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Thread: Pechalat/Bourzat switch to Shpilband (May 20)

  1. #31
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Evidently the move was dictated by Didier Gailhaguet, who was mad at Camerlengo after last season's disappointments (he called Camerlengo a "worm").
    That man is disgusting...

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    I agree, but I think it's more of a physical peak. Artistically, they're still the best (though D/W are making it increasingly difficult for them), but D/W have progressed at a rate much faster than they have in all aspects (e.g. their speed is unbelievable). And personally speaking, I find D/W's programs more pleasing to watch in general.
    I agree for the most part but D/W and I know the scoring system doesn't take this into consideration really does the same stuff; V and M make more errors and I think it has to do with some physical issues injuries and height/weight but D/W never can truly be great as artistically they were like Navka and Kostomorov great but artistically blah and didn't really try different things whereas Bourne and Kratz showed more versatility.

    I wish D and W well but I wish there was some way of rewarding V and M for their innovativeness and versatility. It is a bit like the great Michelle Kwan - her programs really looked similar -- different costume but had a similar look about it - though gorgeous. D and W aren't at that level but everything kind of looks the same. Now I will be criticized and D/W fans will differ I am just saying they haven't really taken chances.

  3. #33
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    ^ I don't think the IJS is set up to reward originality, creativity, novelty, etc. A level four twizzle sequence is still a level four even if you have been doing the exact same sequence, regardless of the music, in every program for five years.

    As for the incomparable Michelle Kwan, yeah, her approach was, "if its not broke, don't fix it." Five world championships later...

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I agree for the most part but D/W and I know the scoring system doesn't take this into consideration really does the same stuff; V and M make more errors and I think it has to do with some physical issues injuries and height/weight but D/W never can truly be great as artistically they were like Navka and Kostomorov great but artistically blah and didn't really try different things whereas Bourne and Kratz showed more versatility.

    I wish D and W well but I wish there was some way of rewarding V and M for their innovativeness and versatility. It is a bit like the great Michelle Kwan - her programs really looked similar -- different costume but had a similar look about it - though gorgeous. D and W aren't at that level but everything kind of looks the same. Now I will be criticized and D/W fans will differ I am just saying they haven't really taken chances.
    No, I agree: I LOVE Davis and White, but I feel that V/M have had a more "complete" career, artistically: if you compare V/M's programs from 2009/2010 to all of the things that they did after them , they're completely different; if you compare this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OLzIvi1FbA to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2auou58sUa0 there are some differences, but not a lot, the programs are similar, the style is similar, the elements are similar... Beautiful, but always almost the same...

  5. #35
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    some politcking will happen no doubt but looks like good news for W/P as they will have the undivided attention now of C/K

  6. #36
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ I think the feeling about Virtue and Moir is that they peaked two or three years ago and are struggling now to hold their place. The physical strains alone appear to be taking their toll.
    This, and actually I think it largely is physical strain having taken its toll which is a pity. I do not agree with the sentiment that they are still superior to D/W artistically (as stated by others) though. They do have a romantic vibe that D/W don't, but thatn God that's not all there is to artistry. I think the people who think it is are really missing out.

  7. #37
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    Taste differs.
    Back to topic: If P/B believes the best choice for them is to move to Igor camp, then we fans support their decision, root for them and wish them good luck, just like we have been doing so far.

    I sincerely hope Nathalie and Fabian to have the best season, which is injury-free!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post

    I wish D and W well but I wish there was some way of rewarding V and M for their innovativeness and versatility. It is a bit like the great Michelle Kwan - her programs really looked similar -- different costume but had a similar look about it - though gorgeous. D and W aren't at that level but everything kind of looks the same. Now I will be criticized and D/W fans will differ I am just saying they haven't really taken chances.
    Facts please! So Bollywood wasn’t taking chances against the overused flamenco in 2010? And D/W’s complex tango and stunning Der Fledermaus waltz wasn’t different from each other and Samson&Delilah? And Giselle ballet wasn’t the best interpretation of the polka OD? Some people just refuse to see what is there and rely on stereotypical comments generated by those with their own biases.

  9. #39
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    Hmm... well, I won't say Pechalat/Bourzat are washed up but I personally never found them very interesting to begin with. I don't know if Schpilband can save them but I don't think he can hurt them. They were always a distant 3rd in my mind and now there are several teams that can challenge for 3rd so the heat is on.

    And I agree with several of you--I will be utterly shocked if D/W and V/M don't finish 1-2 in some fashion but my 3rd place bias is Cappellini/Lanotte. Assuming D/W and V/M both retire after Sochi, I'll be interested to hear who's moving to Zoueva's camp.

  10. #40
    Huge Scott Moir Fan Macassar88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I agree for the most part but D/W and I know the scoring system doesn't take this into consideration really does the same stuff; V and M make more errors and I think it has to do with some physical issues injuries and height/weight but D/W never can truly be great as artistically they were like Navka and Kostomorov great but artistically blah and didn't really try different things whereas Bourne and Kratz showed more versatility.

    I wish D and W well but I wish there was some way of rewarding V and M for their innovativeness and versatility. It is a bit like the great Michelle Kwan - her programs really looked similar -- different costume but had a similar look about it - though gorgeous. D and W aren't at that level but everything kind of looks the same. Now I will be criticized and D/W fans will differ I am just saying they haven't really taken chances.
    Why do Navka and Kostomarov get so much hate? I loved their Pink Panther and most of their OD's. I also loved the fact that she was voguing something fierce in The Feeling Begins. Honestly though Carmen deserved to win the Olympics that year and the Cha Cha part of their OD was great. The dark mark on their career was that Tosca monstrosity.
    If only they hadn't been in the unfortunate advent of IJS where dance on the whole suffered.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncchristine99 View Post
    Hmm... well, I won't say Pechalat/Bourzat are washed up but I personally never found them very interesting to begin with. I don't know if Schpilband can save them but I don't think he can hurt them. They were always a distant 3rd in my mind and now there are several teams that can challenge for 3rd so the heat is on.

    And I agree with several of you--I will be utterly shocked if D/W and V/M don't finish 1-2 in some fashion but my 3rd place bias is Cappellini/Lanotte. Assuming D/W and V/M both retire after Sochi, I'll be interested to hear who's moving to Zoueva's camp.
    I think V/M are done for sure after Sochi. D/W I do not see retiring but I could be wrong. They don't have any injuries that we know of (at least not serious ones) and for some reason I get the vibe that they are not ready to be done. If an OGM would change that is open for debate, I suppose.

  12. #42
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Wow, what a shock!

    I think P&B will do very well with Igor. Fabian's twizzles need a little of the Shpilband magic, and P&B have done well but not perfections in the SD pattern dances. Igor's team of Fusar-Poli & Klimova (and himself of course) have been very successful to help teams up their technical ante. I just hope C&B and C&L don't get lost in this shuffle.

    I don't think P&B are done, I don't think they're boring, and they have done amazing the last 2 seasons considering their injuries and difficulties. One can't deny however, that age is not on their side.

    I believe V&M have always said they will retire next year, D&W said not, but if they win the Olympics, I would not be surprised if they do retire--which would be a leg up for every other country's dance teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ I think the feeling about Virtue and Moir is that they peaked two or three years ago and are struggling now to hold their place. The physical strains alone appear to be taking their toll.
    I suspect that Virtue's leg injuries are a bigger problem than they are letting on, and as a result cannot skate with the sheer power and abandon they had in Vancouver. But to say that Sochi is going to be--at least at this point--anything other than an epic battle between Voir and Marlie for the gold and at least a four-way dogfight for the bronze is to ignore the past three years of ice dance.

    But yes, things can change. The question is, how much?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    Facts please! So Bollywood wasn’t taking chances against the overused flamenco in 2010? And D/W’s complex tango and stunning Der Fledermaus waltz wasn’t different from each other and Samson&Delilah? And Giselle ballet wasn’t the best interpretation of the polka OD? Some people just refuse to see what is there and rely on stereotypical comments generated by those with their own biases.
    This ^ x a zillion.

    The reason why the Notre Dame dance wasn't as successful for me as a piece of choreography was precisely because it seemed to a step backward after three years of technical and artistic progress for Marlie. And even this year, Charlie in particular has made great artistic strides, particularly in his connection to Meryl AND his control--he's finally showing that he can hold back and control that amazing power of his, to hold then release a move, rather than go balls-to-the-walls as he did for years. I would love to see Marlie skate that tango program now--that choreography was intense (enough so that they had to change it in order to temper the momentum of the program at one point), and with their undeniable improvements in connection and control, I think it would really be something. There is no doubt that Voir are the more naturally gifted, but to deny that Marlie hasn't taken incredible chances with their artistry--and succeeded beautifully--is something I cannot disagree with more strongly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    Igor is the one who can get level 4 for them which is what they need since they already have good PCS. If Igor made it possible for C/L to get a level 4 on steps at the GPF when D/W and V/M didn't, why is it so impossible for P/B to do it? Everyone just keeps calling them "done" but this has been said so many times and they always managed to get back in top 3. After 2011 worlds disaster they came back with an amazing season and even last season they beat every team except D/W and V/M until Fabian's surgery.The scores the Russians put at worlds are beatable (in fact, I believe the French couple got higher scores until the injury than the Russians at worlds). I agree with you on this and I would put my money on P/B to get the Olympic bronze
    Yeah the PCS for P/B totally indicates they are right in there for third place. They do need to improve their TES and that could be done by healing from Fabian and good coaching by Shpiliband. So P/B are right in the place of returning to 3rd and did really well in the SD in London considering the injury and tremendous amount of lost training time! Like a HUGE amount of training time was lost. More than when Pechalat broke her nose. THe nose breaking wasn't as bad as what Fabian had! That was real bad. But now they can return and do well and have no doubt. There is nothing going on that could reduce the PCS of VM or DW from 58 down to the P/B B/S 53 and nothing that can raise 53 to 58 in free dances for any team. The PCS barrier is just enormous and shows that only the retirements of both VM and DW will make worlds golds conceivable for any other team. Right not for every team in the world but VM and DW gold and silver are totally inconceivable for any other team to even think of or consider and every team knows that for the GPF and Olympics the only slot open if DW and VM are there is bronze and no non VM or DW can even dream about even silver.

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