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Thread: Plushenko plans to compete in team & individual events in Sochi

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    And if Ten and Javi were in the picture, he wouldn't have a chance to place decently, which is surely below PChan and who knows else, according to SC officers? Party go on!
    How many pages will this Plush page will get with CSG around? 50? 7?
    It's adorable that you feel the need to retort to every comment I make. I am truly in awe and flattered by your obsessiveness... really, I am.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    It does seem like the rules are written in such a way that just like you can't replace a skater during sp and lp you can't replace a skater between team and individual.
    Actually, I think you can have two different skaters doing the LP and the SP in the team event. (Up to two such substitutions total.)

    It will be interesting to see what countries take advantage of that. You would have to have two skaters/teams pretty equal to risk it, I would think. But for instance Canada could send V&M for the short dance and Weaver and Poje for the long to give V&M a little breather. Russia might feel that they have two equally strong ladies.

    Now that I think about it, it is not out of the question that a country might have a short program specialist and a long program specialist. That would be cool. It would add a tiny bit of team strategy, rather than just each person goes separately then tally up the results.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I can read the original article, don't worry. The катание на коньках doesn't mean anything in details in Russian. The whole sport is officially called фигурное катание на коньках. And it surely doesn't mean one of PCS. The Russian term for Skating Skills that is used in RusFed books is Уровень катания for Singles/Pairs and Мастерство катания for Ice Dancing. In conversations/interviews coaches/skaters/fans/media usually use the same Уровень катания, or владениe коньком (Mishin used it when he was talking about Buttle), sometimes скольжениe (культура скольжения). Mishin often puts it even more beautifully in Russian: «катательного» мастерства, высокой культуры катания, мастерства владения коньком. His Russian in general can be quite charming.
    I really adore Mishin's metaphores.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    II hope he won't invest all his energy into the team event, and puts out a solid performance that contributes to Russia's success, and then turns it on in the actual men's event.
    IMHO he should go all out to win the team event. Then go all out to win the individual event.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    IMHO he should go all out to win the team event. Then go all out to win the individual event.
    One would hope for that, but I'm pretty sure that most skaters will be more ambitious technically and go all out in their individual events rather than their team events (since the individual events are more about placement, and not decimating the field with points). And if a skater, like Plushenko, might be potentially injured, it makes sense to not risk injury by going all out in the TE. It's harder in Russia's case because they only have 1 male skater to skate the SP and LP... I could picture Reynolds/Hanyu skating the SP and then Chan/Takahashi skating the LP (or some combination of that). In the LP, PCS is worth more so it makes sense to put a more artistic skater in the LP.

    A medal is at stake, so I assume the skaters will still put forth strong efforts, but I can't picture them going all out in the team event.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    A medal is at stake, so I assume the skaters will still put forth strong efforts, but I can't picture them going all out in the team event.
    Booooo! Show up or stay home.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    One would hope for that, but I'm pretty sure that most skaters will be more ambitious technically and go all out in their individual events rather than their team events (since the individual events are more about placement, and not decimating the field with points). And if a skater, like Plushenko, might be potentially injured, it makes sense to not risk injury by going all out in the TE. It's harder in Russia's case because they only have 1 male skater to skate the SP and LP... I could picture Reynolds/Hanyu skating the SP and then Chan/Takahashi skating the LP (or some combination of that). In the LP, PCS is worth more so it makes sense to put a more artistic skater in the LP.

    A medal is at stake, so I assume the skaters will still put forth strong efforts, but I can't picture them going all out in the team event.
    Actually Plushenko may well be the only who could afford to put all out in team event since he has gold for individual already. Maybe not so much for other skaters.

    But I agree with Mathman, Plushenko may well be go all out for team, and then all out for individual. Why not? He will give whatever he has in his power to maximize the outcome, so CSG, you do not need to worry about how he will pace his strength. It is none of your business.

  8. #38
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    Trankov talked about skipping TE, if no man takes part, but it sounds as if he's unaware that Ru Fed wouldn't let them do that. Or did he mean "send two other pairs if they want, we're all for individual event"? Well OK, he's a rebellious person and sometimes speaks without getting the full information on the matter.

    Can Kim, Fernandez, Zlobina/Sitnikov and some pair skate for a sort of United Nations Team?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    In conversations/interviews coaches/skaters/fans/media usually use the same Уровень катания, or владениe коньком (Mishin used it when he was talking about Buttle), sometimes скольжениe (культура скольжения). Mishin often puts it even more beautifully in Russian: «катательного» мастерства, высокой культуры катания, мастерства владения коньком. His Russian in general can be quite charming.
    I find that interesting. Though I've never heard Mishin talk or read an interview with him (and of course, I don't understand Russian), I've always been fascinated by how his former partner, Moskvina, uses English, with great precision and poetry. I remember, for instance, when Gordeyeva/Grinkov narrowly beat Mishkutenok/Dmitriev for the 1994 OGM (apologies for any misspellings), she explained the results by saying, "Some people prefer lyrics, and others prefer physics" (an expression that is both apt and original in English as it must be in Russian). And when Kazakova, Dmitriev's second partner, had to do a death spiral in the 1998 short program, a weak move for her, and she did it splendidly, they asked Moskvina how she got Kazakova to do the move, and Moskvina said with a totally serious face, "I hypnotized her." I bet she could have done it, too! I wonder whether she and Mishin both have an acute ear for language, whether one of them influenced the other, or whether both came under the strong influence of a third person in their formative years? Whichever way it is, such rich language from a coach adds so much to our view of skating and how it is achieved.

  10. #40
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    I really hope Zhenya will be healthy throughout
    I would hate to see Kovtun compete for the spot with his pop quad in SP and pop quad and fall on Lutz in LP

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Actually, I think you can have two different skaters doing the LP and the SP in the team event. (Up to two such substitutions total.)

    It will be interesting to see what countries take advantage of that. You would have to have two skaters/teams pretty equal to risk it, I would think. But for instance Canada could send V&M for the short dance and Weaver and Poje for the long to give V&M a little breather. Russia might feel that they have two equally strong ladies.

    Now that I think about it, it is not out of the question that a country might have a short program specialist and a long program specialist. That would be cool. It would add a tiny bit of team strategy, rather than just each person goes separately then tally up the results.
    Yes team event has a switching policy in sp to lp but you can't do it in non team things if you have one skater. so because Russia has one man I don't think a new man could do individual if plushenko does team and then has to leave.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I find that interesting. Though I've never heard Mishin talk or read an interview with him (and of course, I don't understand Russian), I've always been fascinated by how his former partner, Moskvina, uses English, with great precision and poetry. I remember, for instance, when Gordeyeva/Grinkov narrowly beat Mishkutenok/Dmitriev for the 1994 OGM (apologies for any misspellings), she explained the results by saying, "Some people prefer lyrics, and others prefer physics" (an expression that is both apt and original in English as it must be in Russian). And when Kazakova, Dmitriev's second partner, had to do a death spiral in the 1998 short program, a weak move for her, and she did it splendidly, they asked Moskvina how she got Kazakova to do the move, and Moskvina said with a totally serious face, "I hypnotized her." I bet she could have done it, too! I wonder whether she and Mishin both have an acute ear for language, whether one of them influenced the other, or whether both came under the strong influence of a third person in their formative years? Whichever way it is, such rich language from a coach adds so much to our view of skating and how it is achieved.
    Oh yes, I love them both! My fave quote from Tamara is then at Worlds2012 all Russian pairs had a fall in the SP because of the male partners, she said "Men, hold your women!" And now I see Sasha gets that speaking style of hers, like when he said "I plan to beat myself on the head with a stick, every morning". And Yuko gave that hilariously polite answer about Sasha's new hairstyle, bravo!
    I guess when you coach can express the idea brightly, it makes things easier to understand, especially the artistic side. Mishin loooves talking about artistic side.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    Actually Plushenko may well be the only who could afford to put all out in team event since he has gold for individual already. Maybe not so much for other skaters.
    Yes. In addition, he has a better chance of gold in the team than in the individual because they will win definitely pairs and should be in the top 3 in dance, men and (maybe) ladies if they skate all well.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    Actually Plushenko may well be the only who could afford to put all out in team event since he has gold for individual already. Maybe not so much for other skaters.

    But I agree with Mathman, Plushenko may well be go all out for team, and then all out for individual. Why not? He will give whatever he has in his power to maximize the outcome, so CSG, you do not need to worry about how he will pace his strength. It is none of your business.
    I don't picture Plushenko doing 2 quads and 2 triple axels in the team event, just as I don't picture Chan attempting his maximum difficulty or Hanyu attempting 3 quads (especially with his asthma) or Aaron attempting 3 quads in the team event. Perhaps you're right in that because Plushenko already has an individual gold and he has a better shot to win a medal in the team event than individually he might actually go all out in the team event.

    But particularly for a skater who has to do both the SP and LP, you would imagine they would budget their strength towards the event they want to be more successful in. You see it in gymnastics where in team events gymnasts will not take the highest risk and "save" their difficulty and risk for their individual events, where difficulty is more important that being consistently great as a team. With B/S and V/T likely doing very well in ice dance and pairs, and with a decent performance by the Russian girls, Plushenko (or whichever man makes it to Sochi) just needs to place in the top half of the men for a guaranteed medal. Of course, with it being in Sochi, maybe the Russian team wants the gold just a little bit more than the other teams, and that could translate into better performances.

    Ideally, everyone puts forth their best effort in all parts of the competition, particularly at the Olympics. But it's naive to think that skaters aren't coming up with game plans about how they will perform in the Team and Individual events. I'm anticipating that if we look at the base values going from the team event to the individual events we'll see higher BV and more level 3's and 4's in the individual events.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Booooo! Show up or stay home.
    Hah, don't get me wrong, I want this! But I just don't think it'll happen.

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