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Thread: Prosecutor throws out Plushenko slander complaint

  1. #16
    Custom Title LRK's Avatar
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    Also, a point... The statement was not made during Euros' or directly after - but at Four Continents. And I do think Plushy cared about why he had to withdraw - and people who care about Plushy do too - when he had a disc in his back replaced with an artificial one. Just because you don't care, CSG, doesn't mean that others are equally indifferent. But, of course, it's just a "story" for us "Plushy ubers" to cover up his bad performance - is not that what you've said? You continually belittle the severity of the injury. I'm sure, of course, that if you had had to go through such a procedure - or if you ever have to go through any major surgery - you will not care about that either - nor will your friends or well-wishers. And when you had to take time out from work to recover, you wouldn't mind at all, if it were spread all about your workplace that you were only malingering. Of course.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    But we're not journalists... Public perception is that what journalists say is always true.
    I suspect that was one of the reason why the prosecutor canceled the police's decision not to start the criminal procedure against Zhurankov. They made some examination on communicative linguistics within the police investiation, by "they" I mean the specialists of some Russian language university, where they stated that the way how Zhurankov presented the info was highly likely percepted by listeners as a fact and not just an opinion. They also said that Zhurnakov was doing that to "fill in" the air time with something. As well as PR-ing himself at Plu's expense. Not that they said something that people didn't say the moment Zhurankov opened his mouth. But you know, the procedure requires the written examination done by specialists.
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    This was an opinion that was verbalized, not written and disseminated as fact.
    So, you are saying that if somebody comes to your boss and says: "You know, in my opinion CSG faked his call-in-sick day in order not to attend the importatnt meeting and he spent his day watching online kids' porn, in my opinion," that's just fine. It's fine if that somebody goes around and keeps spreading this opinion about you among your co-workers. Well, maybe indeed in your workplace such "opinions" are not a big deal. Luckily for the world it's not the rules for the rest of us.

    The European Convention on Human Rights defines that "The exercise of the freedom of expression, since it carries with duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such ... restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, ..., for the protection of the reputation or the rights of others." The Constitution of RF states that "The exercise of the rights and freedoms of man and citizen shall not violate the rights and freedoms of other people." In short- the right of Zhurankov to hold an opinion shall not violate Plu's right on honor and good name. Especially if his opinion has no grounds, reasons and cannot be supported by any evidence or facts.

    If your parents, nuns or whoever brought you up told you that t's fine to lie about people and it's fine to defend liars with their right to lie, they obviously did their job very well.
    Plenty of journalists offer differing opinions and speculations
    That's a lie. Again. Zhurankov was the only journalist who said that Plu faked his injury. That's why he is the only one under the investigation now.
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    You are North American, you are Brian Joubert, you are a buffoon. You're at least one of those.
    So, you claim let`s talk is Brian Joubert who is a North American buffoon. You forgot to add "in my opinion". Without that it's "a false claim that is presented as a fact is privy to being treated as potentially slanderous/libellous."

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Is that what one of you meant by referring to "private prosecution"?
    Not exactly. Under the Criminal Code of RF the crime of slander commited by an individual against another individual is a crime of private prosecution. Private prosecution is a special procedure available ony for few minor cirmes. It is when any person can come to the crimnal court and file criminal charges against another person. If a slander took place in mass media (Plu case), then it's a subject of public prosecution, i.e. the charges must be done only by a public prosecutor.
    The civil law is when a person sues another person or/and media for defamation.

  4. #19
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    So, you are saying that if somebody comes to your boss and says: "You know, in my opinion CSG faked his call-in-sick day in order not to attend the importatnt meeting and he spent his day watching online kids' porn, in my opinion," that's just fine.
    I think that's kind of an exaggeration. (In that case the proper response would be to punch the guy out. )

    I think Plushenko's situation would be more like this. I say that I am taking a six weeks leave for major surgery. When I come back to work the class clown says, "I bet you didn't have surgery at all, you just wanted a longer vacation." Whatever you say, twerp-face.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think Plushenko's situation would be more like this. I say that I am taking a six weeks leave for major surgery. When I come back to work the class clown says, "I bet you didn't have surgery at all, you just wanted a longer vacation." Whatever you say, twerp-face.
    Yup. I would dismiss them and their accusation, especially if it were a coworker that I didn't really care much for. Retaliation isn't really worth my time, particularly because the coworker is likely trying to instigate me. Plushenko's reaction could have been "I don't concern myself with the opinion of this TV commentator... Especially when nothing could be further from the truth. Next question?"

  6. #21
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    So, you claim let`s talk is Brian Joubert who is a North American buffoon. You forgot to add "in my opinion". Without that it's "a false claim that is presented as a fact is privy to being treated as potentially slanderous/libellous."
    So, go ahead and sue me then. I have no problem defending myself since you've provided plenty of proof that you're either a North American, Brian Joubert, or a buffoon.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Not exactly. Under the Criminal Code of RF the crime of slander commited by an individual against another individual is a crime of private prosecution. Private prosecution is a special procedure available ony for few minor cirmes. It is when any person can come to the crimnal court and file criminal charges against another person. If a slander took place in mass media (Plu case), then it's a subject of public prosecution, i.e. the charges must be done only by a public prosecutor.
    The civil law is when a person sues another person or/and media for defamation.
    Thanks, Let's Talk. That's different enough from the American system that I wouldn't have been able to figure it out. I suppose in a sense, the equivalent here is that (God forbid) someone commits a crime against a person (but it has to be a crime, such as assault or burglary), the person can decide to press charges or not to press charges. (Alas, many spouses who have been assaulted by their spouses decide not to press charges.) But I believe that the case is brought into court as either "the people vs. John Doe" or "the state of Nevada (for instance) vs. John Doe." It's never as "Citizen Joe vs. John Doe." In other words, in criminal court, the case is always brought on behalf of the people, not a particular person. (If anyone has information that contradicts this, please feel free to correct me, but I'm fairly sure this is the procedure.) The only place a particular person can take someone else to court is in civil court, and then it's not for a crime.

    Off topic, I suppose, but it's fascinating to me how different countries set up their systems. There are certain things in common, of course, and maybe that's even more fascinating, because it shows that the urge to create a just society is universal. I don't know enough about international law to know whether every country has a civil court system as well as a criminal court system. Wouldn't that be an absorbing field of study?

    Anyway, thanks for satisfying my curiosity, Let's Talk.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    In that case the proper response would be to punch the guy out.
    What is it? I am sure you know very well that "punch" is not how the law works. Moreover, if hypothetically speaking Plu punched Zhurankov, the dude would get a good reason to sue Plu, would win and get handsomely compensated.
    Mathman, are you trolling too?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    So, go ahead and sue me then.
    Haha. One more lame trolling. For "sue" you must be somebody. Like a journalist talking for a multi-million audience of TV broadcast. But you are just one of the internet ranter who doesn't even have a name.
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I suppose in a sense, the equivalent here is that (God forbid) someone commits a crime against a person (but it has to be a crime, such as assault or burglary), the person can decide to press charges or not to press charges. (Alas, many spouses who have been assaulted by their spouses decide not to press charges.) But I believe that the case is brought into court as either "the people vs. John Doe" or "the state of Nevada (for instance) vs. John Doe." It's never as "Citizen Joe vs. John Doe."
    I probably didn't word myself clearly enough. First, the prosecutor is aways in the courtroom of any criminal case, either it's a private prosecution or public one. His opnion is always stated in the protocol, in the judge's ruling, as well as in the sentence. There is no criminal trial without the prosecutor's presence. The nature of private prosecution is that the criminal proceeding can be initiated only by the victim's decision to file charges, it can be stopped in case the "peace" between the victim and the bad guy takes place and it cannot be initiated in the first place if the victim doesn't file any charges at all. According to your part in italics in the US all crimes are 'private prosecution' which I am sure is not a correct statement.

    The institute of private prosecution was introduced in Russia by the tsar Alexander II in 1864 year. So, it's not the "Soviets" thing. The Bolsheviks established it by the relevant law in 1923 and since then there basically hasn't been any major changes. Private prosecution is not 'Russian' thing either. It exists in Australia, Canada, France, UK and at least in one state of the US (Virginia).

  9. #24
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    Thanks, Let's Talk.

    (I wasn't clear either, though. I apologize. If a person presses charges, the case is brought by the prosecutor just as in any criminal case.)

  10. #25
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    ^ About "pressing charges," I think this idea comes into play when the prosecution does not have a case without the testimony of the injured party. If, for instance, a policemen witnesses the crime, then the prosecution can proceed whether the victim presses charges or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Let's Talk
    What is it? I am sure you know very well that "punch" is not how the law works. Moreover, if hypothetically speaking Plu punched Zhurankov, the dude would get a good reason to sue Plu, would win and get handsomely compensated.
    Well, at least I didn't say Plushenko should shoot the guy.

  11. #26
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Hey, if he lived in Florida, Plu could shoot Zhurankov & get away with it; all he needed to do is say he feared for his life

    In the US, a private citizen can go after someone for theft by themselves in small claims court. I've seen small business owners handle it that way.

  12. #27
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    Even though Plushenko has lost this case, I hope this journalist has at least apologized or made some retraction. Although, it appears he hasn't even had to do that. Oh well... sticks and stones. Nobody will remember those commentator's words after the summer anyways, nor should Plushenko and his camp continue to care so much about this one guy's opinion.

  13. #28
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    He has to care; if he doesn't make a stink, people would assume it was at least partly true, and say, "No smoke without fire." So even losing his case, based on the weasel word way that Zhurankov made his claims (stuff like "they say," "some one might think,", etc and more weaselling), Plu has still made his case to the fans, I think.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    He has to care; if he doesn't make a stink, people would assume it was at least partly true, and say, "No smoke without fire." So even losing his case, based on the weasel word way that Zhurankov made his claims (stuff like "they say," "some one might think,", etc and more weaselling), Plu has still made his case to the fans, I think.
    You're right about him defending himself, but if Zhurankov made a defamatory statement, all Plu had to do was say "No, you're wrong. Here's the proof" and Zhurankov looks like a fool. However, in choosing to go after him by suing him, and losing, Plushenko only hurt himself. When it comes to slander/libel cases, several people are of the opinion that if the defendant (Zhurankov) loses they must have been lying/guilty of slander, but if the defendant wins they must have been telling the truth. Since Zhurankov got off scott-free I'm sure to some people that actually substantiates his statements (which, ironically, was what Plushenko was trying to avoid in the first place by suing him).

  15. #30
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    Wait, what?! Plushenko did not lose the case. According to the article in the OP:

    “The prosecutor’s office again quashed the decision not to institute criminal proceedings,” the source said. The prosecutor’s office declined to comment on the matter Tuesday, according to the RAPSI.
    In other words, for the second time the prosecutor's office has instructed the police to proceed with the criminal case against the journalist.

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