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Thread: Pushing the artistic boundaries of skating

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8ingcoach View Post
    For ladies Carolina Kostner and Akiko Suzuki are absolutely pushing the boundaries. From Carolina's Bolero to her Allegretto from Trio No. 2. She has not just pushed the boundaries she has knocked the right down. Akiko also with her Hungarian rhapsody to her O program. Mao and Yuna also push the boundaries ( not as much as kostner and suzuki ). Mao's i got rhythm program was fantastic, and was a side of Mao we had never seen before.

    I cant really think of any current men that push the boundaries. Some of them skate very nice like daisuke, jeremy even patrick. But none really push boundaries and i think it because there is such a high demand on jump difficulty.

    Pairs is hard too. Savchenko and Szolkowy i guess push boundaries. Pink panther was absolutely pushing the boundaries. They tried again this past season with the bolero, but it didnt work for them. Sometimes pushing the boundaries cannot work. Sometimes its good to stick with what you know will be good instead of doing a mediocre flamenco bolero that got worse and worse.

    V/M absolutely push boundaries this season with Carmen, but i personally didn't think it was good for them. They were to focused on trying to portray the story, didnt think about the rest. Their olympics program pushed boundaries for sure and it worked well, especially the OD

    D/W sometimes push themselves but not as much as V/M
    Your definition of "pushing boundaries" must be completely different from mine. There's not a single example you mentioned in this post that pushes any boundaries for the sport of skating whatsoever, except maybe within the skaters' own personal range of experience.

    IMO, there hasn't been a lot of artistic boundary pushing for figure skating as a sport, since the mid-1990's. There have been some great programs to be sure, but that by itself doesn't constitute moving the artistic frontiers of skating farther than they've been before. I'm groping to think of a single example in any discipline under IJS, and am coming up short.

  2. #17
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    IJS doesn't encourage artistic risk taking. The TES score, SS and TR are all technical skills.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    IJS doesn't encourage artistic risk taking. The TES score, SS and TR are all technical skills.
    Yeah, many including me have to agree with mskater...IJS does not enough reward skaters who shine in the rest of PCS categories these days. <in a small voice> Dai's blues for klook for instance comes to my mind.

    Here are mine!
    From this past 2012-13 season, no one else's comes close for me!
    Zhiganshina Gazsi Zombie Free http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM2WBdyildo

    More from the past:
    -Ilia 'Pierrot' Klimkin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoffyrAD3U8
    -Davis/White Bollywood
    -Daisuke Takahashi's Cyber Swan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRkdoLxPdD8

    For the first three programs, Doris beat me though.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    IJS doesn't encourage artistic risk taking. The TES score, SS and TR are all technical skills.
    I think PCS is half technical, half artistic... SS and TR are technical, PE and IN are artistic, and CH is part technical and part artistic for me. And that's fine with me. Since this is a sport so it's important to have solid difficulty and a exhibit a strong skating foundation. When you get into subjective, artistic qualities like PE and IN, the judges have more leeway.

    For singles/pairs skating, I'd rather artistic boundaries are pushed in exhibitions and technical proficiency is maintained/rewarded in competition. In ice dance, however, it is much easier to push artistic boundaries (I mean, it's a dance after all).

  5. #20
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    deedee1, I totally agree about Dai's Cyberswan! I was privileged enough to see it live at Skate America. Gorgeous, and yes, I hadn't seen anything like it before.

  6. #21
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    I agree, that's one of my favourite SPs of his. And a perfect example of how the system can still allow for great choreography and interpretation, but have the difficulty as well. Those footwork sequences were to die for (maybe one too many head snaps though, lol).

  7. #22
    Custom Title christinaskater's Avatar
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    Akiko is truly astounding in terms of musicality and artistry.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=ohsTB5gGaXk Here she skates with violinist Iwao Furusawa plays the violin.

    Her body becomes one with the music. Such a rare gift. She gives a feeling of flight and magic when she skates. The last time I really felt the magic was when a certain Michelle Kwan left the sport. I am really happy she is pushing the boundaries of musicality and artistry.

    Daisuke and Akiko are like really special skaters.

    Carolina is also phenomenal. I became a fan when I saw her skate to "Prelude to an Afternoon Faun" at Worlds 2011. She also became one with the music. Her interpretation of "Bolero" is simply phenomenal.

    Akiko, Daisuke and Carolina are killing it in solo skating.

  8. #23
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Akiko is a special skater, but what exact artistic boundary did she push or break?

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    Abbott, Kostner and Suzuki seem to have their own ideas and visions and are actually capable of materializing them on the ice. Answering to doris' question above, I believe Suzuki's "O" is truly unique because she used the music from Cirque du Soleil, but didn't try to recreate "O" on the ice. She created a totally different story on the ice instead, and how to interpret it was left to each person who watches.

    Takahashi is the best instrument to many choreographers, and he is so good at getting inside of their heads and materializing their visions. He often gives back more than what his choreographers asked for.

  10. #25
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    I also adore Dai's Swan! He is a real dancer! I would like to see him dance on floor.

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    Pushing artistic boundaries in figure skating means, for me, innovative choreography and an emotional commitment to that choreography.

    Jeremy Abbott's Exogenesis is incredible in this regard, mainly because it's a self-choreographed program. Daisuke Takahashi usually commits to his programs as well, though I felt his programs toward the end of the last skating season was him trying to act how his Russian coach wanted him to act. I would also add Akiko Suzuki

    For other skaters, the vast majority of programs are choreographed by another person, so it's difficult for the skater to inject themselves into the movements of the work. And I agree that the IJS has turned presentation into technical artistry with Skating Skills and Transitions.

    Another person I would say is Jeffrey Buttle, now as a choreography. He's done wonders for Patrick Chan's Elegy, and I would say that Chan's final minute in La Strada showed to me that he actually has an emotional range.

  12. #27
    Tripping on the Podium alfoalfo's Avatar
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    For me, pushing the artistic boundaries equates to creative revolution (I.T example would be VHS to DVD) and i dont think anyone has really done this post IJS from the looks of things. however i have defintely seen creative evolution (DVD to BluRay), so in this sense I think Yuna, Caro and Akiko have it down pat. Mainly because their program's always stand out from the rest. I only follow the ladies and am a casual men's fan, but for the men, from what I've seen thus far, Daisuke and Lambiel definitely lead the pack.

    This is very off topic, but here goes, Im a fan who unfortunately missed out on the 6.0 days and was introduced to the sport when it was strictly IJS (Yuna brought me here lol)... Apparently IJS limits the artistic and pushes the technical- so when someone in another thread (I think it was Mathman) mentioned that Yuna's Les Mis LP was a 6.0 program and many others agreed, I was pretty surprised- can someone please tell me why and how it's different?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfoalfo View Post
    This is very off topic, but here goes, Im a fan who unfortunately missed out on the 6.0 days and was introduced to the sport when it was strictly IJS (Yuna brought me here lol)... Apparently IJS limits the artistic and pushes the technical- so when someone in another thread (I think it was Mathman) mentioned that Yuna's Les Mis LP was a 6.0 program and many others agreed, I was pretty surprised- can someone please tell me why and how it's different?
    I think they were referring it to be a 6.0 worthy program, which it certainly would have been considering she was the last to skate and delivered a flawless program, including 3Z+3T. IJS seemingly has less emphasis on artistry because programs have more difficulty so it limits the time and energy a skater can take to be artistic (usually it's a choreographic limitation). But as many have shown Takahashi, Chan, Kostner, Kim, Asada, etc. it's certainly possible to incorporate difficulty while maintaining a significant level of artistry. Only the top echelon of skaters are capable of balancing both. In the past, a clean skate - as determined by clean jumps - and being the last to skate would often merit a 5.9/6.0, but now a "perfect" skate is determined by what goes on in between the elements as well as the elements themselves.

  14. #29
    Tripping on the Podium alfoalfo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I think they were referring it to be a 6.0 worthy program, which it certainly would have been considering she was the last to skate and delivered a flawless program, including 3Z+3T. IJS seemingly has less emphasis on artistry because programs have more difficulty so it limits the time and energy a skater can take to be artistic (usually it's a choreographic limitation). But as many have shown Takahashi, Chan, Kostner, Kim, Asada, etc. it's certainly possible to incorporate difficulty while maintaining a significant level of artistry. Only the top echelon of skaters are capable of balancing both. In the past, a clean skate - as determined by clean jumps - and being the last to skate would often merit a 5.9/6.0, but now a "perfect" skate is determined by what goes on in between the elements as well as the elements themselves.
    Thanks for the reply! Right, so Yunas LP (as well as the top 2~3) was just well balanced between art and tech ability.
    so the IJS now, it's all very mathematical and involves a lot of formulas etc, did 6.0 also incorporate reputation as well?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfoalfo View Post
    so the IJS now, it's all very mathematical and involves a lot of formulas etc, did 6.0 also incorporate reputation as well?
    Not officially. But in practice, undoubtedly it did, even more than IJS.

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