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Thread: Prosecutor throws out Plushenko slander complaint

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Wait, what?! Plushenko did not lose the case. According to the article in the OP:

    In other words, for the second time the prosecutor's office has instructed the police to proceed with the criminal case against the journalist.
    I re-read and yeah, he intends to sue for defamation (instead of slander), but the title of this thread and the title of the article make it seem like the whole case was thrown out. The criminal case seems to be thrown out but the charges of defamation seem to be pursued. It's a bit silly to label a journalist as a criminal for an opinionated comment based on incorrect data he was going off of, and it was hardly repeated and it's not like he was making some lengthy campaign against him. Also, it's Plushenko and not some major political figure. When defamation law in Russia was reinstated in 2012 by Putin it was heavily criticized as a ploy to curb freedom of speech by those opposing his government anyways (and protect prominent political figures). I can't imagine it was meant to protect figure skaters (even Plushenko) from inaccurate statements by TV commentators.

    In the States you get radio casters and TV casters saying grossly false things about Obama all the time, and they project this to millions of listeners (Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, etc.). But the government dismisses them as fallacies spewed by asinine opposers and everyone moves on. Nobody gets sued, and heck, nobody even entertains the crap these people say or cares what their listeners will think of it. Obama never sued Trump for saying he wasn't born in the US -- Obama produced his long form birth certificate and Trump was made to be a fool, and Obama left it at that.

  2. #32
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I re-read and yeah, he intends to sue for defamation (instead of slander), but the title of this thread and the title of the article make it seem like the whole case was thrown out.
    I think the headline, and consequently the thread title, are quite at fault in confusing the issue. It is not at all clear where the matter lies.

    The criminal case seems to be thrown out but the charges of defamation seem to be pursued.
    I don't think the criminal case was thrown out. What I think happened is that the Moscow Prosecutor's Office threw the case back to the police, ruling that the police erred in not proceeding with it. (?) I think the the defamation proceedings are a separate action. (?)

    It's a bit silly to label a journalist as a criminal for an opinionated comment based on incorrect data he was going off of
    "Following unsourced reports in Israeli media that Plushenko lied about having surgery, Zhurankov said on the Russian television the figure skater’s alleged fakery was for public relations purposes."

    At the risk of getting sued by Mr.Zhurankov, I bet no such "unsourced Israeli media reports" existed anywhere except in the Mr. Z's imagination. Now I hope the case does go though, just so Zhurankov will be forced to reveal his so-called sources in court.

    Of course he could stand on the Russian equivalent of the U.S. First Amendment (freedom of the press) and say, "No, no, a thousand times no. I would rather go to jail than reveal my sources!"

    Obama never sued Trump for saying he wasn't born in the US.
    No, but Donald Trump sued satirist Bill Maher for $US 5,000,000 for challenging Trump to prove that Trump was not the offspring of an orangutan.

    http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowld...TrumpHairs.jpg
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-27-2013 at 05:04 PM.

  3. #33
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    By the way, RAPSI (the Russian Legal Information Agency) is on Twitter. You can follow them and read all about the progress of this case, 140 characters at a time.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    No, but Donald Trump sued satirist Bill Maher for $US 5,000,000 for challenging Trump to prove that Trump was not the offspring of an orangutan.

    http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowld...TrumpHairs.jpg


    Maher:“Suppose that perhaps Donald Trump had been the spawn of his mother having sex with an orangutan, because, well, I didn’t just make this up. The color of his hair and the color of an orange orangutan is the only two things in nature of the same color. . . . I’m not saying it’s true, I hope it’s not true, but unless he comes up with proof, I’m willing to, I’m willing to offer five million dollars to Donald Trump that he can donate to a charity of his choice, Hair Club for Men, the Insitute for Incorrigible Douchebaggery, whatever charity . . .”

    Within two days, he had a birth certificate in Maher’s hands to prove that his father was really the human Fred C. Trump. And then Trump actually tried to hold him to his word by suing him! Although, I'd have to say, Stephen Colbert's $1,000,000 offer was much more epic. (NSFW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtlAdDFVeUM)

    To sue somebody for an accusation means they must have really gotten under your skin. In which case, you should probably take the higher road unless that person has legitimately damaged your reputation with their comments. Suing or taking legal action is an aggressive approach that is essentially using grease to put out a fire that can be easily stamped out.

  5. #35
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    I have seen all sorts of folks, particularly politicians, try to take the high road, but unfortunately the high road has lots of mud puddles in it, and it does not end well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I re-read and yeah, he intends to sue for defamation (instead of slander), but the title of this thread and the title of the article make it seem like the whole case was thrown out. The criminal case seems to be thrown out but the charges of defamation seem to be pursued. It's a bit silly to label a journalist as a criminal for an opinionated comment based on incorrect data he was going off of, and it was hardly repeated and it's not like he was making some lengthy campaign against him. Also, it's Plushenko and not some major political figure. When defamation law in Russia was reinstated in 2012 by Putin it was heavily criticized as a ploy to curb freedom of speech by those opposing his government anyways (and protect prominent political figures). I can't imagine it was meant to protect figure skaters (even Plushenko) from inaccurate statements by TV commentators.

    In the States you get radio casters and TV casters saying grossly false things about Obama all the time, and they project this to millions of listeners (Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, etc.). But the government dismisses them as fallacies spewed by asinine opposers and everyone moves on. Nobody gets sued, and heck, nobody even entertains the crap these people say or cares what their listeners will think of it. Obama never sued Trump for saying he wasn't born in the US -- Obama produced his long form birth certificate and Trump was made to be a fool, and Obama left it at that.
    Trash talking in a gossip show is expected so nobody will be very serious about it. Same as political debate, people are expecting controversial talks from such programs. So by saying such practice happens everyday does not make them right and does not fit the case for Plushenko.

    What Zharankov did is extremely unprofessional because he gossiped a lie framed with "in my opinion" despite the fact that the operation and doctor's interviews were broadcast on Channel 1 in Russia days before he made his comment. He deliberately used un-sourced gossip to support his opinion while the facts have been shown on TV already. You expressed the same doubt in the other post, but in your case, since your audience is just posters from this forum, there is no harm done to Plushenko directly, only annoyed his fans. Zhurankov's case is different that is why Plushenko wanted to sue him.

    And Plushenko is not the first athlete to sue TV commentator in Russia. Another footballer sued one of the commentator and won. And actually in that case, the commentator made mistake by forgetting to switch off the mic while trash talking that athlete. That commentator did not mean to say bad comments about that athlete when he is on air. But he got sued and lost.

    It is the nature of Russian law to sue Zhurankov with criminal charge, judging from what I read.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    He has to care; if he doesn't make a stink, people would assume it was at least partly true, and say, "No smoke without fire."
    Yes, that is a good saying, but we have in Finnish also something else: "It is the dog which is hit by the tossed stick, which yelps."

  8. #38
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    The whole story:

    -Operation:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5hQlrbKNdU

    -In media(foreign):
    http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/201...rgery/related/
    http://espn.go.com/olympics/figuresk...ry-miss-worlds
    http://fr.news.yahoo.com/patinage-pl...8019--spt.html
    http://www.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...ce-spinal-disc
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mor...#ixzz2Jao1Q0A1
    http://www.ess.fi/?article=401891 -finnish
    http://durushaber.com/haber-14408-Pl...medium=twitter -turkish
    http://rt.com/sport/pluschenko-spine...e-skating-194/
    http://www.handelsblatt.com/eiskunst...t/7718572.html -german
    http://www.worldtimes.co.jp/news/spo...O-SURGERY.html - japanese

    and so on.....

    aaand this article on 31.01.2013.
    http://cursorinfo.co.il/news/sport/2...tsya-vimislom/ - Report in the Israeli media claimed Plushenko was not being operated on and insisted Mishin was lying to cover up failure in Zagreb....

    -At least, the journalist of "sovpsport" noted 2 factual errors in the article and contacted Mishin - who confirmed that Yana goes in Israel with TV crew http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/585263

    -Yana showed some photos on Twitter from hospital

    -and one Tv chanel aired this video on TV

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jljRVEXpsiE

    and the clinic: http://www.mcra.co.il/?CategoryID=461

    -russian article: http://www.kp.ru/daily/26024/2944513/
    translation..
    "- Zhenya, how are you feeling? How went the surgery?
    - Thank you. Surgery went well. I can already move quietly. They put the new disc into my the back hitched with the four screws, removed the hernia. Surgery was serious, so now I need to be in peace, and then I'll recovering. All quietly passes, everything is normally.

    - How long are you going to be in Israel?
    - Two weeks. Then I will go back to Russia, stay with my ​​son, family. And then after four weeks I will back to Israel to a examination, because it is very important that the new disk stuck. So now I must to avoid sudden movements: I can not twist, squat."

    Let's talk's translating:
    There were too many med vocabs talks that flew out of my head the moment I heard them. The Israeli doctor spoke native Russian . He said Plu disk was in awful condition, not the disk only but also vertebraes and smth else. I am weak with med talks. The doc commented not without Jewish jokes, smth like "It's dangerous to live with such spine, not just to compete." Zhenya said he feels "like after operation" but feels good.


    After this ,Eurosport commentator Andrei Zhurankov said Plushenko had faked the surgery for public relations purposes.

    “In my opinion, there was no such operation, and all this story, considering how it was presented in the mass media – it was an exclusive story by Channel One, only certain media sources got the tip-off to write about it – all this looks like a strategy that is used for various PR actions in showbiz," he said on-air.

    Also and this:

    "I especially have a suspicion, because next information appeared in the Israeli medias, 2 days ago, that they can not find a hospital where was Evgeni operated, and can not find him in any hospital right now.... Also, I do not believe that a man who had operation on the spine, can walk one day later.... Why do I think that's Plushenko's "PR"? In general, in recent years, much more stories about Evgeni is from show business, than from the sport."


    You forgot something, this case is not just about Plushenko.

    This was Plus's first reaction on Twitter, he was in Tel Aviv Hospital:

    RT @EvgeniPlushenko:
    "Here's a video which sent to me: http://youtube.com/watch?v=sapPTvStTeU
    Well, what can I say about it... I'm especially bitter, aware of the fact that Andrey Zhurankov @AZhurankov, pretending to the title of a sports journalist, which in itself should mean a certain level of professionalism, could understand all the mendacity which he told on Russian channel EUROSPORT 2 about me as a athlete and person, that is, he deliberately insulted my honor, dignity and reputation.
    Sport - it's my life. Sporting achievements in the name of the glory of Russia - this is my religion. For me, it's not just words, it is the essence of all that I did and do in the sport. Violating the code of ethics of the journalist, Zhurankov slandered and insulted not only me, than also my entire team, including a genius coach Alexei Mishin, wonderful assistants, my fans in Russia and around the world.
    Fact is so disgusting and transcends, that I'm not going to leave it just like that. In the end, there is a law, there is a court, in which I will defend my dignity of athlete and person."

    What had Plushy to do? He just had to laugh Zhurankov's stupidity? And Zhurankov refused to apologize.... Luckily the major news-agency was not immediately sent this news, like they did about his surgery.

    Plushy in another interview: "Well, I think if you are a sport journalist, you should comment sport precisely and nothing else. No need to comment my personal life, my wife, my kids, my so-called "show business" or whatever. I am not doing any show business. Yes, I have a lot of friends in that field. Probably some people are too concerned about the fact that I have so many friends in show business, in politics, in the theatre and movie worlds. I think journalists should have a more professional approach to their work. If they comment figure skating, so please study this sport, like the difference between lutz and flip jumps. That is what they should talk about: technical skills, programs of skaters, their costumes, choreography, so on. Journalists have to study figure skating before being assigned to comment this sport."

    -Plushenko Denies Reports Sponsors Have Left Amid Scandal http://en.rsport.ru/other_sports/201...653749430.html
    ---------------------------------


    absolute fresh news: 11 June Plushenko goes in Israel to the medical examination, after which doctors will tell him, can he jump and participate in competitions....

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Yes, that is a good saying, but we have in Finnish also something else: "It is the dog which is hit by the tossed stick, which yelps."
    Sorry, I'm afraid I don't quite get what this saying means. Is it saying that those who are attacked should not speak up or try to defend themselves? That would seem awfully convenient for those who like to "toss sticks", wouldn't it?

    Some people say they would have "laughed it off" themselves. However, it frankly comes across as a bit strange to translate this to a notion that others (or namely in this case, Plushenko) "should" react the same way. As we've seen, in Russia (as in most countries), the need for legal recourse against defamation is recognized. To "laugh it off" is one way of dealing with it, to seek such a legal recourse is another way: I don't see how the former is more of a "high road" than the latter in any morally meaningful way.

    Specific to this particular situation, one thing to mention is that over the years, the Russian tabloids have invented many false rumors about Plushenko, and he has for the most part (with exceptions) forborne from reacting openly. But this time, Zhurankov is not some tabloid reporter. He was on Eurosport, a serious television sports channel, commentating on the 4CC, a major international competition. He was speaking from a position that would generally be considered a position of authority on figure skating. And he was not merely making a factual mistake in the course of commentating: he deliberately brought up Plushenko's name in a situation where one would not expect it to naturally arise (given that there were no Russian skaters in the competition). He was not merely speculating based on a lack of knowledge: he specifically mentioned the Channel 1 video news report of Plushenko in the Israeli hospital, which shows that he was fully aware of the facts of the situation. Later, he admitted directly that he was trying deliberately to "bait" Plushenko.

    To say that Plushenko's injury and/or operation were not legitimate is to impugn his honesty (as well as the honesty of his team, his doctors, and Channel 1). As Plushenko himself has said more than once, to be called a "liar" is what offends him deeply. Perhaps to some posters here, such matters of personal integrity would only elicit a reaction of "who cares?", but by all indications, it is in fact something that is important to Plushenko. Given this, it seems to me to be a quite natural and honorable (yes, Plushenko is one of those people who still use the word "honor" in this day and age, so I will use it here as well) reaction to try to seek redress, whatever the outcome.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Even though Plushenko has lost this case, I hope this journalist has at least apologized or made some retraction. Although, it appears he hasn't even had to do that. Oh well... sticks and stones. Nobody will remember those commentator's words after the summer anyways, nor should Plushenko and his camp continue to care so much about this one guy's opinion.
    As was pointed out by others, Plushenko did not "lose the case". But I'm curious as to your statement here that you hope Zhurankov "apologized or made some retraction". I believe that according to most commonly accepted ways of thinking, this would imply that you think Zhurakov's statements regarding Plushenko's injury and operation were false. However, two days ago, you also expressed an opinion similar to Zhurankov's in another thread about Plushenko here:

    ....
    I wouldn't have been shocked if we later found out that he wasn't injured at the time and his camp had cited an injury as an excuse.
    .....
    Ignoring the self-contradictions within that particular post for the moment, do you think Plushenko's injury at this year's European Championships was legitimate or not? Or does it switch back and forth unhindered?

  11. #41
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitebamboo View Post
    Sorry, I'm afraid I don't quite get what this saying means. Is it saying that those who are attacked should not speak up or try to defend themselves? That would seem awfully convenient for those who like to "toss sticks", wouldn't it?
    "Se koira älähtää, johon kalikka kalahtaa." I think it means something like, if someone throws a stick and it doesn't hit anything, so what? But if the dog yelps, that means that there must be some substance to the allegation, or the dog wouldn't react.

    This page suggests "The Lady doth protest too much" as the English equivalent.

    http://www.fact-archive.com/quotes/Finnish_proverbs

    Here's my favorite:"Always exist branch grabbers, when exist fir-tree haulers." (Whenever someone accomplishes something, there will always other people trying to claim the credit.

  12. #42
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    LOL! The show must go on! Now he moved into another thread with "Plushenko" in the title. And I am sure it will get trolled the same way as two previous ones, one of which got closed, another one was "asked" to stop by mods. It seems like it's gonna be the fate of all Plu threads till Sochi. Way to go, PR-guy of Skate Canada!

    Could they at least employ someone with experitse and knowledge on the subject? They must be in some kind of financial crisis if they have to stick with an underqualified staffer.

    Here we go.
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Since Zhurankov got off scott-free I'm sure to some people that actually substantiates his statements
    What's the point of ranting about the subject that you have no knowledge and possess no correct facts, unless you want to be Zhurankov, i.e. present lies and incorrect information? Plu didn't lose anything yet and Zhurnakov didn't get "scott-free". That's first. Second, who are those "some people"? Those who are liars and who defend their right to lie like you do? I am sure no one cares of them. If that is how you do things in Canada: go lying, slandering, libeling, gossiping, bitching about each other, then go ahead and enjoy that life. Societies are different. The concept of the European Convention on Human Rights (which is a top legal document in all countries that signed it, including Russia, higher than the Constitution) is to grant the freedom of opinion on the condition that the exercise of the said right doesn't violate the reputaton and rights of others. The same demand is established in the Constituation of RF. But in Russia they say: "For fools laws do not exist." So why should Zhurankov or you care what some conventions declare.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    he intends to sue for defamation (instead of slander)
    Incorrect again. You can't sue for slander. Slander is a crime, so there was no "sue" in the first place.
    The criminal case seems to be thrown out but the charges of defamation seem to be pursued.
    Then you probably should read others' posts too, not only yours if you want to look "knowledgable." It has been explained already that criminal saga is going on. The prosecutor keeps insisting that Zhurankov shall be liable for what he did under the criminal law.
    Also, it's Plushenko and not some major political figure.
    He is also not Patrick Chan. Maybe PChan is a nobody in Canada for the general public. Plushenko is a celebrity in Russia. Didn't you guy call him "treated like royalty"?
    When defamation law in Russia was reinstated in 2012 by Putin
    Again wrong info. The defamation law wasn't reinstated in Russian in 2012 because it was never canceled in the first place. It was introduced by the Civil Code in 1995 and since then has been existing there without any changes. The slander law historically has been in practice way longer than the defamation law. It was briefly canceled for 7 months and then reinstated. But it wasn't "by Putin". He has no power to reinstate laws. It was done by the parliament "Duma", as they always do. It's pretty obvious that you clearly have no idea how legislation works. You have even lesser idea of how it works in Russia. What's the point of your rants unless you want to make a fool of yourself or simply trolling for the sake of it, I wonder.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitebamboo View Post
    "I wouldn't have been shocked if we later found out that he wasn't injured at the time and his camp had cited an injury as an excuse."

    Ignoring the self-contradictions within that particular post for the moment, do you think Plushenko's injury at this year's European Championships was legitimate or not? Or does it switch back and forth unhindered?
    I accept that his injury was legitimate and I've stated that many times. But as per what I said, in the event that it wasn't legitimate (it's not like skaters ever have an image to maintain and tell the media one thing while the actual situation is different...), it seems plausible that he would pull out, given the situation he was in -- he was in a position with almost no chance of winning (and ultimately, no chance, given Fernandez's skate), he would have to fight for bronze and risk being off the podium for the first time in a long while, and would have risked losing to inferior skaters including his own countrymen (I don't think losing to Voronov/Kovtun would have helped his Sochi bid), and being already plagued by injuries there was no point risking his health just to make the podium.

    If a guy who is so accustomed to winning all of a sudden bombs his SP (it's been ages since he was 6th after an SP), while several guys actually have a good SP (unlike Euros 2012) putting him 15 points behind the leader, and then he pulls out of the competition... don't you think the thought might cross one's mind that he backed out because he was too far behind (and likely didn't want to be perceived as vulnerable/beatable)?

    We'll never know, but I wonder if he had skated clean and was leading after the SP, or if the other guys all bombed and he was at least still in contention, if he would have done the FS or still pulled out? I would imagine he would have done the FS because he wouldn't have competed in the first place if he hadn't felt that he could skate both an SP and FS, and with a competitive level of performance. And the other question is, if he was healthy enough, would he have still competed in the FS from 6th position knowing he would likely be beaten by Fernandez and/or Amodio and possibly even pushed off the podium for the first time in years? As Mathman said, he likely gave it an old college try... it didn't work out, and rather than risking his health to fight for bronze, he pulled out.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitebamboo View Post
    Sorry, I'm afraid I don't quite get what this saying means. Is it saying that those who are attacked should not speak up or try to defend themselves? That would seem awfully convenient for those who like to "toss sticks", wouldn't it?

    Some people say they would have "laughed it off" themselves. However, it frankly comes across as a bit strange to translate this to a notion that others (or namely in this case, Plushenko) "should" react the same way. As we've seen, in Russia (as in most countries), the need for legal recourse against defamation is recognized. To "laugh it off" is one way of dealing with it, to seek such a legal recourse is another way: I don't see how the former is more of a "high road" than the latter in any morally meaningful way.

    Specific to this particular situation, one thing to mention is that over the years, the Russian tabloids have invented many false rumors about Plushenko, and he has for the most part (with exceptions) forborne from reacting openly. But this time, Zhurankov is not some tabloid reporter. He was on Eurosport, a serious television sports channel, commentating on the 4CC, a major international competition. He was speaking from a position that would generally be considered a position of authority on figure skating. And he was not merely making a factual mistake in the course of commentating: he deliberately brought up Plushenko's name in a situation where one would not expect it to naturally arise (given that there were no Russian skaters in the competition). He was not merely speculating based on a lack of knowledge: he specifically mentioned the Channel 1 video news report of Plushenko in the Israeli hospital, which shows that he was fully aware of the facts of the situation. Later, he admitted directly that he was trying deliberately to "bait" Plushenko.

    To say that Plushenko's injury and/or operation were not legitimate is to impugn his honesty (as well as the honesty of his team, his doctors, and Channel 1). As Plushenko himself has said more than once, to be called a "liar" is what offends him deeply. Perhaps to some posters here, such matters of personal integrity would only elicit a reaction of "who cares?", but by all indications, it is in fact something that is important to Plushenko. Given this, it seems to me to be a quite natural and honorable (yes, Plushenko is one of those people who still use the word "honor" in this day and age, so I will use it here as well) reaction to try to seek redress, whatever the outcome.


    Russian Federation is to blame for such strangers on TV is commentating their sport. There are plenty of Russian skaters who retired and could do the job on TV.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Again wrong info. The defamation law wasn't reinstated in Russian in 2012 because it was never canceled in the first place. It was introduced by the Civil Code in 1995 and since then has been existing there without any changes. The slander law historically has been in practice way longer than the defamation law. It was briefly canceled for 7 months and then reinstated. But it wasn't "by Putin". He has no power to reinstate laws. It was done by the parliament "Duma", as they always do. It's pretty obvious that you clearly have no idea how legislation works. You have even lesser idea of how it works in Russia.
    Duma establishes and approves the bill. And Putin is the one who signs the bill into law (it's a grossly incorrect statement to say he has "no power to reinstate laws" when it is by HIS power/authority/signature that such laws are enacted or re-instated).

    Moscow Times, July 31, 2012 (Iss.4938) http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...aw/462888.html
    http://rapsinews.com/legislation_new...263996789.html
    http://uncut.indexoncensorship.org/2...amation-crime/
    http://jurist.org/paperchase/2012/07...nd-slander.php

    And attributing to Duma is ridiculous in the first place because they're notoriously pro-Putin anyways. It's not like they would ever push his agenda or anything.

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