GP assigments 2013/2014

This was discussed somewhere or other on GS -- I don't remember where, now. Someone posted that Midori deliberately held back on the tech to make it more fair. Evidently the rules allow as many jumps as you want, and Ito can do at least doubles all day long, putting her program out of reach of the rest of the ladies.

In fact, if I remember correctly, she held back so much in this competition last year that she finished second.

But I know what you mean. As far as I know the rules do not prevent retired Olympians from competing. Like you could look up and you would be going against Sasha Cohen or somebody.

Mathman said:

This was discussed somewhere or other on GS -- I don't remember where, now. Someone posted that Midori deliberately held back on the tech to make it more fair. Evidently the rules allow as many jumps as you want, and Ito can do at least doubles all day long, putting her program out of reach of the rest of the ladies.

In fact, if I remember correctly, she held back so much in this competition last year that she finished second.

But I know what you mean. As far as I know the rules do not prevent retired Olympians from competing. Like you could look up and you would be going against Sasha Cohen or somebody.

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It is a bit of an ethical dilemma. Skaters such as Ito should not be banned from competition (given that ridiculous, made-for-TV, USA v. the World-type events no longer exist), yet how does one draw the line in terms of eligibility for adult competitions? I had always thought that adult competitions were only for people (at least in the US) who'd never qualified for senior nationals, or who started relatively late in life. But I don't know, off-hand, how such distinctions could be drawn in a principled way.

I apologize for exploiting a tangent, but I know I'm not the first.

Pepe Nero said:

It is a bit of an ethical dilemma. Skaters such as Ito should not be banned from competition (given that ridiculous, made-for-TV, USA v. the World-type events no longer exist), yet how does one draw the line in terms of eligibility for adult competitions? I had always thought that adult competitions were only for people (at least in the US) who'd never qualified for senior nationals, or who started relatively late in life. But I don't know, off-hand, how such distinctions could be drawn in a principled way.

I apologize for exploiting a tangent, but I know I'm not the first.

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Here's the way I feel about it. The first question is: what is the competition designed to do? Is it to identify the very best performance by the very best skater that the competition can attract, the only qualifier being age, like the PGA seniors tour? Or is the idea to consciously limit the field to competent dilettantes, and allow the best among them to get a little taste of duffers' glory, like a tournament at the local country club?

They are both reasonable and justifiable pursuits, but one should not be mistaken for the other.

I'm sure that the following sentiment has already been expressed by someone somewhere: if I were the best of the (female) duffers, I would derive much greater pleasure in regaling others with the saga of how I was in a knockdown, drag-out with Midori for gold, but was pipped at the post:

"Yeah, so it came down to my final double-toe for the win. Saw out of the corner of my eye that Midori was holding her breath. I really put the fear of God in her, and no mistake, hehe." [the cackle in a suitably knowing and modest tone]

"Got caught in a tiny rut, though. Didn't get it around. But as 'Dori-chan said to me afterwards [this must be mentioned with a casually matter-of-fact stare toward some distant horizon not visible to anyone else. The matter-of-factness of it is key; practice in front of the mirror as necessary], when you get to our level of stuff, sometimes you gotta deal with the rolls of the dice, ya know what I mean?" (Actually, you probably don't know what I mean, you miserable earthbound pudnocker).*



*With apologies to Tom Wolfe

Robeye said:

Here's the way I feel about it. The first question is: what is the competition designed to do? Is it to identify the very best performance by the very best skater that the competition can attract, the only qualifier being age, like the PGA seniors tour? Or is the idea to consciously limit the field to competent dilettantes, and allow the best among them to get a little taste of duffers' glory, like a tournament at the local country club?

They are both reasonable and justifiable pursuits, but one should not be mistaken for the other.

I'm sure that the following sentiment has already been expressed by someone somewhere: if I were the best of the (female) duffers, I would derive much greater pleasure in regaling others with the saga of how I was in a knockdown, drag-out with Midori for gold, but was pipped at the post:

"Yeah, so it came down to my final double-toe for the win. Saw out of the corner of my eye that Midori was holding her breath. I really put the fear of God in her, and no mistake, hehe." [the cackle in a suitably knowing and modest tone]

"Got caught in a tiny rut, though. Didn't get it around. But as 'Dori-chan said to me afterwards [this must be mentioned with a casually matter-of-fact stare toward some distant horizon not visible to anyone else. The matter-of-factness of it is key; practice in front of the mirror as necessary], when you get to our level of stuff, sometimes you gotta deal with the rolls of the dice, ya know what I mean?" (Actually, you probably don't know what I mean, you miserable earthbound pudnocker).*



*With apologies to Tom Wolfe

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Huh?

Pepe Nero said:

It is a bit of an ethical dilemma. Skaters such as Ito should not be banned from competition (given that ridiculous, made-for-TV, USA v. the World-type events no longer exist), yet how does one draw the line in terms of eligibility for adult competitions? I had always thought that adult competitions were only for people (at least in the US) who'd never qualified for senior nationals, or who started relatively late in life. But I don't know, off-hand, how such distinctions could be drawn in a principled way.

I apologize for exploiting a tangent, but I know I'm not the first.

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She was at group Master Elite, which includes Worlds and Nationals participants, so she did not compete with skaters, who started skating in adult age.

So I see no problem at all.

From Announce of Event

The organizers welcome the participation of former elite skaters. In this case appropriate “masters elite” event categories will be added to the competition for such skaters.

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Pepe Nero said:

Huh?

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A bit of a combination of Wolfe's "The Right Stuff" and Thurber's "The Secret Life of Walter Mitty". Intended to show why an older skater without a prior champion's pedigree would not really mind having Midori in her division, as she could dine out forever afterwards on the strength of the stories/lies she could tell about the experience.

Please let me know if further explanations are necessary.

AlexRus said:

She was at group Master Elite, which includes Worlds and Nationals participants, so she did not compete with skaters, who started skating in adult age.

So I see no problem at all.

From Announce of Event

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That's very cool!

Still, there's gotta be a difference between someone who made it through their gold test 20 years ago, or almost won a pewter medal in a national competition, and Midori-freakin'-Ito.

Robeye said:

A bit of a combination of Wolfe's "The Right Stuff" and Thurber's "The Secret Life of Walter Mitty". Intended to show why an older skater without a prior champion's pedigree would not really mind having Midori in her division, as she could dine out forever afterwards on the strength of the stories/lies she could tell about the experience.

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Then there is Jan Calnan, the lady who can say, "Midori Ito thought she could come into my house! I sent her right back out the door!"

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?34557-Adult-Skating-) (scroll down to post 6 by ajjcanada.

sky_fly20 said:

R/T are stagnant, we expected a great transformation helping with Igor but it didn't they were even passed by Z/G at Worlds
so S/B have a chance to medal for bronze and its not impossible Z/G were beaten by first timers S/Z

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R/T passed Z/G by 10 points at Euros. I still think both teams will beat Stepanova/Bukin at Skate Canada. Junior scores aren't quite comparable to senior scores, and S/B barely reached 150 last season, and in their last competition of the season.

Mathman said:

That's very cool!

Still, there's gotta be a difference between someone who made it through their gold test 20 years ago, or almost won a pewter medal in a national competition, and Midori-freakin'-Ito.



Then there is Jan Calnan, the lady who can say, "Midori Ito thought she could come into my house! I sent her right back out the door!"

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?34557-Adult-Skating-) (scroll down to post 6 by ajjcanada.

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Very clever. You just had to spoil the fun by putting up the example of a gracious winner, didn't you?

sky_fly20 said:

R/T are stagnant, we expected a great transformation helping with Igor but it didn't they were even passed by Z/G at Worlds
so S/B have a chance to medal for bronze and its not impossible Z/G were beaten by first timers S/Z

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I/k were surpassed by z/g at worlds too! At least in the fd they did. Russia can't judge by who z/g surpassed at worlds because then they'd throw out I/k too.

dara said:

Does anyone know something about Daleman? is she skating in the JGP again? or why didn't she get a GP assignment?

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I don't know maybe they want to see how Chartrand, Mallet, Seguin, Desanctis and Daleman will doing in summer competition and make a choice after.
or
maybe they keep the spot until Rochette make her decision of making a comeback or not.

Adam Rippon only got one assignment? That's got to hurt.

yelyoh said:

Adam Rippon only got one assignment? That's got to hurt.

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But it's unsurprising. He didn't medal at either of his GPs last season, placed fifth at Nationals, and competed at one small international event in the spring.

coolboogie22 said:

I don't know maybe they want to see how Chartrand, Mallet, Seguin, Desanctis and Daleman will doing in summer competition and make a choice after.
or
maybe they keep the spot until Rochette make her decision of making a comeback or not.

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if Joannie hasn't decided yet, I doubt she will be ready by Skate Canada...

I read too quickly first time around, but on second read, your post is hilarious to me. Thanks for your patience and clarification.

Oh, yes: I think your analysis of how to determine the eligibility conditions at the beginning of your post is exactly right.

Pepe Nero said:

It is a bit of an ethical dilemma. Skaters such as Ito should not be banned from competition (given that ridiculous, made-for-TV, USA v. the World-type events no longer exist), yet how does one draw the line in terms of eligibility for adult competitions? I had always thought that adult competitions were only for people (at least in the US) who'd never qualified for senior nationals, or who started relatively late in life. But I don't know, off-hand, how such distinctions could be drawn in a principled way.

I apologize for exploiting a tangent, but I know I'm not the first.

Click to expand...

There is no ethical delimma. Ito signed up for and skated in the Masters Elite category which is intended for skaters who were high level in their own country and/or World level. It was created to attract skaters like Ito to bring some excitement to O'dorf. There is also a Masters category which is for people who would be classified as Masters Novice/Junior/Senior in the US (so, can do most doubles up to Lutz fairly well, there are a few who have done 2A and a couple men who have presented some triples). If someone didn't feel comfortable with Ito in the group, the could have chosen to skate Masters (non-elite) as the levels at the ISU Adult Competition are self-regulated.

In reality, when some people found out she'd be returning this year (and they are in her age group), they chose to skate up to that category just to be in the group with her (these are people who are Masters level skaters, but wouldn't really classify as "elite" if you read the explanations of the levels). The adult figure skating community is different than the standard track skaters in terms of goals, expectations and what is expected or liked. Surprisingly, while most adults would LOVE to win, there's also a sense of community and commeraderie that a number of judges have remarked upon when they have been assigned to adult competitions for the first time. Because Ito is a lovely person, she's been embraced completely by the world adult figure skating community and no one seems to have a problem with her competing there. In fact, the lady who won the bronze medal posted darn near 100 podium pictures on FB she was so excited to share a podium with her.

Midori only had 3 jumping passes. She was allowed up to 7. She chose to not do any jump combinations. She kept her tech in line with what the top 4 did, and only beat the silver medalist on TES by 0.5 points (but her PCS was still awesome and deservendly so). Two years ago, she decided only a few months in advance to compete and was actually beaten by another lady due to a lack of TES.

If the adult skating community has no issue with it, no one else should.

Pepe Nero said:

I read too quickly first time around, but on second read, your post is hilarious to me. Thanks for your patience and clarification.

Oh, yes: I think your analysis of how to determine the eligibility conditions at the beginning of your post is exactly right.

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Once missed the first time around, any subsequent explications of humor are usually an exercise involving awkwardness on one side, and embarrassment on the other, like approaching a possible partner a second time at a middle school dance.

That our sensibilities, despite the initial lack of success, managed to hit it off highlights, I think, your openness and ease of temper that is far from common, and does you great credit.