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Thread: Pechalat/Bourzat switch to Shpilband (May 20)

  1. #16
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    Wow. Can't believe the current thought process about the top dance teams here. Barring injury or some other such disaster, there is not a single team current or on the horizon that is even in the same league as V/M or D/W. Those 2 teams are going to finish 1 and 2 in some order. My personal opinion, that happens to be shared by many other experts including fellow competitors and other coaches, is that V/M are special. While Carmen may not have been appreciated by some spectators and judges, it is a masterpiece that breaks new boundaries in IJS, a true marriage of art and dance, and extreme sport. What V/M do is more difficult than anyone else, at a level of quality far above anything else. The IJS does not properly distinguish innovation, quality, variety of holds and positions, matching leg lines, matching pointed toes, depth of edge, adherence to dance, etc in GOE or PCS. The current trend is to love speed and tricks at the expense of all that. But I think there has been a lot of conversation around what V/M have done, and a ringing endorsement and respect and praise for what V/M do across the coaching community, including in Russia, and among their fellow competitors. I hope that this will be remembered by the judges when they judge competitions this coming Olympic season. If V/M skate clean, I expect they will prevail. If they aren't clean, I expect they will be 2nd. Both V/M and D/W are well loved in Russia. I think both teams will be fine.

    The big question will be about the 3rd spot on the podium. There is a line-up crowding in for that spot: P/B, W/P, B/S, C/L would be my top picks. P/B may or may not benefit from this move. I think they've benefited from skating with W/P in the same way V/M and D/W push each other along. I think some further technical grounding where they are the #1 team for sure may help them. I think that W/P had an off year with injury and lousy programs. I think they will be ready to soar, and no one can question their work ethic and determination. With B/S, they made huge progress last season, have a great coaching situation, and I expect they will be inspired with Olympics at home. And don't count out C/L, who languished for a few years, but have since been making steady, real progress, and could be a spoiler for 3rd if others don't rise to the occasion and they do.

  2. #17
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    ^ I think the feeling about Virtue and Moir is that they peaked two or three years ago and are struggling now to hold their place. The physical strains alone appear to be taking their toll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    I frankly didn't expect this, we don't usually see a lot of coaching changes before the Olympic season, especially the top skaters... Now there will be the battle for the gold in Team Zoueva, and the battle for the bronze in Team Shpilband (+ Zhulin)...
    I would certainly add Camerlego-Krylova, because you cannot discount Weaver/Poje, at least i won't

  4. #19
    Blue-footed Booby aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ I think the feeling about Virtue and Moir is that they peaked two or three years ago and are struggling now to hold their place. The physical strains alone appear to be taking their toll.
    I agree, but I think it's more of a physical peak. Artistically, they're still the best (though D/W are making it increasingly difficult for them), but D/W have progressed at a rate much faster than they have in all aspects (e.g. their speed is unbelievable). And personally speaking, I find D/W's programs more pleasing to watch in general.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ I think the feeling about Virtue and Moir is that they peaked two or three years ago and are struggling now to hold their place. The physical strains alone appear to be taking their toll.
    Although I agree in general, a lot will depend on the programs. People can ooh and ahh over Carmen all they want, but I thought it was only OK. Notre Dame was magnificent. DF was a masterpiece; I was shocked the program didn't win a WC.

    Giselle was the finest thing I've ever seen in ice dancing, and that includes T&D.

    However, if we look back to D&W first WC, the tango program wouldn't win now, just two years later.

    Back on topic: P/B are yesterday's news. Their time has passed. Their most recent free dance was a technical and artistic mess, and I don't think even Shpilband will be able to retool this couple. The die is cast for post Sochi. It will be the Russians, the Italians, and C/B duking it out on the podium. The bronze medal winner in Sochi will have the upper hand.

    Marina's stable will need to be refilled. Only the Shibs will be left...

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    P/B made a good decision. I think they can't look like they did in 2013 worlds. Even though Bourzats injury was the main problem they have to look like they are back in the main power of ice dance and that is the whole zueva spiliband sphere even though they broke up. This should make them number 3 if they are healthy. After that is C/L. After C/L could be the fast rising. C/B. B/S just don't have it. They were incredibly lucky to win bronze with their 4th place free dance that was an embarrassment. The main battle for third will probably be P/B and C/L to win in Sochi. I would bet on P/B. They were still in that third place position in 2012 grand prix final.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    P/B made a good decision. I think they can't look like they did in 2013 worlds. Even though Bourzats injury was the main problem they have to look like they are back in the main power of ice dance and that is the whole zueva spiliband sphere even though they broke up. This should make them number 3 if they are healthy. After that is C/L. After C/L could be the fast rising. C/B. B/S just don't have it. They were incredibly lucky to win bronze with their 4th place free dance that was an embarrassment. The main battle for third will probably be P/B and C/L to win in Sochi. I would bet on P/B. They were still in that third place position in 2012 grand prix final.
    with the rate of teams going to Shipilband, Zoeva will be done after Sochi,
    she was always the one to lose in the long term

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAS View Post
    Because it's the Olympics and there are always surprises at the Olympics. Politics are always greatest during the Olympics. At this point I'd say V&M pulled the short stick in the political battle between them, D&W, B&S and P&B. The only thing that will save them is another Mahler (not literally of course, but something just as powerful that cannot be denied).
    Not in ice dance! (except some rare cases, like 1994...)

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Not in ice dance! (except some rare cases, like 1994...)

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Lee View Post
    Just watched 2010 Olympic OD and FD of V/M. Both were breath-takingly beautiful AND perfection. IF they can match those performances in Sochi, THEY WILL WIN GOLD. ... Is Zoueva up to the choreographic perfection she tailored for them in 2010? If so, are V/M mentally and physically up to the task of skating it with passion AND perfection? The verdict awaits!
    The good news is that at least two other choreographers (Jennifer Swan and Jean Marc Genereux) are working with Virtue/Moir on their Olympic programs for Sochi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ I think the feeling about Virtue and Moir is that they peaked two or three years ago and are struggling now to hold their place. The physical strains alone appear to be taking their toll.
    After Virtue's second surgery in 2010, V/M came back to win Worlds in Nice only fourteen months ago. And although the past season was not V/M's best, they won the SD at Four Continents only three months ago (defeating Davis/White's much-admired Giselle). A second Olympic gold for V/M, if healthy, remains within reach, IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    The die is cast for post Sochi. ... Marina's stable will need to be refilled. Only the Shibs will be left...
    I wonder whether the Shibutanis will stick with Zoueva after Sochi. The Shibs frequently say that a crucial advantage of Canton is training alongside V/M and D/W. If the older couples both retire, will their absence spur the Shibs to move on to another coach?

  11. #26
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    Sad that a P/B thread turned into a V/M lovefest.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    Although I agree in general, a lot will depend on the programs. People can ooh and ahh over Carmen all they want, but I thought it was only OK.
    I thought the Carmen program had great potential, but it was never performed well. That is one of the reasons that I am not so optimistic going forward.

  13. #28
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    Here is an interview with Natalie form a French newspaper.

    http://www.lequipe.fr/Patinage-artis...-le-mec/372527

    Here is a quick translation by poster skatak on fsu (post 46).

    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...hpilband/page3

    Natalie says that Comerlengo did not take the news well (he was "mean and hurtful").Evidently the move was dictated by Didier Gailhaguet, who was mad at Camerlengo after last season's disappointments (he called Camerlengo a "worm").

    Ah, ice dance!

  14. #29
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    ^Thanks for the links. Ahhh the drama of ice dance always has been newsworthy. Seems like Pasquale's temper was in
    full throttle and poor Natalie caught the brunt of it.

    Best wishes to Natalie and Fabian!

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    P/B made a good decision. I think they can't look like they did in 2013 worlds. Even though Bourzats injury was the main problem they have to look like they are back in the main power of ice dance and that is the whole zueva spiliband sphere even though they broke up. This should make them number 3 if they are healthy. After that is C/L. After C/L could be the fast rising. C/B. B/S just don't have it. They were incredibly lucky to win bronze with their 4th place free dance that was an embarrassment. The main battle for third will probably be P/B and C/L to win in Sochi. I would bet on P/B. They were still in that third place position in 2012 grand prix final.

    Igor is the one who can get level 4 for them which is what they need since they already have good PCS. If Igor made it possible for C/L to get a level 4 on steps at the GPF when D/W and V/M didn't, why is it so impossible for P/B to do it? Everyone just keeps calling them "done" but this has been said so many times and they always managed to get back in top 3. After 2011 worlds disaster they came back with an amazing season and even last season they beat every team except D/W and V/M until Fabian's surgery.The scores the Russians put at worlds are beatable (in fact, I believe the French couple got higher scores until the injury than the Russians at worlds). I agree with you on this and I would put my money on P/B to get the Olympic bronze

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