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Thread: Skaters who can dominate both in IJS and 6.0.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by emdee View Post
    Patrick chan.
    He has shown his mettle on IJS.

    With his beautiful skating skills he could easily dominate 6.0
    He would have to not fall. Clean programs trumped good skating under 6.0.

  2. #32
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    Patrick Chan and Carolina Kostner should not be even considered.
    They are typical IJS skaters.

  3. #33
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    The question is
    Who CAN dominate.....

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The reason that I list Yuna Kim alone as a two-fer among active skaters is this. Her CoP programs are 6.0 programs. IMHO her performance of Les Miz at 2013 worlds, just as it was, would have beat any ladies’ LP ever, CoP or 6.0, including herself at 2010 Olympics.
    No!
    Her Les Miz would not beat any of Midori's LPs in 1988, 1989, 1990. Not to mention a bunch of GP events.
    I don't think she can beat Shiz in 2004 either.
    A few of Michelle's 7 triples LPs would beat her in both tech and artistic.

    Best ever? Hardly. Best this year, of course.

  5. #35
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    yes kim is really nothing, she dont even do 7 triples, also she have wrong edge 3F, dont do 3R etc. Of course, her artistry is nowhere near to Ito midori or Michelle. her all programs were weaker than Michelle's or Midori's all programs, in artistry and technically. how bad...
    I think many people were refuted Mathman's post enough. now I want to talk about other skaters

  6. #36
    Custom Title Cherryy's Avatar
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    I don't know about Kim beating Kwan, but Midori Ito would surely do extremely well under IJS. She would be getting the biggest GOE's on her jumps out of all ladies, she wouldn't be penalized for figures. Btw, she actually does, she won Masters Elite this year in Oberstdorf .
    I also think Mao would somehow benefit from 6.0, because she wouldn't be penalized for URs and wrong edges but on the other hand I don't know if the lack of consistency woudn't hurt her.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by emdee View Post
    The question is
    Who CAN dominate.....
    Well, he could never dominate under 6.0 because he falls too much. He would not win any major titles with multiple falls in the LP. I suppose a hypothetical skater who skates like Chan but doesn't fall could do well, but that isn't Patrick.

    It's like saying Ekaterina Goordeeva could dominate Women's Singles because she skates well, ignoring the fact she doesn't do all the triple jumps.

  8. #38
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    My contention is that Chan would fall less without the strictures of COP.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by emdee View Post
    My contention is that Chan would fall less without the strictures of COP.
    But that theory is apply to almost all skaters in COP.
    almost all skaters in COP might be more comfortable/consistent with less difficult contents under 6.0.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by emdee View Post
    My contention is that Chan would fall less without the strictures of COP.
    To me, the difficulty in guessing what kind of a 6.0 skater Patrick might have been is this: The things that Patrick is most amazing at, those are exactly the things that the CoP brings to the fore and were not greatly valued under 6.0 (transitions, blade work).

    Under 6.0 he might have fallen less, but by the same token he might not have worked to develop his eye-popping edge skills.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    To me, the difficulty in guessing what kind of a 6.0 skater Patrick might have been is this: The things that Patrick is most amazing at, those are exactly the things that the CoP brings to the fore and were not greatly valued under 6.0 (transitions, blade work).

    Under 6.0 he might have fallen less, but by the same token he might not have worked to develop his eye-popping edge skills.
    True... although his entries leading into jumps would be less complicated (since they wouldn't be particularly rewarded) and you'd see less errors, theoretically. His only real weakness is his axel (and maybe his lutz as of late, which one could partially attribute to the transitions preceding it). I think with less content to worry about he'd focus more going into his easier elements. It's apparent that going into his quads, the transitions aren't nearly as complicated to maintain the speed, and the focus is there. But it seems after he's got them "out of the way" he loses attack and focus, possibly due to complex choreography.

  12. #42
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    I don't know if you can say for sure that Chan would be more consistent if his programs were less busy and we'll probably never know for sure.

    Midori Ito would be successful whenever she skated except when figures were worth more than 30%. I will never forget the look on her face in 1990 after she skated the second figure and realized the glaring error she had skated and then traced. :(

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    I don't know if you can say for sure that Chan would be more consistent if his programs were less busy and we'll probably never know for sure.
    Yep, there's no way of telling for sure. But logic dictates that if you expend more energy into the content of a program and have to think about linking movements with difficult turns and footwork, then your focus into each jump will be diminished. Chan could power through his first 3 jumping passes with high difficult and once executed he can turn his attention to artistry/choreography, but that's not exactly his style.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Under 6.0 he might have fallen less, but by the same token he might not have worked to develop his eye-popping edge skills.
    I don't know that he would have fallen less. Chan does not fall more often than an average world-level athlete. He just falls a lot more than those who actually won under 6.0. Skating and jumping are different skills, and training one of those things less might not necessarily make the other much better. Kurt was as far ahead of the field in skating skills as Chan is now, but he was only able to dominate when he skated well and made the fewest errors of the other top competitors.

  15. #45
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    Skaters who could IMO:

    Gordeeva & Grinkov
    Totmianina & Marinin
    Shen & Zhao
    Plushenko
    Yagudin
    Eldredge (would have been even better under COP)
    Virtue & Moir
    Torvill & Dean
    Klimova & Ponomarenko
    Slutskaya (even better under COP)
    Yu Na Kim
    Mao Asada


    Skaters who definitely could not:

    Sarah Hughes (would have been nothing under COP)
    Kwan (would have done well under COP in her prime but nowhere near as well as 6.0)
    Chan (would barely get on any podiums under 6.0, his LP from Worlds this year would have placed about 9th under 6.0)
    Sale & Pelletier (would not have done well under COP, especialy with her weak jumping and their quite simple programs in general)
    Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze (would have struggled under COP to get the needed TES too)
    Anissina & Peizerat (love them but think they would have struggled under COP to do as well, although perhaps not in the era they were in with weak and overrated teams who would have been nothing under COP like Lobacheva and Fusar Poli)

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