From a layman's perspective (mine), Yuna's lutz entrance just looks like many flip setups I've seen, until she slides over onto the outside edge before picking in. I guess that's what I meant, and I articulated it incorrectly. It's something I hadn't seen before (IIRC), and it looks like it works for her. However, the old-time lutzes were, as I was told (and have seen), long BO edges all the way into the jump.
The aliens from outer space criterion is the only rational and objective way to settle the matter. This seems clear to me....go ahead and imagine a creative scenario where a time capsule or a message to aliens in outer space asks us to pick 10 programs by one skater only...
The funny thing, though, is that both of these skaters would feel honored to be compared to the other.
I know, right?Originally Posted by jaylee
Especially when Dick Button praised the very edge that the Eurosport guys found wanting.
As a fellow layman, here is something I never noticed until it was pointed out to me in one of these discussion on Golden Skate. Michelle changed her Lutz entry in the latter part of her career from the long gliding outside edge (which she often rolled toward the inside at the last moment) to an entrance on the other foot, putting her weight on the take-off foot only just before the jump. You can see the difference here.Originally Posted by zschulktz1986
Young filly, long edge:
Old grey mare, short edge
The reason this point struck such a nerve is that this Lutz combination caused Alois Lutz to rise from the grave, rejoicing and weeping in ecstasy:
Yu-Na is not doing either a three-turn or a mohawk before her lutz. (She does do a three-turn before her triple flip.) She basically glides backwards and changes edges a few times prior to her lutz, which is not like a flip entrance at all. She does that in order to accelerate prior to take-off.
Yu-Na is not the only skater who is not doing a long backwards glide into a lutz. Patrick Chan does a solo lutz in the SP and he does it after an intricate step sequence, then he puts his left skate down and takes off the outside edge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...7GCF4Kk#t=154s
Btw, Yu-Na can certainly do a long backwards glide into her lutz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...-S5cFK-Y#t=52s
Sorry that I offended zschultz.
zschultz, just to clarify as well -- I wasn't calling you or anyone specific to this thread a "sheep"...it was a comment made about some hypocritical fans that I have encountered.
Here are two of my favourite classically long-edge set-up 3 Lutzes (done from the outside edge):
So the next question is.... who changed Kim's (and Kwan's) lutz setups and why? I'm assuming Yuna's was Brian and Michelle's was Artunian? Is it easier to carry more speed into the jump with the "flatter" setup? Or easier to make sure the lutz edge is truly an outside one?
^ That's a great question, and I hope some knowledgable person will contribute an answer.
One difference is that the standard long BOE approach puts the actual jump way off in the "Lutz corner" -- the hardest place in the rink for the judges to see a flutz. The short approach usually goes straight down the center.
Alissa Czisny, for all her jump difficulties, actually has a pretty good Lutz. She said that in training the Lutz take-off her coach made her practice gliding all the way around the rink on a back outside edge.
However, she still did the long backwards glide before the lutz in her FS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...hywydxrY#t=57s
Kostner does the long backwards glide into her lutz, but she takes so long that two judges deducted her at 2007 Worlds since that was her jump out of footwork in the SP, and there was too much of a break between the steps and the take-off for the lutz. (So at 2007 Worlds, Yu-Na got 1.71 +GOE for her lutz out of footwork; Carolina averaged +0.71.) Kostner mostly avoids the lutz in the SP.
Yuna Kim will be considered as the best ladies skater even after a deacde
To be fair to Peggy Fleming, though, she made her prediction about Michelle Kwan before Yuna Kim appeared on the scene.
I would, however, like to point out that there are aspects of skating that cannot be measured, and in those aspects, other skaters, not just YuNa, excel. This is a matter of the heart—the skaters' hearts and those of us fans—and cannot be quantified quite so easily.