be taking their toll.

After Virtue's second surgery in 2010, V/M came back to win Worlds in Nice only fourteen months ago. And although the past season was not V/M's best, they won the SD at Four Continents only three months ago (defeating Davis/White's much-admired Giselle). A second Olympic gold for V/M, if healthy, remains within reach, IMHO.

TontoK said:
The die is cast for post Sochi. ... Marina's stable will need to be refilled. Only the Shibs will be left...

I wonder whether the Shibutanis will stick with Zoueva after Sochi. The Shibs frequently say that a crucial advantage of Canton is training alongside V/M and D/W. If the older couples both retire, will their absence spur the Shibs to move on to another coach? :popcorn:

BlackPack · May 21, 2013

Sad that a P/B thread turned into a V/M lovefest.

Mathman · May 21, 2013

TontoK said:
Although I agree in general, a lot will depend on the programs. People can ooh and ahh over Carmen all they want, but I thought it was only OK.

I thought the Carmen program had great potential, but it was never performed well. That is one of the reasons that I am not so optimistic going forward.

Mathman · May 21, 2013

Here is an interview with Natalie form a French newspaper.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Patinage-artistique/Actualites/Pechalat-waouh-le-mec/372527

Here is a quick translation by poster skatak on fsu (post 46).

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?88157-Pechalat-Bourzat-move-to-Shpilband/page3

Natalie says that Comerlengo did not take the news well (he was "mean and hurtful").Evidently the move was dictated by Didier Gailhaguet, who was mad at Camerlengo after last season's disappointments (he called Camerlengo a "worm").

Ah, ice dance!

demarinis5 · May 21, 2013

^Thanks for the links. Ahhh the drama of ice dance always has been newsworthy. Seems like Pasquale's temper was in
full throttle and poor Natalie caught the brunt of it.

Best wishes to Natalie and Fabian!

Mirunna · May 21, 2013

gmyers said:
P/B made a good decision. I think they can't look like they did in 2013 worlds. Even though Bourzats injury was the main problem they have to look like they are back in the main power of ice dance and that is the whole zueva spiliband sphere even though they broke up. This should make them number 3 if they are healthy. After that is C/L. After C/L could be the fast rising. C/B. B/S just don't have it. They were incredibly lucky to win bronze with their 4th place free dance that was an embarrassment. The main battle for third will probably be P/B and C/L to win in Sochi. I would bet on P/B. They were still in that third place position in 2012 grand prix final.

Igor is the one who can get level 4 for them which is what they need since they already have good PCS. If Igor made it possible for C/L to get a level 4 on steps at the GPF when D/W and V/M didn't, why is it so impossible for P/B to do it? Everyone just keeps calling them "done" but this has been said so many times and they always managed to get back in top 3. After 2011 worlds disaster they came back with an amazing season and even last season they beat every team except D/W and V/M until Fabian's surgery.The scores the Russians put at worlds are beatable (in fact, I believe the French couple got higher scores until the injury than the Russians at worlds). I agree with you on this and I would put my money on P/B to get the Olympic bronze

FSGMT · May 21, 2013

Mathman said:
Evidently the move was dictated by Didier Gailhaguet, who was mad at Camerlengo after last season's disappointments (he called Camerlengo a "worm").

:disapp: That man is disgusting...

Skater Boy · May 21, 2013

aftertherain said:
I agree, but I think it's more of a physical peak. Artistically, they're still the best (though D/W are making it increasingly difficult for them), but D/W have progressed at a rate much faster than they have in all aspects (e.g. their speed is unbelievable). And personally speaking, I find D/W's programs more pleasing to watch in general.

I agree for the most part but D/W and I know the scoring system doesn't take this into consideration really does the same stuff; V and M make more errors and I think it has to do with some physical issues injuries and height/weight but D/W never can truly be great as artistically they were like Navka and Kostomorov great but artistically blah and didn't really try different things whereas Bourne and Kratz showed more versatility.

I wish D and W well but I wish there was some way of rewarding V and M for their innovativeness and versatility. It is a bit like the great Michelle Kwan - her programs really looked similar -- different costume but had a similar look about it - though gorgeous. D and W aren't at that level but everything kind of looks the same. Now I will be criticized and D/W fans will differ I am just saying they haven't really taken chances.

Mathman · May 21, 2013

^ I don't think the IJS is set up to reward originality, creativity, novelty, etc. A level four twizzle sequence is still a level four even if you have been doing the exact same sequence, regardless of the music, in every program for five years.

As for the incomparable Michelle Kwan, yeah, her approach was, "if its not broke, don't fix it." Five world championships later...

FSGMT · May 21, 2013

Skater Boy said:
I agree for the most part but D/W and I know the scoring system doesn't take this into consideration really does the same stuff; V and M make more errors and I think it has to do with some physical issues injuries and height/weight but D/W never can truly be great as artistically they were like Navka and Kostomorov great but artistically blah and didn't really try different things whereas Bourne and Kratz showed more versatility.

I wish D and W well but I wish there was some way of rewarding V and M for their innovativeness and versatility. It is a bit like the great Michelle Kwan - her programs really looked similar -- different costume but had a similar look about it - though gorgeous. D and W aren't at that level but everything kind of looks the same. Now I will be criticized and D/W fans will differ I am just saying they haven't really taken chances.

No, I agree: I LOVE Davis and White, but I feel that V/M have had a more "complete" career, artistically: if you compare V/M's programs from 2009/2010 to all of the things that they did after them , they're completely different; if you compare this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OLzIvi1FbA to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2auou58sUa0 there are some differences, but not a lot, the programs are similar, the style is similar, the elements are similar... Beautiful, but always almost the same...

sky_fly20 · May 21, 2013

some politcking will happen no doubt but looks like good news for W/P as they will have the undivided attention now of C/K

tulosai · May 21, 2013

Mathman said:
^ I think the feeling about Virtue and Moir is that they peaked two or three years ago and are struggling now to hold their place. The physical strains alone appear to be taking their toll.

This, and actually I think it largely is physical strain having taken its toll which is a pity. I do not agree with the sentiment that they are still superior to D/W artistically (as stated by others) though. They do have a romantic vibe that D/W don't, but thatn God that's not all there is to artistry. I think the people who think it is are really missing out.

deedee1 · May 21, 2013

Taste differs.

Back to topic: If P/B believes the best choice for them is to move to Igor camp, then we fans support their decision, root for them and wish them good luck, just like we have been doing so far.

I sincerely hope Nathalie and Fabian to have the best season, which is injury-free!

arty:

KKonas · May 21, 2013

Skater Boy said:
I wish D and W well but I wish there was some way of rewarding V and M for their innovativeness and versatility. It is a bit like the great Michelle Kwan - her programs really looked similar -- different costume but had a similar look about it - though gorgeous. D and W aren't at that level but everything kind of looks the same. Now I will be criticized and D/W fans will differ I am just saying they haven't really taken chances.

Facts please! So Bollywood wasn’t taking chances against the overused flamenco in 2010? And D/W’s complex tango and stunning Der Fledermaus waltz wasn’t different from each other and Samson&Delilah? And Giselle ballet wasn’t the best interpretation of the polka OD? Some people just refuse to see what is there and rely on stereotypical comments generated by those with their own biases.

uncchristine99 · May 21, 2013

Hmm... well, I won't say Pechalat/Bourzat are washed up but I personally never found them very interesting to begin with. I don't know if Schpilband can save them but I don't think he can hurt them. They were always a distant 3rd in my mind and now there are several teams that can challenge for 3rd so the heat is on.

And I agree with several of you--I will be utterly shocked if D/W and V/M don't finish 1-2 in some fashion but my 3rd place bias is Cappellini/Lanotte. Assuming D/W and V/M both retire after Sochi, I'll be interested to hear who's moving to Zoueva's camp.

Macassar88 · May 21, 2013

Skater Boy said:
I agree for the most part but D/W and I know the scoring system doesn't take this into consideration really does the same stuff; V and M make more errors and I think it has to do with some physical issues injuries and height/weight but D/W never can truly be great as artistically they were like Navka and Kostomorov great but artistically blah and didn't really try different things whereas Bourne and Kratz showed more versatility.

I wish D and W well but I wish there was some way of rewarding V and M for their innovativeness and versatility. It is a bit like the great Michelle Kwan - her programs really looked similar -- different costume but had a similar look about it - though gorgeous. D and W aren't at that level but everything kind of looks the same. Now I will be criticized and D/W fans will differ I am just saying they haven't really taken chances.

Why do Navka and Kostomarov get so much hate? I loved their Pink Panther and most of their OD's. I also loved the fact that she was voguing something fierce in The Feeling Begins. Honestly though Carmen deserved to win the Olympics that year and the Cha Cha part of their OD was great. The dark mark on their career was that Tosca monstrosity.
If only they hadn't been in the unfortunate advent of IJS where dance on the whole suffered.

Pechalat/Bourzat switch to Shpilband (May 20)

gmyers

sky_fly20

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FSGMT

sky_fly20

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ice coverage

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BlackPack

Mathman

Mathman

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

Mirunna

FSGMT

Skater Boy

Mathman

FSGMT

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

tulosai

deedee1

KKonas

uncchristine99

Macassar88

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